21 réponses à ce sujet

[Pipboy3billion]

I'm planning a run through starting at BG1 all the way through ToB. I already have most of a party in mind, but I haven't settled on a protagonist. Side note, I'm planning on using Tutu or BGT, so I have to pick something I can actually take through both games. The party I have planned is:

BG1: Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir, Imoen
BG2: Jaheira, Minsc, Yoshi->Imoen, Viconia, and a wild card

I haven't settled on Viconia, but I figured I'd take her as she is a solid cleric, and I've never done her romance. The wild card is for whatever random NPC I have tagging along for their quests. For ToB, I'll probably have Sarevok in that slot.

The only character left is the protagonist. I'm wondering what would be a good fit for this party. Also, I know I'm lacking mage power for BG2, but I only plan to use one (Imoen, when I get her back) as a buffer/protection remover. I've played as mages before, and it was pretty tedious to have to spam breach, spellstrike, and lower resistance just to cast a fireball. Anyway, some ideas I had:

1) Paladin. I've never played one (I'm not really the LG type), but it would be a strong party leader. Also, a Paladin romancing Viconia would be an interesting idea. However, the kits aren't terribly interesting.

2) Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric. This might be redundant in having both Viconia and Jaheira, but I actually think this character would about to hold his own better than a single-classed Paladin, having access to whirlwinds and stronger spell casting. However, I'm thinking I might ditch Vic, romance Jah (she's cuter anyway ), and have two wild cards, just to get all the undesirable NPC quests done sooner. Then, I'd have a free slot for...well...I don't know who. Maybe Jan because he's so amusing or Keldorn, so someone can use Carsomyr).

These are the only ideas I have so far. I'm open to suggestions.

[Sparky The Barbarian]

Given your BG2 lineup I would suggest you play a tank. You don't need another cleric with Jaheira and Viconia in your party. The pally could be interesting, but remember to make LG choices or you may fall. Have you considered a Berserker? They can be a bit over powered, but are fun to play. While berserk you are immune to all the worst things in the game: Level Drain, Imprisonment, Charm, Fear, etc. It's also a good fit for Viconia.

[Pipboy3billion]

I agree with you about a tank being a better fit. I had figured the Ranger/Cleric would be a solid tank...definitely better than a Paladin, and probably better than a vanilla fighter. Not to mention, one can never have enough Insect Plague or Creeping Doom. How is a Beserker's Rage better than Chaotic Commands? And, is it worth giving up all that spellcasting for one special power?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

The Enrage protects against more things than Chaotic Commands (Sparky already mentioned Level Drain, Imprisonment and Fear) but of course, properly buffed the RC will be a superior warrior in all respects (until a Dispel Magic hits him). The charm of the berserker lies mostly in the easy control. With a mage (and especially a sorcerer), you really need to know what you are doing and you need to invest a lot of time to cast your spells - in return you are more powerful than anybody else. Proper buffing alone will involve at a dozen spells or more.
As a berserker you use enrage and give your warrior a target. That's it.
(as an RC (because explaining the berserkers advantage over the RC by showing the difference between berserkers and mages feels wrong)), you'd still cast a lot of spells. You wouldn't need them as desperately, and you'd have more trouble defending these buffs, but without them, the berserker would be clearly superior)

[Pipboy3billion]

Yeah, I was thinking about this. One dispel magic from an enemy mage can wipe out an entire array of cleric buffs and there's nothing I can do about it. I'm starting to wonder why bother. OTOH, getting through their protections would take a ton of mage spells. My impression is that I can't effectively protect myself from their magic, and I can't effectively use my own offensively.

I really hate magic.

I do see the advantage of a berserker. There's not much enemy mages can do to get through a rage. It's a pretty solid ability, but I want a little more flavor out of my character that just that one trick. How can I spice up a berserker?

[Ishad Nha]

Level 1 NPCs Mod will allow you to choose the class and kit of any of the 17 playable NPCs. It currently won't allow you to choose race or alignment.

[Pipboy3billion]

I'm fine with leaving everything as it is. I'll probably use SK to edit Minsc, Jaheira, and Imoen to be what they were at the end of BG1, but otherwise I like them as is. I'm just trying to figure out what the protagonist should be.

I'm tempted to multi a Beserker/Cleric using shadowkeeper (and not taking Viconia), but that's probably too cheaty for me. Then again, considering the protagonist's heritage, that might warrant bending the rules a little.

Modifié par Pipboy3billion, 29 août 2011 - 01:54 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Try the inquisitor as your main character. It seems you are going to like him very much.

