431 réponses à ce sujet

[SkittlesKat96]

twisty77 wrote...

I personally am having a difficult time playing DE:HR, because the controls are extremely clunky and it takes the story a while to get going. The controls in ME2 are not flawless, but at least the left trigger is used for aiming down the sight...

I have to admit I agree that the controls and movement in Deus Ex HR are a little annoying, maybe its because I'm playing on the PC version, maybe its because of the type of game it is, maybe its because they had to make it for all platforms, I don't know.

Still though it wasn't enough of a problem for me that I couldn't get used to it, its kind of a necessary annoyance.

[Raizo]

marshalleck wrote...

Ah right. I was surprised on more than one occasion when Jensen said exactly what was written on the wheel.

Nothing wrong at all. Like I said, I know it sounded blunt but it was the most direct way of getting at what I wanted to know. 

This.

It was quite refreshing ( not to mention shocking at first ) to have Jenson more or less say what was witten on his dialogue wheel. I really don't like the way this was handled in ME2, the way all of Shepard's dialogue choices were paraphrased into a few words the dialogue wheel, you pick an option that sounds like what you want to say but Shepard ends up saying somthing completely different from what you were expecting.

[Geth_Prime]

Haven't read back to other posts, so this has probably been mentioned a few times, but I think "cybernetic enhancements" similar to Jensen's augmentations would be cool. Maybe instead of upgrades though, you could switch between different enhancements for each body part. For example, Shepard can choose a muscle strengthening arm enhancement that increases heavy melee damage, OR he can choose an arm lock enhancement that steadies his aim and decreases recoil. And with maybe four or five choices for each body part (head, torso, back, arms, legs) it would offer some nice customisation.

Just one of many possible additions influenced by Deus Ex.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Raizo wrote...

This.

It was quite refreshing ( not to mention shocking at first ) to have Jenson more or less say what was witten on his dialogue wheel. I really don't like the way this was handled in ME2, the way all of Shepard's dialogue choices were paraphrased into a few words the dialogue wheel, you pick an option that sounds like what you want to say but Shepard ends up saying somthing completely different from what you were expecting.

What? He goes off on his own tangents all the time, even after you pick something.

Geth_Prime wrote...

Haven't read back to other posts, so
this has probably been mentioned a few times, but I think "cybernetic
enhancements" similar to Jensen's augmentations would be cool. Maybe
instead of upgrades though, you could switch between different
enhancements for each body part. For example, Shepard can choose a
muscle strengthening arm enhancement that increases heavy melee damage,
OR he can choose an arm lock enhancement that steadies his aim and
decreases recoil. And with maybe four or five choices for each body part
(head, torso, back, arms, legs) it would offer some nice customisation.

Just one of many possible additions influenced by Deus Ex.

They already kind of did this in ME2, though not as extensively. They did full-out do one of your examples (Melee damage).

Modifié par DaringMoosejaw, 13 septembre 2011 - 04:04 .

[Keyatzin]

Sidney wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Keyatzin wrote...
I liked the variety in the way you could handle missions, but that came at the expense of a lot less side missions.

Unfair assessment. There is plenty of side missions. You just have to find them. And the ONE thing that Eidos did good at, that Bio Ware could learn from is how 90% of the side missions intersect with the critical path seamlessly. It's really hard to lose focus of the overarching plot when it's ingrained in most of the side missions.

Well and not only do they interact they're meaningful. Bioware could have 100 bring me McGuffin X type quests and they would not outweigh any of the DX sidequests. Playing DX you realize that a lot of the FO or ME or DAO games that fill up your "to-do" list fill it up with epic amounts of uninteresting crap. I'd rather have a single deep and interesting sidequest than all the secondary side quests in DA2 or the find a mineral junk from ME1.

I did find every side quest, but you guys are right, I didn't realize how poorly I had phrased that line. What I should have said is there were less side missions than I expected, mainly because I felt like I had to scour every inch of the game world; Just like how I had to access every computer and open every locker, and  while I realize the game did not force me to play like that, it did feed into that kind of mentality (especially when one of those rooms with a million drawers to open, contained a Praxis kit.)
So, really I'm trying to say that because I scoured the world so intently, I found it to be much emptier than I was lead to believe. It was really more of an issue related to pacing than anything else.

Modifié par Keyatzin, 13 septembre 2011 - 05:58 .

[Keyatzin]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

twisty77 wrote...

I personally am having a difficult time playing DE:HR, because the controls are extremely clunky and it takes the story a while to get going. The controls in ME2 are not flawless, but at least the left trigger is used for aiming down the sight...

