431 réponses à ce sujet

[Sailears]

Probably already been mentioned, but I must say: the atmosphere and depth of the city hubs.

[Sidney]

Il Divo wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Except that XP has weight, context and meaning in HR, but is completely arbritrary and meaningless in ME2. With HR you can see where the XP comes from and why, but in ME2 it's just a random number tossed at you at the end of each mission that has no real context and conveniently levels you up almost every time. HR also actually has some more passive, non-combat skills (as you note), while ME2 is just pretty much only about killing enemies and that's about it. ME2 platters every upgrade too, while you can't really God-mod yourself in HR.

I disagree. If anything, it's easier to God-mode yourself in Deus Ex. By the end-game, I had every single upgrade, except the Stealth Enhancer, Hacking: Analyze, aim stabilizer (which is useless with laser sight) and two less energy cells. By Singapore, my character essentially had all the necessities from every tree and could do whatever I wanted.

Well DX points out ALL the flaws in the silly XP per individual dinky thing you do. I search a desk, find a password, use it on a computer my XP gain = 0. Now if I hack that same machine I get 100 XP plus whatever other goodies I get from hacking (cash, items, XP). Same outcome but vastly different rewards. It got to the point where passwords didn't matter because I hacked everything that I saw because I could always win AND I got a lot more goodies doing things the dumb way rather than the easy way. Then you toss in the fine XP bonuses for how you kill a guard (Marksman for head shots, basically style points) and then the insane 2:1 XP gain for knocking out a guard vs killing him.  Here there is "meaning" as in I understand what is happening but it is stupid because it remains wholly arbitrary.

[ThePwener]

Shepard is also a cyborg, so let's have the ability to swap body parts!

[Il Divo]

Sidney wrote...

Well DX points out ALL the flaws in the silly XP per individual dinky thing you do. I search a desk, find a password, use it on a computer my XP gain = 0. Now if I hack that same machine I get 100 XP plus whatever other goodies I get from hacking (cash, items, XP). Same outcome but vastly different rewards. It got to the point where passwords didn't matter because I hacked everything that I saw because I could always win AND I got a lot more goodies doing things the dumb way rather than the easy way. Then you toss in the fine XP bonuses for how you kill a guard (Marksman for head shots, basically style points) and then the insane 2:1 XP gain for knocking out a guard vs killing him.  Here there is "meaning" as in I understand what is happening but it is stupid because it remains wholly arbitrary.

Yeah, it's definitely a flawed system at its core and is a great demonstration of how xp per kill (and the general style) isn't always the best approach to an RPG. It's been a while since I played the original, but Deus Ex did avoid this issue pretty well, since XP wasn't activity-based. I felt like my character had a diverse set of skills, but still couldn't be a master of all.  

[Ahglock]

Il Divo wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Well DX points out ALL the flaws in the silly XP per individual dinky thing you do. I search a desk, find a password, use it on a computer my XP gain = 0. Now if I hack that same machine I get 100 XP plus whatever other goodies I get from hacking (cash, items, XP). Same outcome but vastly different rewards. It got to the point where passwords didn't matter because I hacked everything that I saw because I could always win AND I got a lot more goodies doing things the dumb way rather than the easy way. Then you toss in the fine XP bonuses for how you kill a guard (Marksman for head shots, basically style points) and then the insane 2:1 XP gain for knocking out a guard vs killing him.  Here there is "meaning" as in I understand what is happening but it is stupid because it remains wholly arbitrary.

Yeah, it's definitely a flawed system at its core and is a great demonstration of how xp per kill (and the general style) isn't always the best approach to an RPG. It's been a while since I played the original, but Deus Ex did avoid this issue pretty well, since XP wasn't activity-based. I felt like my character had a diverse set of skills, but still couldn't be a master of all.  

I don't see it as flawed at its core.  There is nothing wrong with having variable rates of advancement dependent on how the player decides to go at it.  If you want everything, you have that option if you don't want everything don't open every X, kill every Y etc.  There is nothing wrong with putting that responsibility in the hands of the player.  Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses some people value different things to different degrees.  

[Kail Ashton]

Well the omni blade covers the take downs, maybe a use on civilian option in ME3 though *evil laugh*

Otherwise the systems for both are diffrent enough that you'd have a completely diffrent ME3 from the rest of the series established play style, would be easiar to compare deus ex & the metal gear solid series (which deus ex:HR makes a few nods to already)

[United_Strafes]

Mass Effect shoud have an Endingtron 5000 like Deus Ex. So nothing that you do in the game makes any difference whatsoever.

[habitat 67]

Kail Ashton wrote...

Well the omni blade covers the take downs, maybe a use on civilian option in ME3 though *evil laugh*
 

Everyone is an assassin....

[100k]

PDesign wrote...

Check this out folks

*wipes tears of laughter out of eyes*

Damn you! Damn you to hell for making me laugh so hard!

:happy::happy::lol:

[United_Strafes]

Rojahar wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...

Mass Effect shoud have an Endingtron 5000 like Deus Ex. So nothing that you do in the game makes any difference whatsoever.

Doesn't it already? You get two choices, at the end of each Mass Effect, which are entirely irrelevant to everything else you've done.

Ya there are actual choices that affect the ending, not push button 1 for ending 1, push button 2 for ending 2....etc.

Stupidest thing I've ever seen and a horrible way to end what I thought was a prettty mediocre game.

Oh ya and it saves right before you enter the Endingtron 5000, so you want to see all the endings now.....go right ahead.

Modifié par United_Strafes, 12 septembre 2011 - 08:48 .