[devSin]

Hey, that's my canon party setup! (I play wizard, and I leave the sixth slot for the mean man in ToB.)

It's not that didn't like the new characters or anything... I just like my old ones better. :-)

Modifié par devSin, 29 août 2011 - 04:33 .

[Grond0]

Pipboy3billion wrote...

I'm fine with leaving everything as it is. I'll probably use SK to edit Minsc, Jaheira, and Imoen to be what they were at the end of BG1, but otherwise I like them as is. I'm just trying to figure out what the protagonist should be.

If you use BGT there's no need for any editing as all characters get brought into BG2 using their existing stats anyway. 

In your other post you referred to wanting to use a wild mage.  I normally play no-reload, which makes them a bit of a liability, but a few spell failures could make life for your party interesting.

By the way if you like the idea of a seamless experience you might like to consider using all the same party in BG2 as BG1 (you're already using a lot the same anyway).  In addition to all the normal NPCs that appear in BG2 there are a number of others that you can bring across if you use BGTTweak (http://readme.spellh...TweakReadme.htm).

[Humanoid_Taifun]

But most of them will have very little to say in BG2, so I'd concentrate on those few that have actual mods for them (Xan and Kivan have good ones).

[morbidest2]

Pipboy... If you hate magic and plan to use Viconia, what about a half-orc fighter? One of the fix packs added half-orcs as a romance choice for Vicky, and the half-orc is probably as good as a dwarf as a pure tank. I would agree that a RC is ultimately a more powerful character than a HO tank, but do what's the most fun for you. Or if you want to do more than just bash things, what about a half-elf Swashbuckler? It's more of a challenge staying alive early in the game than RC or HO tank, but well into SoA you'll be a superthief in all 7 categories.

[Pipboy3billion]

Well, I definitely want a character with some panache. Oddly enough, it doesn't bother me to have tanks in the party, but I want the protagonist to play a central role in battle strategy and be a solid leader both on and off the battlefield. For example, just for kicks, I created a Fighter/Cleric for BG1 and set his Charisma to 15. With the tome and Algernon's cloak, he would be at 18 for the game, and being a F/C I can keep him in the #1 slot.

Now, I already know what you're thinking. Paladin. But I don't really see myself as a LG goody two shoes (my F/C is CG and I'll probably SK the Fighter half to a Beserker for BG2). Not to mention, the kits just aren't that impressive. The Inquisitor basically loses all its Paladin powers in exchange for an (albeit powerful) Dispel Magic and True Sight. I'll admit, the Undead Hunter was pretty cool for dealing with all those damn vamps, But outside of vamp fighting, it's pretty much just an ordinary Paladin. Finally, the Cavalier, which I hear is particularly useful in ToB. They have some nice perks. I like them better than the other kits, but it's still just a fighter that only shines in specific situations.

I'm tempted to go Paladin/Cavalier. With priest spells he'll have a few more tricks than a Berserker. But, I've always seen them as this good-little-soldier-not-questioning-authority types (thank Dragonlance and Sturm for that). I still want to romance Viconia if I can fit her in my party, which is weird for a Paladin. Maybe I'll do a Cavalier dealing with some internal struggle between obedience to a "lawful" society with not-so-good laws and doing what he knows is right.

However, I figure a Cav is pretty much toast against wizards and vamps. And, is Fear/Morale failure that big of a deal in this game? The Paladin gets some pretty good saves to begin with. I think I've rarely ever had one freak out. It would be nice if the Cav also had immunity Maze/Imprisonment, or all enchantments, not just Fear.

But, I'm starting to like this front line tank route, though I'm not sure how a Paly can outdo a Fighter/Cleric. Better spell casting, no alignment restriction, stronger undead control, and I get two pools of HLAs to choose from. The only downside is that I can't use the Carsomyr. Am I missing something?

What say the people?

Modifié par Pipboy3billion, 29 août 2011 - 06:42 .

[morbidest2]

Human or Half-elf F/C with Viconia sounds fine to me. There is a Mod (NP1) to alter the standard NPCs so that someone else besides Keldorn or a Paladin PC can use Carsomyr, but a longer discussion of that belongs in the Spoiler forum.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Why are you dismissing the inquisitor super-dispel like that? Combined with Carsomyr, mages will pose little to no challenge in the unmodded game - and you can use your own mages as pure nukers, without worrying too much about enemy protections.

