431 réponses à ce sujet

[sympathy4saren]

I haven't played this game personally, but I eventually plan to and I've heard a lot of good about it. What elements in the game would you like to see Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect IP incorporate that you feel would help in making it a great game?

[LGTX]

The versatility of the level design. But Mass Effect focuses on one specific type of gameplay, regardless of classes which define power usage specifics. It wouldn't work very well.

They are very different games despite sharing similar ambitions. Can't really say any element from HR would transition to ME flawlessly.

[Malanek]

I'm only a few hours into it. It's a different style of game really. I think the quests are generally pretty well done, reminds me of VtM:Bloodlines. I don't think this formula really needs to be added to ME3 though.

The hacking mini-game is pretty good (once you get into it, the tutorial is hopeless) and you can get extra rewards by completing it well. Even if I have a code or password I will still hack the device anyway, I would never scan a planet for the fun. If they could make planet scanning that fun it would be great.

[marshalleck]

The versatility of DXHR's level design would be useless in Mass Effect unless Shepard can crouch and move around. And even then, you'd have the headache of squadmates' pathfinding to deal with. It's probably best if they stick to aping Gears of War in delivering a linear corridor shooter experience since that's the corner they've painted themselves into. They could look at the hacking and persuasion minigames for inspiration though.

Modifié par marshalleck, 29 août 2011 - 12:44 .

[Savber100]

Mass Effect and Deus Ex are rather different forms of RPGs.

Yes both are Action RPGs but Deus Ex is more or less a mini-sandbox RPG where they drop you into a big hub where you can decide how and what to do to achieve your mission.

Mass Effect takes a more linear, cinematic approach and aims to bring diversity through different classes in a linear level design rather than the non-linear, sandbox approach taken by Deus Ex.

That said, I would love to see the dialogue wheel of DX in ME. I also won't mind some different levels based on your choices in-game.

Modifié par Savber100, 29 août 2011 - 12:46 .

[marshalleck]

Savber100 wrote...

That said, I would love to see the dialogue wheel of DX in ME.  

Why? 

(I apologize if that sounds blunt; I am actually curious)

[LGTX]

The hacking is interesting at first, but the planning ahead is usually done in seconds, and pure mastery comes soon after that. Then it's just a tedious pacebreaker which needs to go by faster. I started wasting money into those automatic openers rather than advancing my hacking augs for no other reason.

ME1's circular frogger wasn't BAD, but it had degrees of genuine difficulty not tacklable through practical training, but easily overcome by quick thinking and reflexes, a system that flew by real fast and didn't break you away. ME2 stepped away a bit, but I'd rather they not implement something as deep as HR's hacking in ME3.

Back on topic, a great feature would be the 'social bossfights', like Saren from ME1, with or without the emotionality type gauge. We just need those encounters back, with the same or more emphasis that DX puts on them, in ME3.

[Savber100]

marshalleck wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

That said, I would love to see the dialogue wheel of DX in ME.  

Why? 

(I apologize if that sounds blunt; I am actually curious)

In short? 

Those goddamn paraphrases are way too vague in ME. I choose an option that I believe will speak in a certain way and it turns up to be something else entirely. I want to actually read what I'm about to say. To me, there's nothing more immersive-breaking when your Shepard says something out of character because I didn't understand the vague paraphrasing. 

The DX system seem to work a lot better in preventing that mistake.

...

There's nothing wrong with that is there? 

Modifié par Savber100, 29 août 2011 - 12:54 .

[marshalleck]

Ah right. I was surprised on more than one occasion when Jensen said exactly what was written on the wheel.

Nothing wrong at all. Like I said, I know it sounded blunt but it was the most direct way of getting at what I wanted to know. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 29 août 2011 - 12:56 .

[Malanek]

The other thing I like about the DX dialogue system is that you can't just pick the blue or the red option to "win" the conversation. You need to pick different options depending on what you think will work best with who you are dealing with. However we are so far into the ME system with paragon and renegade that I don't see it very effective to throw that away now. Save it for another game with the morality.

[Ianamus]

Well, I think that the lack (mostly) of paraphrasing in Human Revolution was good, but I think that Mass Effect's system doesn't need an overhaul at the moment.

Er... combat mechanics-wise, I liked being able to use the environment to your advantage, like stealth, hacking turrets/camera's, even throwing fire extinguishers or boxes at enemies- it would be great to see more ways of playing through a level in Mass Effect rather than just shooting everything.

I also like being able to speak to everybody on the street, even if they only say a line or two. It let's us see so many different opinions, and would be a great inclusion.

I can't think of anything else that could benefit Mass Effect. The quality of sidequests as well I guess, but the games are too different for much else to be a worthwhile inclusion.

[Cheesy Blue]

Robot arms, enough said.

[Malanek]

LGTX wrote...

The hacking is interesting at first, but the planning ahead is usually done in seconds, and pure mastery comes soon after that. Then it's just a tedious pacebreaker which needs to go by faster. I started wasting money into those automatic openers rather than advancing my hacking augs for no other reason. 

You mean there is no challenge? This must just come down to the design of the networks later on. I think the mini-game design itself is excellent. All they have to do is have bigger networks with more difficult datastores (the objective node can still be easy) to keep it interesting. Already seen some with over 30 nodes. I guess to each their own but I really like it so far.

[LGTX]

I mean that there's a wrong type of challenge. I understand it may be a stupid thing to say, but it's my opinion. I elaborated later on by drawing a parallel to how ME1 used a simplistic approach to its advantage. Organic gameplay and general consistensy in difficulty kinda wins me over from hacking emulations and node-capturing crusades and deep stuff like that. Stuff that's well thought-out and awesome, just... Out of place.

[Savber100]

EJ107 wrote...

