759 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggy]

13th Pillar wrote...

My Shepard is a devout Pastafarian, a strong proselytizer of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, whom is forever guarded against the Reapers by firm belief in His Noodliness.

Can I get a Ramen?

RAmen indeed. And may you all be touched by His noodly appendage.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Em23 wrote...

13th Pillar wrote...

My Shepard is a devout Pastafarian, a strong proselytizer of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, whom is forever guarded against the Reapers by firm belief in His Noodliness.

Can I get a Ramen?

RAmen indeed. And may you all be touched by His noodly appendage.

*is putting on Pirate outfit*
Indeed.

[Wereparrot]

I think that something similar to Nelson's prayer before the Battle of Trafalgar would be nice.

[The Dubious]

Chairchucker wrote...

The Dubious wrote...

Personally, religion is to sensitive of a subject to be added- adding it as an option would be fine, but keep in mind other people of the various different religions, maybe they'd like to use the "pray option" but it isn't "their" religion- maybe they want to pray to Ganesha instead of the "One". it would probably work better if say- the universal religion for humans was a combination of various religions.

like "The First Amalgamated Church" from Futurama, and there doesn't seem to be a definite deity. this could help eliminate favoritism and promotion towards any one religion- just my personal opinion- it's hard to get offended by a make-believe religion (though i image a very small handful will manage to find something to whine about).

"prayer" should definitely be an option- but if Bioware had any desire to add this feature they should come up with something fair for relatively anyone who is in-fact faithful.

my-two-cents, in the slot.

If we first posit that people will be offended that options for expressing a belief in a certain religion are available and their own personal religion is not, would it be too much of a stretch to suggest that some may be offended by the suggestion that their religion is similar enough to another to become 'amalgamated'? The majority of major world religions are completely mutually exclusive from each other, combining them would not be a good idea in my opinion.

i see your point.
in a perfect world... one would think that faith, regardless of religion could be viewed as equals and somthing to be marvelled at- the world would be far more peaceful i think... unfortunately realtiy hits hard.
 
i suppose it depends though, this sort of conundrum reminds of the one argument that occasion pop's up- about the scarcity of "black" people (or any other enthic group really) present in an artificial environment, there is typically a complaint concerning a lack of- or somthing to that extent. unfortunately i have also read compaints in which an atrificial environment has included an abundance of "colored" folk- in which they are killed for some reason- and viewers/players see as some sort of stantment- even though that wasn't the intent.

well the 'amalgated' part was just a silly reference to Futurama's way of handling the Earthian 'domient' religion- fabricated, they do not show "ceremonies" nor any reigning deity, just something in the background- again it's hard to be offended by something made up. 

religion is all to sensitive which is why i think they shouldn't include it at all untimately- simply because it is unfair to the various clashes of faiths. 
just as some people would like to see same-sex relationship in artifical environments i'm sure there are those out there who would like to see their own faith included. 

[Wereparrot]

The Dubious wrote...

Chairchucker wrote...

The Dubious wrote...

Personally, religion is to sensitive of a subject to be added- adding it as an option would be fine, but keep in mind other people of the various different religions, maybe they'd like to use the "pray option" but it isn't "their" religion- maybe they want to pray to Ganesha instead of the "One". it would probably work better if say- the universal religion for humans was a combination of various religions.

like "The First Amalgamated Church" from Futurama, and there doesn't seem to be a definite deity. this could help eliminate favoritism and promotion towards any one religion- just my personal opinion- it's hard to get offended by a make-believe religion (though i image a very small handful will manage to find something to whine about).

"prayer" should definitely be an option- but if Bioware had any desire to add this feature they should come up with something fair for relatively anyone who is in-fact faithful.

my-two-cents, in the slot.

