6494 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

http://social.biowar...6070/33#8223009

and then you rebutt yourself here

http://social.biowar...6070/34#8230811


The problem is you put thompson family into the quote,when you really quoted yourself.

You do it more then you think.

I quoted him qouting me (and his reply).There's a missing quote tag there...

Sheesh, talk about reading compreension faliue.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...



I quoted him qouting me (and his reply).There's a missing quote tag there...

Sheesh, talk about reading compreension faliue.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

111987 wrote...

What I don't understand about these haters/nit pickers is...do you analyze every game with this much detail and with this negative/skeptical of an eye? Cause if you did, you would never enjoy any game...which defeats the purpose of playing video games.

I never set out to nitpick games, but if something jumps out at me and starts bothering me it's impossible to ignore.

For ME2 the main thing I noticed the first time through was that both "twists" in teh game fell flat on their face and at the end I realized little had been accomplished as far as the main plot goes.

The Collectors being Protheans didn't mean much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

The Collectors building a human Reaper didn't change much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

Contrast this to the revelation that Sovereign actually IS a Reaper and Saren is just a puppet, that the mass relays are NOT Prothean technology but instead Reaper technology left for us to find.

Then recall learning that the Citadel is a trap. These things together totally changed the nature of the problem for the protagonists. All of a sudden our situation became more dire and were in a lot more peril.

ME2 doesn't have anything like this. None of the 'revelations' change anything.

It's not like Luke learning that Vader is his father. That changed things because it made Luke's quest a lot harder and more personal for him. It also implied greater danger by depicting one possible fate for him.

There's no ME2 equivalent in the main plot. Outside the main plot there is a nice series of twists and those are the Heretic/orthodox geth split and the plans for war by the quarians. Those were the most interesting and dramatic parts of the game for me. Those are what I am most eager to see play out in ME3.

Well said, Saphra, I agree on pretty much all of that...

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 03 septembre 2011 - 11:15 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Alocormin wrote...

That said.  I don't really like smudboy.  Considering the things he says about people who disagree with him openly, can't say I owe him any respect.  I do prefer to be respectful towards people, no matter my distaste for anything they do or say.

If I were to quit talking to poepel who can occcasionaly be rude...I wouldn't be talking to anyone ever again.

We're all guilty of it occasionally. Me, squiddy, smudboy...everyone.

[SpiffySquee]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

That said.  I don't really like smudboy.  Considering the things he says about people who disagree with him openly, can't say I owe him any respect.  I do prefer to be respectful towards people, no matter my distaste for anything they do or say.

If I were to quit talking to poepel who can occcasionaly be rude...I wouldn't be talking to anyone ever again.

We're all guilty of it occasionally. Me, squiddy, smudboy...everyone.

There is a difference between saying something rude about an argument or the way someone said something, and personally insulting or attacking someone. That is a very easy line not to cross, but Smud crosses it all the time. Way too many people here do, including you. While I have never seen you insult someone who did not try to insult you first, I would like to think people know how to be mature about debates instead of falling to the same immature level. I have said it a hundred times; it is ok to attack an argument or the presentation of the argument, but it is not ok to attack the person behind it. If people on this forum could learn this, it would be a much more civil place.

[Kaiser Shepard]

I fail to see how Smudboy's rude...

[Iakus]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I never set out to nitpick games, but if something jumps out at me and starts bothering me it's impossible to ignore.

For ME2 the main thing I noticed the first time through was that both "twists" in teh game fell flat on their face and at the end I realized little had been accomplished as far as the main plot goes.

The Collectors being Protheans didn't mean much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

The Collectors building a human Reaper didn't change much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

Contrast this to the revelation that Sovereign actually IS a Reaper and Saren is just a puppet, that the mass relays are NOT Prothean technology but instead Reaper technology left for us to find.

Then recall learning that the Citadel is a trap. These things together totally changed the nature of the problem for the protagonists. All of a sudden our situation became more dire and were in a lot more peril.

ME2 doesn't have anything like this. None of the 'revelations' change anything.

It's not like Luke learning that Vader is his father. That changed things because it made Luke's quest a lot harder and more personal for him. It also implied greater danger by depicting one possible fate for him.