[Sidney]

Ahglock wrote...
I don't see it as flawed at its core.  There is nothing wrong with having variable rates of advancement dependent on how the player decides to go at it.  If you want everything, you have that option if you don't want everything don't open every X, kill every Y etc.  There is nothing wrong with putting that responsibility in the hands of the player.  Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses some people value different things to different degrees.  

Really? So a game that advertises "choice" rewards one choice more than others. I mean the "ghost" acheivement also pulls that same "This is a stealth game" card out as well.

Still what you said is wrong. The game doesn't reward you for searching everywhere. The more you search = more passwords found. More passwords found = less XP gained. That is rewarding a specific playstyle and not allow people who value different things to different degrees to flourish in the game. In fact, it is only a flat XP per mission appraoch that does because then the game becomes 100% agnostic to your particular playstyle.

[Chuvvy]

Faridah Malik

[Keyatzin]

I liked Deus Ex, but there are certain things they did that I didn't particularly like.

I didn't like reading out the entire line in the dialogue wheel, it broke immersion by halting the flow, especially when the other character would tell you to hurry up; and since the options didn't appear until it was your turn to talk. I did like that you really had to work at it to persuade people though.

I liked the variety in the way you could handle missions, but that came at the expense of a lot less side missions.

But one of my gripes was their inconsistent sense of urgency. You have the 1st mission that if you take too long things go bad. But then the rest of the game just throws a lot at you to slow you down (locker rooms, hackable computers, desk drawers, etc.) And as I have already mentioned in the dialogue wheel.

And then there were features that it seemed they added just to annoy people. Most notably that only one bar of energy ever recharges, and later in the game it becomes an issue trying to fill them up. I hated that melee takes up one bar. And the encumbrance system, I get the point, but I just find it a dumb feature in a game (I want to avoid the tedium of real life, when I play a game; I'm weird like that.)

And while I didn't like the hold or toggle cover system, I liked moving around in cover, but ME3 is already doing that.

Honestly, while I was playing the game, I just kept noticing those mechanics that made the game more complicated, and detracted from the fun.  Oh, and the digital acting in DE was just awful. And I much prefer the way ME does things.   

Modifié par Keyatzin, 12 septembre 2011 - 10:02 .

[naledgeborn]

Keyatzin wrote...
I liked the variety in the way you could handle missions, but that came at the expense of a lot less side missions.

Unfair assessment. There is plenty of side missions. You just have to find them. And the ONE thing that Eidos did good at, that Bio Ware could learn from is how 90% of the side missions intersect with the critical path seamlessly. It's really hard to lose focus of the overarching plot when it's ingrained in most of the side missions.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 12 septembre 2011 - 10:10 .

[rikimeru420]

none of them

[Lenimph]

rikimeru420 wrote...

none of them

This... I loved DXHR but there was nothing that really stood out to me and told me "OOOH this would be excellent in MASS EFFECT!"

It was more like the reverse... elements from ME2 I wanted in DXHR...

Edit: Actually I take that back.. The clothes in DX:HR we're sexy and actually expressed that fashion still exisits  

Modifié par Lenimph, 12 septembre 2011 - 10:58 .

[Alraiis]

I liked the way social challenges were handled, in part. Not the Alpha/Beta/Omega minigame that comes up, but the longer conversations where you have to use what you know about the character (along with the psych profile your aug gives you, if you have it) to convince them, rather than automatically succeeding with a single line. The convincing felt more realistic and tense when it took some time and carried the threat of failure. Granted, success is still nearly a sure thing with the upgrade—and a guarantee if you want to reload your save—but I thought it was done well.

[Kreid]

You know I think that for next Mass Effect entries there could be a few solo infiltrating mission, like arrival, only with actual depth like DX: HR with some unique mechanics (like non lethat/stealth Omniblade take downs) and some interesting hacking, there would be very few in the main mission (like Mako drives in ME1) and a a bit more as side missions, imagine being able to infiltrate a company in Noveria to take some info for the Shadow Broker for example, it'd be very nice and a way to add variety to the game.

[twisty77]

I personally am having a difficult time playing DE:HR, because the controls are extremely clunky and it takes the story a while to get going. The controls in ME2 are not flawless, but at least the left trigger is used for aiming down the sight...

[Sidney]

twisty77 wrote...

I personally am having a difficult time playing DE:HR, because the controls are extremely clunky and it takes the story a while to get going. The controls in ME2 are not flawless, but at least the left trigger is used for aiming down the sight...

Well and the decision to have the "X" on the 360 controller interact with things rather than the "A" is just change for the sake of change.

[Sidney]

naledgeborn wrote...

Keyatzin wrote...
I liked the variety in the way you could handle missions, but that came at the expense of a lot less side missions.

Unfair assessment. There is plenty of side missions. You just have to find them. And the ONE thing that Eidos did good at, that Bio Ware could learn from is how 90% of the side missions intersect with the critical path seamlessly. It's really hard to lose focus of the overarching plot when it's ingrained in most of the side missions.

Well and not only do they interact they're meaningful. Bioware could have 100 bring me McGuffin X type quests and they would not outweigh any of the DX sidequests. Playing DX you realize that a lot of the FO or ME or DAO games that fill up your "to-do" list fill it up with epic amounts of uninteresting crap. I'd rather have a single deep and interesting sidequest than all the secondary side quests in DA2 or the find a mineral junk from ME1.

[LPPrince]

If Faridah Malik found her way into the ME universe, I would not complain.

[atheelogos]

ThePwener wrote...

Shepard is also a cyborg, so let's have the ability to swap body parts!

can't tell if serious...