If we first posit that people will be offended that options for expressing a belief in a certain religion are available and their own personal religion is not, would it be too much of a stretch to suggest that some may be offended by the suggestion that their religion is similar enough to another to become 'amalgamated'? The majority of major world religions are completely mutually exclusive from each other, combining them would not be a good idea in my opinion.

i see your point.
in a perfect world... one would think that faith, regardless of religion could be viewed as equals and somthing to be marvelled at- the world would be far more peaceful i think... unfortunately realtiy hits hard.
 
i suppose it depends though, this sort of conundrum reminds of the one argument that occasion pop's up- about the scarcity of "black" people (or any other enthic group really) present in an artificial environment, there is typically a complaint concerning a lack of- or somthing to that extent. unfortunately i have also read compaints in which an atrificial environment has included an abundance of "colored" folk- in which they are killed for some reason- and viewers/players see as some sort of stantment- even though that wasn't the intent.

well the 'amalgated' part was just a silly reference to Futurama's way of handling the Earthian 'domient' religion- fabricated, they do not show "ceremonies" nor any reigning deity, just something in the background- again it's hard to be offended by something made up. 

religion is all to sensitive which is why i think they shouldn't include it at all untimately- simply because it is unfair to the various clashes of faiths. 
just as some people would like to see same-sex relationship in artifical environments i'm sure there are those out there who would like to see their own faith included. 

I dunno. The title 'God' is not actually a name, so Shephard could be praying as subscribing to any one of the Abrahamic religions. Shepard doesn't have to invoke the actual name of God, as it is different in all three of the said religions.

Modifié par Wereparrot, 29 août 2011 - 10:45 .

[The Dubious]

Wereparrot wrote...

The Dubious wrote...

Chairchucker wrote...

The Dubious wrote...

Personally, religion is to sensitive of a subject to be added- adding it as an option would be fine, but keep in mind other people of the various different religions, maybe they'd like to use the "pray option" but it isn't "their" religion- maybe they want to pray to Ganesha instead of the "One". it would probably work better if say- the universal religion for humans was a combination of various religions.

like "The First Amalgamated Church" from Futurama, and there doesn't seem to be a definite deity. this could help eliminate favoritism and promotion towards any one religion- just my personal opinion- it's hard to get offended by a make-believe religion (though i image a very small handful will manage to find something to whine about).

"prayer" should definitely be an option- but if Bioware had any desire to add this feature they should come up with something fair for relatively anyone who is in-fact faithful.

my-two-cents, in the slot.

If we first posit that people will be offended that options for expressing a belief in a certain religion are available and their own personal religion is not, would it be too much of a stretch to suggest that some may be offended by the suggestion that their religion is similar enough to another to become 'amalgamated'? The majority of major world religions are completely mutually exclusive from each other, combining them would not be a good idea in my opinion.

i see your point.
in a perfect world... one would think that faith, regardless of religion could be viewed as equals and somthing to be marvelled at- the world would be far more peaceful i think... unfortunately realtiy hits hard.
 
i suppose it depends though, this sort of conundrum reminds of the one argument that occasion pop's up- about the scarcity of "black" people (or any other enthic group really) present in an artificial environment, there is typically a complaint concerning a lack of- or somthing to that extent. unfortunately i have also read compaints in which an atrificial environment has included an abundance of "colored" folk- in which they are killed for some reason- and viewers/players see as some sort of stantment- even though that wasn't the intent.

well the 'amalgated' part was just a silly reference to Futurama's way of handling the Earthian 'domient' religion- fabricated, they do not show "ceremonies" nor any reigning deity, just something in the background- again it's hard to be offended by something made up. 

religion is all to sensitive which is why i think they shouldn't include it at all untimately- simply because it is unfair to the various clashes of faiths. 
just as some people would like to see same-sex relationship in artifical environments i'm sure there are those out there who would like to see their own faith included. 

I dunno. The title 'God' is not actually a name, so Shephard could be praying as subscribing to any one of the Abrahamic religions. Shepard doesn't have to invoke the actual name of God, as it is different in all three of the said religions.

that isn't necesarrily the problem- even if Shepherd does not identify a specific 'name' his mannerism and behavior during said 'prayer' would identify what religion Bioware may be referring to. 

and i'm not reffering solely to the abscent presence of Abramhamic religions either- Ganesha for isntance is Hinduism, again what if i wanted to pray to Ganesha (example only) maybe there is a unique twist to said sort of prayer ritual.
prayer rituals differ and are unique to their respective faiths. 

however generalizing, i agree, not inidentifying a specific god, God, etc. would be key to avoid direct offense. but- that also means sacrificing the individualism of Shepherd 'supposed' faith (be it Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Buhhdist- whatever in-between, etc.), since it would be a generic scene i would imagine. 


