759 réponses à ce sujet

[Quole]

I think we should be able to kill kids in every game. Even kid`s games.

[Blacklash93]

111987 wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Just putting it out there for discussion:

Why is it ok to express all sides of sexual orientation but not all sides of religious or non-religious belief?

A person is either heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. That's three options.

I don't think that's the point of what he's saying.

He's not asking what is or isn't practical. He's asking what makes one more acceptable to include.

[Bad King]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Last I checked, Athiests don't kill for their beliefs. So you can scratch the 'militant' term, flyingwalrus.

Militant, definition 1.

As for atheists that don't kill for their beliefs? See Soviet Union, People's Republic of China

Get educated before you hit the submit button.

Just putting it out that most of the deaths caused by Stalin or Mao had little to do with their atheism. However, Stalin's persecution of Christians was indeed a result of state anti-theism.

Modifié par Bad King, 30 août 2011 - 02:15 .

[ZenJestr]

this thread is why we can't have nice things....

[Boiny Bunny]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Just putting it out there for discussion:

Why is it ok to express all sides of sexual orientation but not all sides of religious or non-religious belief?

A few reasons spring to mind, with respect to the ME trilogy:

It's a political minefield within this audience.  If you observe the threads here, most people are not opposed to s/s relationships being included in Bioware games, but as soon as anything related to religion gets brought up, large arguments start quickly.

There are a very limited number of sexual orientations one can take (straight, gay, bi - ignoring tg as no ME character fits into this category).  There are far too many possible religions, and associated differing customs, to put into a game.  For example, if Bioware included the option to 'pray', there would be a huge influx of complaints.  Why doesn't the Normandy have a prayer room?  Why can't Shepard pray multiple times a day towards Mecca?  Why can't Shepard mention that he/she is fasting?  That he/she is vegatarian/vegan due to religious beliefs?

Further, the setting is sci-fi.  Nobody knows whether or not any 'God' exists in the ME universe (that is really up to the writers), but most hints seem to point at no - or at least, not any 'God' that we have imagined to this point, given that all the different species have completely different religious beliefs to humans.

[Volus Warlord]

Let's see who can be the most self-righteous!

[111987]

Blacklash93 wrote...

111987 wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Just putting it out there for discussion:

Why is it ok to express all sides of sexual orientation but not all sides of religious or non-religious belief?

A person is either heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. That's three options.

I don't think that's the point of what he's saying.

He's not asking what is or isn't practical. He's asking what makes one more acceptable to include.

But is the decision not to have religion in Mass Effect 3 because the developers don't think it's acceptable for religion to be put in, or because it ISN'T practical to begin with?

[Volus Warlord]

111987 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

111987 wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Just putting it out there for discussion:

Why is it ok to express all sides of sexual orientation but not all sides of religious or non-religious belief?

A person is either heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. That's three options.

I don't think that's the point of what he's saying.

He's not asking what is or isn't practical. He's asking what makes one more acceptable to include.

But is the decision not to have religion in Mass Effect 3 because the developers don't think it's acceptable for religion to be put in, or because it ISN'T practical to begin with?

Dude, they're just trying to get their ideological rant on. If you start bringing up things like "practical" that might shut them down and they don't like that. They must RANT!

[ZenJestr]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Last I checked, Athiests don't kill for their beliefs. So you can scratch the 'militant' term, flyingwalrus.

Militant, definition 1.

As for atheists that don't kill for their beliefs? See Soviet Union, People's Republic of China

Get educated before you hit the submit button.

An atheist who murders isn't an Atheist Crusader or anything like that...just like how a theist murderer isn't killing for religious reasons...

the two groups you mentioned killed for other reasons...mainly political, not a "religious cleansing"

what he meant was: it's hard to find an atheist that kills other people because of his atheism or because he pulls a "go atheist or die" tactic

Modifié par ZenJestr, 30 août 2011 - 02:24 .

[111987]

Volus Warlord wrote...

111987 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

111987 wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Just putting it out there for discussion:

Why is it ok to express all sides of sexual orientation but not all sides of religious or non-religious belief?

A person is either heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. That's three options.

I don't think that's the point of what he's saying.

He's not asking what is or isn't practical. He's asking what makes one more acceptable to include.

But is the decision not to have religion in Mass Effect 3 because the developers don't think it's acceptable for religion to be put in, or because it ISN'T practical to begin with?

Dude, they're just trying to get their ideological rant on. If you start bringing up things like "practical" that might shut them down and they don't like that. They must RANT!

My mistake

[nitefyre410]

ZenJestr wrote...

this thread is why we can't have nice things....

 

^ This  .. a damn shame too

[Chromie]

Quole wrote...

I think we should be able to kill kids in every game. Even kid`s games.

Ofcourse. Ever played Fallout 1 or 2?

[Sundance31us]

[FlyingWalrus]

slimgrin wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Last I checked, Athiests don't kill for their beliefs. So you can scratch the 'militant' term, flyingwalrus.