[Pipboy3billion]

I finally decided on a Half-Elven Ranger/Cleric. Here's how I see it:

I'm not the type to keep rolling until I get super scores (I take the best of the first few or so). But Rangers tend to get better rolls due to all the min reqs. And, man, did I score with this one. Within TWO rolls, I made a Str 18/90-something, Dex 17, Con 16 or 17 (can't remember), Int 9, Wis 17 or 18, and Cha 17.

Being a half-elf gives me a 30% resistance to most enchantment/charm spells. Even without that, they have to get past my saves, and being multi, I get the best of two worlds. Between Jah and I, I'll have plenty of bug spells, and decent buffs that should help against maze/imprisonment (which are both touch spells). The biggest problem is Dispel magic. Basically, any mage of equal level to my party will probably be a level or two ahead of my RC (at least until level 20 when effects are capped). That gives them a slightly better chance at a dispel. On top of that, he'll have decent enough turning (for vamps). Oh, and he gets GWW, as well as whatever cleric feats strike my fancy. Finally, I can ditch Viconia, romance Jah, and work with a smaller party.

I've never played this combo before, but I'm hoping he'll hold his own as a leader, and he has a lot of neat tricks at his disposal.

Modifié par Pipboy3billion, 29 août 2011 - 10:32 .

[morbidest2]

I think you'll find that your R/C will slice thru the game like a knife thru butter.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Good for you. Just a few notes.
1) Imprisonment/Maze are not Touch spells. They require the target to be in touching distance (at the start of the spell) but you do not actually need to hit the target. This is different from Harm (and it's little brothers). The only protections a RC has against Imprisonment are Shield of The Archons (or similar effects), Improved Invisibility (unless you're fighting demi liches, in which case you should use Protection from Undead) and Magic Resistance. Without Throne of Bhaal installed, you would also be able to use the Cloak of Mirroring.
2) Dispel Magic is not capped at level 20. In fact, it is not capped at all.
3) I'm not sure whether the elven resistance to sleep has been implemented properly in the unmodded game. The G3 Fixpack mentions that they should have a 90% resistance to this kind of effects which they do not have. (it does not state however whether in the vanilla game you got nothing or just too little)

[Pipboy3billion]

1) Thanks for the clarification on Maze/Imprisonment. I based my opinion off the spell description, but that would be a nasty surprise. It seems that only the Berserker has a solid defense against Maze/Imprisonment. Still, it's not worth it (to me) to take a char just to have a perfect defense against one attack. I suppose my best defense is going to be a good offense.(i.e. Creeping Doom and Silence).

2) Well, that sucks. That means that the further along I go, the less I'm able to defend against Dispel Magic because the gap between my cleric casting level and the casting level of single classed spellcasters is going to widen. Once there's a 10 level gap, their dispels will have a 100% success rate. That really bites. There is a ton of spells and almost all buffs that are susceptible to Dispel Magic. And, can't Improved Invis. be dispelled as long as the target of Dispel Magic is not invisible and the Imp. Invis. character is in the area of effect?

I think this gives me something to think about. That is, is it worth doing a dual Warrior/Cleric so that my buffs will be safe from dispel magic but I have to give up GWWs or stick with a multi where my buffs aren't safe, but I'll be a solid front-line tanker?

3) Yeah, I have the G3 fix. Normally, I don't use mods for this game, but the fixpack is more of an unofficial patch.

Modifié par Pipboy3billion, 30 août 2011 - 03:19 .

[Grond0]

Why not dual from a berserker to cleric? Unlike many kits the berserker's special abilities are hardly dependent on level (gets more uses of berserk, but normally you can rest enough for this not to be an issue) and therefore it's very suitable for dualling. This also gives you some protection against imprisonment, which is not to be sneezed at.

[polytope]

It's worth noting that very few enemies in the unmodded game can cast Imprisonment (I can think of about 5 unique creatures, plus Elder Orbs), Maze is annoying, but it's not fatal if you're in a party - and unlike Imprisonment it is blocked by magic resistance (and Chaotic Commands).

Enemies that cast Dispel Magic and Breach (the main worries for clerics of any sort) are if anything even fewer - dragons and demons use dispel magic, but it almost never works due to a coding oversight in the vanilla game which causes them to cast their spells at first level.

Unless you want to install some difficulty increasing mod like Tactics or SCSII I doubt your multi-class will be disadvantaged. I prefer a human dual class with my setup, but each to their own.

Modifié par polytope, 30 août 2011 - 07:31 .

[Pipboy3billion]

If it's that rare, I don't see the point in giving up the GWWs from the multi. Besides, can't I just spam summons as imprisonment fodder (of which I'll have plenty as a R/C)?