 

[whywhywhywhy]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

neo7732 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

neo7732 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

neo7732 wrote...

it's nice to see this thread is still avoiding the pink elephants in the room.

And those are....?

trying to validate practice of religion in a game / ealier on it was about  homosexuality  in a video game....if you hadnt picked up on the thread name yet for example.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. The topic is praying in ME3, or something akin to praying, but you feel it should be on why there is religion in ME3? if you'll look back to the first few pages a codex entry was quoted that showed the religions of various species such as the turians. It's not just humans.

And to answer specifically the question of validating practice of religion in the game, well I guess if you don't want to role-play, you don't have to. Some do, however.

No, I wasnt clear.  I can understand in game culture pertainging to certain species.  What isnt cool is adding prayer implimenting the actual practice of religion in a video game. 

I'm about to head out, but...

Why not?

What does making a bunch of pixels hump another bunch of pixels do for the player? Hopefully, nothing:P. More seriously, however, there is not reason for it. Mass Effect is action.

...action RPG, that is. That means you're playing a role, and that role might include falling in love with someone, or just a quick hop in the sack, etc. Why, then, cannot those who feel the role their Shepard occupies has religious leanings be denied the chance to display that? How is it any different?

The only difference is that religion makes everybody uncomfortable and defensive. But is that a reason that it should not be broached? It really isn't fair to say something controversial like s/s can be added (in the last game of a trilogy, with a moderate-to-high chance of making character's of one particular leaning into character's of dual leanings, for a relatively small minority) and implementation of religion [already broached in the game by the main character, and mentioned many multiple times by other characters (Ashley, Mordin, Thane) in both games] shouldn't be there.

Cheers, hope this topic is still trundling along on the right tracks when I return.

Still here
I absolutely agree with you. 

@everyone else.
I respect people's right to believe their is no God though I firmly disagree with with them as I know better however free will is free will do with it as you please.  I do find it funny that the opposition only wants to stop "Human spiritual belief" from being added to the game.  When so many Aliens have demonstrated belief in their version of God or a God.  Why isn't that just as offensive ?  Did any of you speak out on the Ash conversation in the first game ?  No ?  Then why now ?  If s/s can be implemented and not bother me as BW and s/s supporter claim so can spirituality.

[Ghost Warrior]

Maybe BioWare should just make up a new religion. I think this is all about whether you see Shepard as someone who believes in getting things done purely by his own actions or whether he is also spiritual man who asks for help from some higher force,a man who believes in something bigger than himself. Does it really matter what religion it is? It's almost 200 year in the future,BioWare can easily invent some new religion and say that like 97% of humanity united under it or something. I think something about religion was mentioned in Revelation.

[ZenJestr]

I still think that the topic of faith should come up if you talk to Ashley and/or Thane and it should be touched on there. Prayer is too specific a ritual to keep it ambiguous, while just talking about it leaves room for interpretation. If Shepard DOES pray it should be off-screen with Shepard mentioning that "he has said his prayers" or whatever (if your Shep is a theist)...that way you don't alienate any theistic group by showing them the "wrong" way to pray.

[Wereparrot]

ZenJestr wrote...

I still think that the topic of faith should come up if you talk to Ashley and/or Thane

I agree with this. I think that since the faith of certain characters has already been established it would be an opportunity missed if Bioware failed to expand on it in ME3.

[tenshi_no_hone]

What if you were given the chance to join Ashley in a prayer or something? She as a character clerly has a specific faith, and the choice element becomes how you deal with that. Then it doesn't matter that not every faith is included, because it's how you respond to one held by one of the characters.

If you want you could apply this to a couple of the fictitious ones as well, like Thane's. Make it about NPC interaction AND player choice and there shouldn't be a problem right?

[Wereparrot]

The Dubious wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

The Dubious wrote...

Chairchucker wrote...