Militant

As for atheists that don't kill for their beliefs? See Soviet Union, People's Republic of China

Get educated before you hit the submit button.

Those are political reasons, has nothing to do with someones belief in an afterlife or a god or prophecy. This argument keeps sprouting up like a weed despite being disproven time and again..

nope.jpg

The Soviet Union and China were explicitly atheist and anyone that practiced (or practices) an organized religion got (gets) imprisoned or killed. Not secular—atheist. This is because they knew that people would always be more loyal to their faith than the government, and this was intolerable; they wanted the absolute loyalty of the people. Anyone that was out of step with the communist party's most perfect plan was purged. It wasn't even a war, it was a massacre. The Shaolin Temple and other monasteries were razed during the "Cultural Revolution," so it was hardly an attack on theism alone so much as an attack on any belief that wasn't theirs. Quite intolerant I must say.

So really, let's stop trying to whitewash the fact that atheists themselves are responsible for horrific atrocoties in history well up and even above the most fervent religious crusades. This by no means makes all atheists bad people, as humanity chooses to kill for whatever reason it might find convenient at the time. It's just a little-regarded historical fact that undermines the idea that religion is solely responsible for all the vicious behavior in the world.

[KotorEffect3]

This thread would be fine if people could discuss this without insulting each other's world views but when has that happened on the internet?

[Biotic Sage]

111987 wrote...

A person is either heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. That's three options.

Don't forget about asexual!

Also, why is this thread still alive?

[The Twilight God]

slimgrin wrote...

Last I checked, Athiests don't kill for their beliefs. So you can scratch the 'militant' term, flyingwalrus.

Saddam Hussien, the Chinese government, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc. A lack of belief in a deity has never stopped man from being man. Even from an atheistic view, there being no god, religion is inherently the work of man and mankind itself is responsible for it. Ergo, religion is is poor scapegoat as it is the human condition that results in suffering, not an invisible man in the sky. It's like saying capitalism is the cause of wars. Capitalism is just an institution that reflects man's nature.

[Quole]

Ringo12 wrote...

Quole wrote...

I think we should be able to kill kids in every game. Even kid`s games.

Ofcourse. Ever played Fallout 1 or 2?

Hell yes! Minigunning a kid on the street. So fun!

Modifié par Quole, 30 août 2011 - 02:34 .

[Blacklash93]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

This thread would be fine if people could discuss this without insulting each other's world views but when has that happened on the internet?

I'm continually amazed at how many times people fail to just agree to disagree and leave each other to their business.

This is why we can't have nice things. Everyone's constantly trying to push thier agenda and beliefs on others in one way or another.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 30 août 2011 - 02:39 .

[slimgrin]

The Twilight God wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Last I checked, Athiests don't kill for their beliefs. So you can scratch the 'militant' term, flyingwalrus.

Saddam Hussien, the Chinese government, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, etc. A lack of belief in a deity has never stopped man from being man. Even from an atheistic view, there being no god, religion is inherently the work of man and mankind itself is responsible for it. Ergo, religion is is poor scapegoat as it is the human condition that results in suffering, not an invisible man in the sky. It's like saying capitalism is the cause of wars. Capitalism is just an institution that reflects man's nature.

Religion is one of the most effective mediums for dogma, submision to authority, and belief without proof. Call it the human condition if you want. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 30 août 2011 - 02:41 .

[J-Sheridan]

Ringo12 wrote...

Quole wrote...

I think we should be able to kill kids in every game. Even kid`s games.

Ofcourse. Ever played Fallout 1 or 2?

You can kill kids in FO 1 and 2 ... why wasnt this feature included in FO3 damnit, those little lamplight dudes so needed some killin like sticky.

Regardless,
Porn sells and thus ME sells softcore porn that caters to wider demographic
Religion dosent sell and thus ME dosent do Religion

Theres your 'practical' reason why.

[Quole]

J-Sheridan wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Quole wrote...

I think we should be able to kill kids in every game. Even kid`s games.

Ofcourse. Ever played Fallout 1 or 2?

You can kill kids in FO 1 and 2 ... why wasnt this feature included in FO3 damnit, those little lamplight dudes so needed some killin like sticky.

Regardless,
Porn sells and thus ME sells softcore porn that caters to wider demographic
Religion dosent sell and thus ME dosent do Religion

Theres your 'practical' reason why.

Yeah... Bethesda took a lot of elements out that made FO 1/2 so great. I still liked FO3 though.

Modifié par Quole, 30 août 2011 - 02:43 .

[SirLysander]

Re: Atheist militancy

Don't forget the Refuseniks and some of the early, official, party positions in the USSR.

[Quole]

SirLysander wrote...

Re: Atheist militancy

Don't forget the Refuseniks and some of the early, official, party positions in the USSR.

Again..... the ratio is still very one-sided.