There's no ME2 equivalent in the main plot. Outside the main plot there is a nice series of twists and those are the Heretic/orthodox geth split and the plans for war by the quarians. Those were the most interesting and dramatic parts of the game for me. Those are what I am most eager to see play out in ME3.

Very well said.

[SpiffySquee]

iakus wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I never set out to nitpick games, but if something jumps out at me and starts bothering me it's impossible to ignore.

For ME2 the main thing I noticed the first time through was that both "twists" in teh game fell flat on their face and at the end I realized little had been accomplished as far as the main plot goes.

The Collectors being Protheans didn't mean much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

The Collectors building a human Reaper didn't change much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

Contrast this to the revelation that Sovereign actually IS a Reaper and Saren is just a puppet, that the mass relays are NOT Prothean technology but instead Reaper technology left for us to find.

Then recall learning that the Citadel is a trap. These things together totally changed the nature of the problem for the protagonists. All of a sudden our situation became more dire and were in a lot more peril.

ME2 doesn't have anything like this. None of the 'revelations' change anything.

It's not like Luke learning that Vader is his father. That changed things because it made Luke's quest a lot harder and more personal for him. It also implied greater danger by depicting one possible fate for him.

There's no ME2 equivalent in the main plot. Outside the main plot there is a nice series of twists and those are the Heretic/orthodox geth split and the plans for war by the quarians. Those were the most interesting and dramatic parts of the game for me. Those are what I am most eager to see play out in ME3.

Very well said.

I actually agree too. Never thought about it like that before, SD makes a damn good point.

[Thompson family]

I quoted him qouting me (and his reply).There's a missing quote tag there...

Sheesh, talk about reading compreension faliue.

That was fun. Let's do it again.

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I never set out to nitpick games, but if something jumps out at me and starts bothering me it's impossible to ignore.

For ME2 the main thing I noticed the first time through was that both "twists" in teh game fell flat on their face and at the end I realized little had been accomplished as far as the main plot goes.

The Collectors being Protheans didn't mean much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

The Collectors building a human Reaper didn't change much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

Contrast this to the revelation that Sovereign actually IS a Reaper and Saren is just a puppet, that the mass relays are NOT Prothean technology but instead Reaper technology left for us to find.

Then recall learning that the Citadel is a trap. These things together totally changed the nature of the problem for the protagonists. All of a sudden our situation became more dire and were in a lot more peril.

ME2 doesn't have anything like this. None of the 'revelations' change anything.

It's not like Luke learning that Vader is his father. That changed things because it made Luke's quest a lot harder and more personal for him. It also implied greater danger by depicting one possible fate for him.

There's no ME2 equivalent in the main plot. Outside the main plot there is a nice series of twists and those are the Heretic/orthodox geth split and the plans for war by the quarians. Those were the most interesting and dramatic parts of the game for me. Those are what I am most eager to see play out in ME3.

That was an excellent post, SD.

[GunMoth]

I don't see everyone's issue with this guy. He brings up valid points - but I don't think his solution is always correct. He also uses satire to illustrate his point. The persona he uses is quite ornery - similar to Yahtzee from "Zero Punctuation". Its a marketing technique. It makes him more "memorable". Appreciating people like him really all comes down to personal taste. Some people CANNOT handle satire - especially when its about something they love.

I was laughing and nodding my head during the character analysis. I love (and have huge respect for the writers at Bioware) but I had a lot of problems with some of the characters in ME2. Maybe my issues have more to do with the characters being "the deadliest" or "the _____est" people in the galaxy. They felt over dramatic compared to Ashley Williams, or Wrex. (Not because Wrex was "badass" in ME1. He has strong opinions but feels like he has no place in his society because of the mentality the Krogan people have etc. etc. Easy to empathize with. That is what is truly important.)