The Dubious wrote...

Personally, religion is to sensitive of a subject to be added- adding it as an option would be fine, but keep in mind other people of the various different religions, maybe they'd like to use the "pray option" but it isn't "their" religion- maybe they want to pray to Ganesha instead of the "One". it would probably work better if say- the universal religion for humans was a combination of various religions.

like "The First Amalgamated Church" from Futurama, and there doesn't seem to be a definite deity. this could help eliminate favoritism and promotion towards any one religion- just my personal opinion- it's hard to get offended by a make-believe religion (though i image a very small handful will manage to find something to whine about).

"prayer" should definitely be an option- but if Bioware had any desire to add this feature they should come up with something fair for relatively anyone who is in-fact faithful.

my-two-cents, in the slot.

If we first posit that people will be offended that options for expressing a belief in a certain religion are available and their own personal religion is not, would it be too much of a stretch to suggest that some may be offended by the suggestion that their religion is similar enough to another to become 'amalgamated'? The majority of major world religions are completely mutually exclusive from each other, combining them would not be a good idea in my opinion.

i see your point.
in a perfect world... one would think that faith, regardless of religion could be viewed as equals and somthing to be marvelled at- the world would be far more peaceful i think... unfortunately realtiy hits hard.
 
i suppose it depends though, this sort of conundrum reminds of the one argument that occasion pop's up- about the scarcity of "black" people (or any other enthic group really) present in an artificial environment, there is typically a complaint concerning a lack of- or somthing to that extent. unfortunately i have also read compaints in which an atrificial environment has included an abundance of "colored" folk- in which they are killed for some reason- and viewers/players see as some sort of stantment- even though that wasn't the intent.

well the 'amalgated' part was just a silly reference to Futurama's way of handling the Earthian 'domient' religion- fabricated, they do not show "ceremonies" nor any reigning deity, just something in the background- again it's hard to be offended by something made up. 

religion is all to sensitive which is why i think they shouldn't include it at all untimately- simply because it is unfair to the various clashes of faiths. 
just as some people would like to see same-sex relationship in artifical environments i'm sure there are those out there who would like to see their own faith included. 

I dunno. The title 'God' is not actually a name, so Shephard could be praying as subscribing to any one of the Abrahamic religions. Shepard doesn't have to invoke the actual name of God, as it is different in all three of the said religions.

that isn't necesarrily the problem- even if Shepherd does not identify a specific 'name' his mannerism and behavior during said 'prayer' would identify what religion Bioware may be referring to. 

and i'm not reffering solely to the abscent presence of Abramhamic religions either- Ganesha for isntance is Hinduism, again what if i wanted to pray to Ganesha (example only) maybe there is a unique twist to said sort of prayer ritual.
prayer rituals differ and are unique to their respective faiths. 

however generalizing, i agree, not inidentifying a specific god, God, etc. would be key to avoid direct offense. but- that also means sacrificing the individualism of Shepherd 'supposed' faith (be it Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Buhhdist- whatever in-between, etc.), since it would be a generic scene i would imagine. 


 

I see the point about the diversity of religious beliefs but I don't see why all religious beliefs can't be encompassed in a simple 'Lord, grant me victory'. It doesn't have to be a long prayer with all the ceremonies of specific faiths. Or if Shephard romanced Ashley and confirmed his own belief in God he could just say to her as an alternative to or addition to prayer, 'if you or I die I'll see you in heaven'. 

Modifié par Wereparrot, 29 août 2011 - 01:38 .

[Wereparrot]

tenshi_no_hone wrote...

What if you were given the chance to join Ashley in a prayer or something? She as a character clerly has a specific faith, and the choice element becomes how you deal with that. Then it doesn't matter that not every faith is included, because it's how you respond to one held by one of the characters.

If you want you could apply this to a couple of the fictitious ones as well, like Thane's. Make it about NPC interaction AND player choice and there shouldn't be a problem right?

I would support this.

[King Minos]

No, I'm an atheist and I hate religion. My opinion, just too many conflicting views and it only causes trouble, hate and violence, we do enough of that ourselves without religion being involved.

[Whatever42]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Em23 wrote...