I have to admit I agree that the controls and movement in Deus Ex HR are a little annoying, maybe its because I'm playing on the PC version, maybe its because of the type of game it is, maybe its because they had to make it for all platforms, I don't know.

Still though it wasn't enough of a problem for me that I couldn't get used to it, its kind of a necessary annoyance.

Well I'm playing it on the 360, and I figured the controls were wierd, because it was designed for PCs. There are definitely some very odd design choices in the game. One I had forgot to mention was the slow progression (getting Praxis points.)  But I still liked it.

[Ahglock]

Sidney wrote...

Ahglock wrote...
I don't see it as flawed at its core.  There is nothing wrong with having variable rates of advancement dependent on how the player decides to go at it.  If you want everything, you have that option if you don't want everything don't open every X, kill every Y etc.  There is nothing wrong with putting that responsibility in the hands of the player.  Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses some people value different things to different degrees.  

Really? So a game that advertises "choice" rewards one choice more than others. I mean the "ghost" acheivement also pulls that same "This is a stealth game" card out as well.

Still what you said is wrong. The game doesn't reward you for searching everywhere. The more you search = more passwords found. More passwords found = less XP gained. That is rewarding a specific playstyle and not allow people who value different things to different degrees to flourish in the game. In fact, it is only a flat XP per mission appraoch that does because then the game becomes 100% agnostic to your particular playstyle.

By the way you do not have to use the passwords.  You can ignore them and hack the terminal anyways, so no you do not get less XP.  

And you are wrong about which system is prmotes a wider range of playstyles.  When the missions are the only XP reward you are always the same power at the same times.  The level of your power is a distinct part of a persons playstyle.  XP per encounter allows any playstyle like stealth, combat etc sure, but XP per event you do allows that and it allows weak, average, strong playstyles.  

[Lunatic LK47]

Ahglock wrote...

And you are wrong about which system is prmotes a wider range of playstyles.  When the missions are the only XP reward you are always the same power at the same times.  The level of your power is a distinct part of a persons playstyle.  XP per encounter allows any playstyle like stealth, combat etc sure, but XP per event you do allows that and it allows weak, average, strong playstyles.  

Uh, I don't recall KOTOR 1 providing such options.

[Il Divo]

Ahglock wrote...

I don't see it as flawed at its core.  There is nothing wrong with having variable rates of advancement dependent on how the player decides to go at it.  If you want everything, you have that option if you don't want everything don't open every X, kill every Y etc.  There is nothing wrong with putting that responsibility in the hands of the player.  Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses some people value different things to different degrees.  

It's problematic when the game presents the kind of dichotomy involved in Deus Ex. I prefer Human Revolution, but this was one area the original handled far better. Once obtaining a hacking code, there was no bonus xp involved. It's always in Denton's interests to use the security code, which saves time and hacking devices, while preventing the player from engaging in XP spam.  

A character is ultimately defined by what they cannot do, just as much as by what they can do. Even without xp farming, it is possible to collect the vast majority of useful upgrades, which diminishes the value of replayability.

[Epic777]

Il Divo wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I don't see it as flawed at its core.  There is nothing wrong with having variable rates of advancement dependent on how the player decides to go at it.  If you want everything, you have that option if you don't want everything don't open every X, kill every Y etc.  There is nothing wrong with putting that responsibility in the hands of the player.  Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses some people value different things to different degrees.  

It's problematic when the game presents the kind of dichotomy involved in Deus Ex. I prefer Human Revolution, but this was one area the original handled far better. Once obtaining a hacking code, there was no bonus xp involved. It's always in Denton's interests to use the security code, which saves time and hacking devices, while preventing the player from engaging in XP spam.  

A character is ultimately defined by what they cannot do, just as much as by what they can do. Even without xp farming, it is possible to collect the vast majority of useful upgrades, which diminishes the value of replayability.

Example:

Hack lvl 3 computer
->get XP
->chance of money
->chance Extra Nuke and Stop worms

Find a pocket secretary and use password
->get nothing

[neenee77]

sympathy4saren wrote...

I haven't played this game personally, but I eventually plan to and I've heard a lot of good about it. What elements in the game would you like to see Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect IP incorporate that you feel would help in making it a great game?

It is a good game (DE:HR). Mass effect 3 is going to have some of the same elements in it. you can crouch, roll, jump, sneak. the levels are not linear anymore (according to the developers, just google its everywhere).

[lazuli]

neenee77 wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

I haven't played this game personally, but I eventually plan to and I've heard a lot of good about it. What elements in the game would you like to see Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect IP incorporate that you feel would help in making it a great game?