Well, I think that the lack (mostly) of paraphrasing in Human Revolution was good, but I think that Mass Effect's system doesn't need an overhaul at the moment.

Er... combat mechanics-wise, I liked being able to use the environment to your advantage, like stealth, hacking turrets/camera's, even throwing fire extinguishers or boxes at enemies- it would be great to see more ways of playing through a level in Mass Effect rather than just shooting everything.

I also like being able to speak to everybody on the street, even if they only say a line or two. It let's us see so many different opinions, and would be a great inclusion.

I can't think of anything else that could benefit Mass Effect. The quality of sidequests as well I guess, but the games are too different for much else to be a worthwhile inclusion.

The issue with this is that Mass Effect is more of a squad based game in comparison to other RPGs like Witcher 2 or DX. I mean how would you stealth or hack turrets when your squadmates are running everywhere. Maybe Bioware could totally revamp squad controls but I don't see these diverse options happening in ME unless Shepard is alone etc. 

If anything, ME should go for the old Rainbow Six squad gameplay route. That would be interesting. 

Also while we're talking about manipulating environments, I would love to see biotics having the ability to destroy destructible enviroments for future ME games. 

Imagine lifting an enemy and then hurling them into a destructible wall or creating a singularity and watch a building get sucked into itself. 

Modifié par Savber100, 29 août 2011 - 01:09 .

[marshalleck]

EJ107 wrote...

Er... combat mechanics-wise, I liked being able to use the environment to your advantage, like stealth, hacking turrets/camera's, even throwing fire extinguishers or boxes at enemies- it would be great to see more ways of playing through a level in Mass Effect rather than just shooting everything.

I dropped a refrigerator on a guard from the fifth floor of an apartment building. It was pretty great. Not for him though.

[Kaiser Shepard]

marshalleck wrote...

The versatility of DXHR's level design would be useless in Mass Effect unless Shepard can crouch and move around. And even then, you'd have the headache of squadmates' pathfinding to deal with. It's probably best if they stick to aping Gears of War in delivering a linear corridor shooter experience since that's the corner they've painted themselves into. They could look at the hacking and persuasion minigames for inspiration though.

Which is somewhat ironic, seeing how even Gears has about one moment per level where you choose which of two paths you take.

[Iakus]

 The most realistic element that could fit in Mass Effect?  Easy.

Secondary missions.

In-depth quest chains that are not part of the main storyline, but can be done in parallel to it.  

[marshalleck]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The versatility of DXHR's level design would be useless in Mass Effect unless Shepard can crouch and move around. And even then, you'd have the headache of squadmates' pathfinding to deal with. It's probably best if they stick to aping Gears of War in delivering a linear corridor shooter experience since that's the corner they've painted themselves into. They could look at the hacking and persuasion minigames for inspiration though.

Which is somewhat ironic, seeing how even Gears has about one moment per level where you choose which of two paths you take.

Which in itself is still linear design, compared to a more open approach that DXHR somewhat takes, and other games go off the deep end with.

[Kaiser Shepard]

marshalleck wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The versatility of DXHR's level design would be useless in Mass Effect unless Shepard can crouch and move around. And even then, you'd have the headache of squadmates' pathfinding to deal with. It's probably best if they stick to aping Gears of War in delivering a linear corridor shooter experience since that's the corner they've painted themselves into. They could look at the hacking and persuasion minigames for inspiration though.

Which is somewhat ironic, seeing how even Gears has about one moment per level where you choose which of two paths you take.

Which in itself is still linear design, compared to a more open approach that DXHR somewhat takes, and other games go off the deep end with.

True, but that doesn't change how a "mere shooter " offers more freedom and actual gameplay ramifications of choices than a series apparently built on that premise. Deus Ex taking freedom a whole 'nother level is a known fact.

[sympathy4saren]

I believe level design can take cues from Human Revolution and move away from constant corridor shooting. Just because it isn't the status quo doesn't mean it cannot be implemented.

Change, right?

This type if level design, at the very least corresponding with the status quo, would give variety to gameplay, foster exploration in missions and offer a completely new gameplay style: pure stealth.

[Cainne Chapel]

I mean the level design of DXHR is good... but it still a "corridor" game honestly.

Never thought detroit was so....small heh heh.

Dont get me wrong, I like the level design OF DEHR but its not exactly mind blowing, its just neat that there's several ways of completing the exact same objective based on your style. Which works for it.

Just dont see it meshing well with ME's style though, they both play completely differently all things said.

[Kasai666]

marshalleck wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Er... combat mechanics-wise, I liked being able to use the environment to your advantage, like stealth, hacking turrets/camera's, even throwing fire extinguishers or boxes at enemies- it would be great to see more ways of playing through a level in Mass Effect rather than just shooting everything.

I dropped a refrigerator on a guard from the fifth floor of an apartment building. It was pretty great. Not for him though.

I threw a fire extinguisher at a group of 4 civiilians. They all died, yet it didn't touch a single one. 
On topic, I hope we can use the enviroment in more ways in ME3. 

[omgodzilla]

The music

[davidshooter]

Savber100 wrote...

If anything, ME should go for the old Rainbow Six squad gameplay route. That would be interesting. 

I like ME better than Rainbow overall, but I really wish Bioware would look at what that series did with squad based combat. 

Breaching through doors (in different ways), different settings for the squad, having to actually get to a downed squadmate to revive them, smoke and thermal tactics, silencers that allow you to pick people off in a level without alerting everyone else, squadmates that follow orders (well, better than ME anyway), large maps where multiple strategies and routes can be employed and most importantly - a difficulty setting (enemy AI) that is actually hard.  A lone wolf terror hunt on Realistic (without camping and exploiting AI) remains challenging over and over again. 

Modifié par davidshooter, 29 août 2011 - 04:29 .