13th Pillar wrote...

My Shepard is a devout Pastafarian, a strong proselytizer of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, whom is forever guarded against the Reapers by firm belief in His Noodliness.

Can I get a Ramen?

RAmen indeed. And may you all be touched by His noodly appendage.

*is putting on Pirate outfit*
Indeed.

Heretic. True Pastafarians wear ninja outfits. I... uh... saw it in a vision. 

[MaaZeus]

King Minos wrote...

No, I'm an atheist and I hate religion. My opinion, just too many conflicting views and it only causes trouble, hate and violence, we do enough of that ourselves without religion being involved.

It is we humans who do all the violence because humans are naturally douchebags not worthy of the ground we fall on. Religion is merely an excuse amongst many, but even without it we will still find a way to be dicks.

Misanthropy FTW.


To the topic, yeah I think it would be cool idea to have religious Shepard IF player wants. Since there are so many different religions, it must be left ambiguous of what and how Shepard prays. I liked the idea when someone said that Shepard may be caught being alone doing nothing while going to important mission.

Something like NPC asks "Whatcha doing" and Shepard could answer that "Just thinking" or "Praying". And thats that. It can be expanded if NPC states that s/he didnt know Shepard was religious, to what Shepard can answer a serious answer or just jokingly "neither did I". If player romances Ashley, this can be expanded even further if needed.

Nothing more, nothing less, you get the idea. Details are left ambiguous and all that is concluded is that your Shepard is definetly religious, or he MAY not be. Even if he would be "just thinking" he may still be religious if you as a player like to think so, but anyway...

Modifié par MaaZeus, 29 août 2011 - 03:44 .

[Davie McG]

MaaZeus wrote...

King Minos wrote...

No, I'm an atheist and I hate religion. My opinion, just too many conflicting views and it only causes trouble, hate and violence, we do enough of that ourselves without religion being involved.

It is we humans who do all the violence because humans are naturally douchebags not worthy of the ground we fall on. Religion is merely an excuse amongst many, but even without it we will still find a way to be dicks.

Misanthropy FTW.


To the topic, yeah I think it would be cool idea to have religious Shepard IF player wants. Since there are so many different religions, it must be left ambiguous of what and how Shepard prays. I liked the idea when someone said that Shepard may be caught being alone doing nothing while going to important mission.

Something like NPC asks "Whatcha doing" and Shepard could answer that "Just thinking" or "Praying". And thats that. It can be expanded if NPC states that s/he didnt know Shepard was religious, to what Shepard can answer a serious answer or just jokingly "neither did I". If player romances Ashley, this can be expanded even further if needed.

Nothing more, nothing less, you get the idea. Details are left ambiguous and all that is concluded is that your Shepard is definetly religious, or he MAY not be. Even if he would be "just thinking" he may still be religious if you as a player like to think so, but anyway...

I think something akin to this would be O.K. so long as you also gave the option for Shepard to say something like "I'm trying to figure out how we can win this, I don't have the luxury of wasting time talking to my imaginary friend." or something like that. 

If I remember correctly I think Shepard could be quite critical of Ashleys beliefs, if he so wished. If your giving him the option of being faithful he should also be able to express his skepticism, especially considering Ash thought it might be considred strange that she was religious.

[A Great Biotic Wind]

jbblue05 wrote...

A Great Biotic Wind wrote...

How dare you insult my God by not allowing prayer? It's SO offensive. I DEMAND you include my God into this game. Or I will see you in court sirs! D:<


ALL HAIL THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!

This is a joke BTW.

Even though I'm atheist, I'm totally not offended with their being some option for prayer at the appropriate moment. I can't see Shepard praying before a mission. But if it's endgame, and the universe is doomed. He may just head up to Ashley's room for some final words.

I knew the Flying Spaghettie monster was real, this image is 100% solid proof:happy:

That's why there needs to be S/S in ME3, is pastafarianism; gays are created from touching HIS noodley appendages. Shepard is FSM's prophet!

[SirOccam]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Maybe BioWare should just make up a new religion.