Also, people saying he should do something more constructive with his time aren't realizing the purpose of critique - even with something as "trivial" as a video game. Unlike most games, the Mass Effect series takes pride in its cinematic narrative. If we sit around without critiquing or not backing up our points with examples (artistic principles / writing techniques that have been developed through out history) then the industry will never move forward. (That is, if the devs truly wish to consider opinions like these)

[Killjoy Cutter]

Regarding the shuttle and all the team-members, what's more insulting to your intelligence? That on one contrivance mission, the whole team had to go, or that on every actual mission, only Shep and two friends can go?

[GunMoth]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Regarding the shuttle and all the team-members, what's more insulting to your intelligence? That on one contrivance mission, the whole team had to go, or that on every actual mission, only Shep and two friends can go?

>Reads this post
>Mind has just been blown

[Kingthlayer]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Sometimes I can't make it 30 seconds into a smudboy video.

I have to give you props for making it 30 seconds.  I think 10 seconds is the longest I ever went listening to his voice.

I don't know how anyone can watch/listen to those videos for hours.

[Whatever42]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I never set out to nitpick games, but if something jumps out at me and starts bothering me it's impossible to ignore.

For ME2 the main thing I noticed the first time through was that both "twists" in teh game fell flat on their face and at the end I realized little had been accomplished as far as the main plot goes.

The Collectors being Protheans didn't mean much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

The Collectors building a human Reaper didn't change much. It didn't change the nature of the fight.

Contrast this to the revelation that Sovereign actually IS a Reaper and Saren is just a puppet, that the mass relays are NOT Prothean technology but instead Reaper technology left for us to find.

Then recall learning that the Citadel is a trap. These things together totally changed the nature of the problem for the protagonists. All of a sudden our situation became more dire and were in a lot more peril.

ME2 doesn't have anything like this. None of the 'revelations' change anything.

It's not like Luke learning that Vader is his father. That changed things because it made Luke's quest a lot harder and more personal for him. It also implied greater danger by depicting one possible fate for him.

There's no ME2 equivalent in the main plot. Outside the main plot there is a nice series of twists and those are the Heretic/orthodox geth split and the plans for war by the quarians. Those were the most interesting and dramatic parts of the game for me. Those are what I am most eager to see play out in ME3.

Totally agree. But I don't think this is nitpicking. 

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 04 septembre 2011 - 12:57 .

[100k]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Sometimes I can't make it 30 seconds into a smudboy video.

I have to give you props for making it 30 seconds.  I think 10 seconds is the longest I ever went listening to his voice.

I don't know how anyone can watch/listen to those videos for hours.

And yet it probably took you nearly the same amount of time to post those replies in this thread. 

So tell us, why are you here?

[VaultingFrog]

I still profess that these "reviews" if you can call them that are worth about as much as my spit on ebay (worth nothing to be exact). His/her experience will always be different from mine and we will always view things differently even if only slightly. This is to be expected as we are two different people. Thus I put no stock in any reviews of any sort for any product. Unless I try it myself I dont know how it will be nor if I like it or not.

I am not sure why nobody else is able to think this way...

[Whatever42]

VaultingFrog wrote...

I still profess that these "reviews" if you can call them that are worth about as much as my spit on ebay (worth nothing to be exact). His/her experience will always be different from mine and we will always view things differently even if only slightly. This is to be expected as we are two different people. Thus I put no stock in any reviews of any sort for any product. Unless I try it myself I dont know how it will be nor if I like it or not.

I am not sure why nobody else is able to think this way...

Oh, no minds are being changed here. At least not often. It's just a game played a little too roughly.

One side points out a "plot hole" and the other side attempts to explain it. It's actually an educational exercise, at least for me. Sometimes it's easy to defend the plot, because the other side is seriously over-reaching. Sometimes it can be difficult. Sometimes you don't even try because you know they're right. A dozen crew piling onto the shuttle was lazy. They could have at least hung a lantern on it.

I dislike Smud because 1) he's ridiculously long winded and buried us in pages of prose that actually had very little argument and 2) he was generally rude. But mostly 1. I still don't know why a few people find him clever. We have some legimately clever "haters" here but they're not rude and condescending so not as popular.

[100k]

GunMoth wrote...