This is a good point. I've never heard anyone complain about Dragon Age characters being devout believers in the Maker or Andraste, and there are plenty of opportunities for a character to affirm his or her belief in that regard.

It's too late now, of course, but if they had done this from the beginning in ME, I doubt it would even be a topic of discussion, much less have any complaints.

Seriously what it comes down to is risk vs. reward on BioWare's part. Even if they managed to implement it in a way that doesn't offend anyone or earn them complaints or negative attention, which is no small feat, what do they get out of it? A few people might be like "oh, cool" and forget about it 5 minutes later? This would not significantly improve the storyline of Mass Effect 3. The lack of it would not significantly hamper the storyline of Mass Effect 3. The wise decision, by a HUGE margin, is not to do it.

[Feanor_II]

Yeah, aslo listening to music with earphones, having to "visit the bathrooms", posibiliti to take a shower.......

[Wereparrot]

SirOccam wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Maybe BioWare should just make up a new religion.

This is a good point. I've never heard anyone complain about Dragon Age characters being devout believers in the Maker or Andraste, and there are plenty of opportunities for a character to affirm his or her belief in that regard.

That's because Dragon Age is set in a completely different universe.

[Davie McG]

Feanor_II wrote...

Yeah, aslo listening to music with earphones, having to "visit the bathrooms", posibiliti to take a shower.......

Shepard can express his belief in God, he can express his skepticism in religion, there is heavy religious symbolism through out this game. Religion is out right discussed by the characters in both Mass Effect games. The likelyhood that religion will either be brought up in conversation or witnessing a character participate in their religion during what could easily be described as an apocalypse is quite significant.


I don't think discussing how this could be handled is an unreasonable thing to be doing. 

[Destroy Raiden_]

I like the suggestion further up the page where some says shep's LI or an npc find shep alone in his room (kind of like how SB or LI just walk in on shep) and ask what is he doing to prepare shep can say he's praying, planning, or I guess ren would be doubting. If person picks praying npc will ask further into it like the ever popular what do you think on life after death we can say that varies for humans, or it doesn't exist. They may ask about the light sense we know from Benezia she was expecting a light npc can ask did you see it last time you can say yes, no, or I expect to see it if I die this time. The questions wouldn't keep going on and on but it would give the player the ability to give vague answers. With most religions believe it or not there are common threads BW can get questions on where the religions link up not on where they don't.

Now if player says planning we get questions on that too.

Maybe how shep answers in this final time would help shape the ending we get as players it would factor into our end game results shep would see and hear different things if your shep is doing a suicidal task, dying, or escaping by the skin of his teeth.

Religion definitely needs to be in 3 regardless of weather shep is able to express the players view on it or not. Playing DA I consider their religion idolizing and pagan based religion but it didn't bother me the game characters talk about it. I smile politely and look for the neutral option to be respectful the way I see it the game may be presenting me with a fake religion but I don't need to be a jerk about it. You don't have to agree with the religion but you can function around them and you can enjoy helping these people who may not believe what you do.

I enjoyed allowing the aid the hanar in speaking on the Citadel and I can't imagine us visiting all the galaxies in the world and finding only atheist  but I'd say religion will be at an all time high where creatures who want to eat you come into town.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 29 août 2011 - 05:22 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Wereparrot wrote...

tenshi_no_hone wrote...

What if you were given the chance to join Ashley in a prayer or something? She as a character clerly has a specific faith, and the choice element becomes how you deal with that. Then it doesn't matter that not every faith is included, because it's how you respond to one held by one of the characters.

If you want you could apply this to a couple of the fictitious ones as well, like Thane's. Make it about NPC interaction AND player choice and there shouldn't be a problem right?

I would support this.

This is a good one too.

[King Minos]

Religion is just a scapegoat for the violence we cause. We have enough hate as it is on these forums, we insult, bully and even threaten members AND the developers just for voicing their opinions on why they hate companion A or mission C or why that game mechanic was added no need to add religion to the mix. Adding religion is just playing with fire, better to create a religion then use real ones. What if Ashley was a Muslim? How would hardcore Christians, buddhists, Sikhs, Rastafarians, Jews and all the other colourful religions we have?