Also, people saying he should do something more constructive with his time aren't realizing the purpose of critique - even with something as "trivial" as a video game. Unlike most games, the Mass Effect series takes pride in its cinematic narrative. If we sit around without critiquing or not backing up our points with examples (artistic principles / writing techniques that have been developed through out history) then the industry will never move forward. (That is, if the devs truly wish to consider opinions like these)

God damnit, this! QFT!

Look, I know a lot of you guys just think "its a game, it's just supposed to entertain me on the weekend -- I don't want to take it seriously or become emotionally/mentally drawn into it" etc etc. But there are some of us who WANT games to become more than just benign entertainment! 

Personally, I REALLY want to see the Godfather equivalent of gaming come out soon. Oh, I'd argue that we've come relatively close in recent years, but no game has yet quite reached that level of "you-must-play-this-because-it's-fantastically put together". We've had games that are "must plays" because they are well made or popular, but we've still got a little way to go before we reach the universally acclaimed "god tier" title. 

Improvement often involves criticism. Don't take criticism to equal "this = bad". Instead, take it to mean "this needs to be improved". Without people examining what most people overlook, things don't improve. And guess what? A LOT of people, even game critics, are really hoping for that one game that defines the entire genre. That one game that makes people 60+ years old stop thinking of video games as...toys. I want that day to come. I know others do too. Maybe many of you don't care one way or the other (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specifically), but evalutating the failings of a game's plot isn't cause for you to get up in arms.

Oh, and yes, Smudboy does essentially say "ME2 = bad". But he does that mainly because he hated how the tightly knit first part of the series (ME1) was cast aside for a flashier, less connected, less sensible less polished product. You saw what happened to DA2. Do you really care so little for ME that you're willing to let that happen again? Take pride in the fact that you can enjoy a game like ME2, but also realize that it has its fair share of failings. This doesn't make you anti-Bioware. 

[Whatever42]

@100k, SD's critique I think is a useful one for improving ME3.

But smud is not useful because he buries any good points in mountains of useless overreaching.

Watching Star Wars and then complaining that it's not the Godfather is not a useful exercise.

[100k]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

@100k, SD's critique I think is a useful one for improving ME3.

But smud is not useful because he buries any good points in mountains of useless overreaching.

Watching Star Wars and then complaining that it's not the Godfather is not a useful exercise.

Yes, but complaining that Godfather III isn't half the film that Godfather I or II is isn't such an overreach -- considering that they're all part of the same series.

[GunMoth]

My statement is probably misleading - I don't think all of his points are viable / should be used to "fix" the problems in ME2 because of the way constructing a narrative for a video game works (I've never done it personally, but I understand that its a daunting task to find ways to incorporate dialog trees, LIs and side characters into the main story arch).

He articulates himself well, regardless of overacting in some instances.

But like I said before, this is an example of satire. He approaches the subject sarcastically in order to make himself more memorable/marketable. All of his positive points are absolutely amazing, and he was able to articulate what bothered me about certain characters. Jacob and his loyalty mission made my brain explode. None of it made any logical sense in my brain - and he laid it out in an organized fashion.


Once again: NOT saying his reviews are fantastic!111 but he's pretty well educated when it comes to plot devices and narratives. I have yet to watch his section on the gameplay. I'm a bit hesitant. :x


EDIT: Sorry if my sentence structure is awful. I'm actually playing ME2, chipping away old nail polish, watching these videos, and responding to this thread all at once. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 04 septembre 2011 - 01:50 .

[GunMoth]

I also loved his bit on Samara - since she is one of my favorite characters.

[Whatever42]

100k wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

@100k, SD's critique I think is a useful one for improving ME3.

But smud is not useful because he buries any good points in mountains of useless overreaching.

Watching Star Wars and then complaining that it's not the Godfather is not a useful exercise.

Yes, but complaining that Godfather III isn't half the film that Godfather I or II is isn't such an overreach -- considering that they're all part of the same series.

True, that's why I thought SD's criticism was valid and I agree with it. 

But ME1 was not the most flawless piece of literature in history. We had cliche villain monologues, super hero death traps, characters that were more codex than personality, lots of weak missions, etc. It wasn't Godfather I or II. It was space opera derived from cheesy 80s space opera, right down the music. And it was great but it wasn't more than what it was.