It is a good game (DE:HR). Mass effect 3 is going to have some of the same elements in it. you can crouch, roll, jump, sneak. the levels are not linear anymore (according to the developers, just google its everywhere).

We can crouch in ME3?  Do you mean just behind cover, or free-crouching like in ME1?

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way. If many of you are referring to running and gunning then that is the problem. I've played through some aspects of the game (not including boss battles) in a more combat style and made it work.

[evilmunky80]

I really don't get all the love for Deus Ex, i've played about 7 or 8 hours of the game now and it just hasn't hooked me, in fact the game has been sitting on my shelf now for nearly a week untouched and ive got no desire to play it and I kind of regret buying it. So I guess I would really like nothing from that game to transfer over to ME3.

[Paula Deen]

I never asked for this.


On a more serious note, I really liked the small moral choices, as well as the chance to talk ABOUT YOURSELF, which ME2 lacked entirely (save for those two lines in LotSB...a DLC).

[Chromie]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way. If many of you are referring to running and gunning then that is the problem. I've played through some aspects of the game (not including boss battles) in a more combat style and made it work.

I played the game three times with out killing people. I don't see how people can play more combat orientated. Adam will die in a few hits at least on the highest difficulty. Your exposing yourself and I love some stealth.

I want Mass Effect 3 to have a dialogue system like DX:HR and persuasion challenges also. That really was a great idea. Non-linear level design would also be great or at least more than just one path to the objective. I doubt Bioware can do a good job with level design though.

[littlezack]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way. If many of you are referring to running and gunning then that is the problem. I've played through some aspects of the game (not including boss battles) in a more combat style and made it work.

The question isn't whether it's possible or not, but why you wouldn't want to in the first place. You get less XP, you spend more time buying ammo or scrounging around for it, you'll probably die more often and the game will generally be a pain in the ass...whereas playing stealth is typically easier, has multiple pathways so you can approach it at different angles, gives you more XP, and allows you to conserve ammo for when you REALLY need it.

[Dave of Canada]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way.

Less variety, options, XP, having to get combat augmentations while you can do fine non-lethal without stealth augs, dialogue (overhearing the people in the room talk and such) and more.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

littlezack wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way. If many of you are referring to running and gunning then that is the problem. I've played through some aspects of the game (not including boss battles) in a more combat style and made it work.

The question isn't whether it's possible or not, but why you wouldn't want to in the first place. You get less XP, you spend more time buying ammo or scrounging around for it, you'll probably die more often and the game will generally be a pain in the ass...whereas playing stealth is typically easier, has multiple pathways so you can approach it at different angles, gives you more XP, and allows you to conserve ammo for when you REALLY need it.

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way.

Less variety, options, XP, having to get combat augmentations while you can do fine non-lethal without stealth augs, dialogue (overhearing the people in the room talk and such) and more.

True.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Ringo12 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way. If many of you are referring to running and gunning then that is the problem. I've played through some aspects of the game (not including boss battles) in a more combat style and made it work.

I played the game three times with out killing people. I don't see how people can play more combat orientated. Adam will die in a few hits at least on the highest difficulty. Your exposing yourself and I love some stealth.

I want Mass Effect 3 to have a dialogue system like DX:HR and persuasion challenges also. That really was a great idea. Non-linear level design would also be great or at least more than just one path to the objective. I doubt Bioware can do a good job with level design though.

Really? In some instances where I botched Stealth tactics, I've had to use more Direct action to save my butt. It worked out in some occassions and other it didn't. (Exploiting AI stupidity is essential)

[Computer_God91]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

twisty77 wrote...

I personally am having a difficult time playing DE:HR, because the controls are extremely clunky and it takes the story a while to get going. The controls in ME2 are not flawless, but at least the left trigger is used for aiming down the sight...

I have to admit I agree that the controls and movement in Deus Ex HR are a little annoying, maybe its because I'm playing on the PC version, maybe its because of the type of game it is, maybe its because they had to make it for all platforms, I don't know.

Really? I never had a problem with the controls in DX:HR. Maybe that's because the first thing I do in every game I play is remap all the controls to my personal universal setup.

[sevach]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way. If many of you are referring to running and gunning then that is the problem. I've played through some aspects of the game (not including boss battles) in a more combat style and made it work.

I kept running out of ammo.

Stupid 5 ammo pickups... this is an full auto assault rifle.
I mean the enemies can pump lead at you like there's no tommorow, and they never seen to run out... yet you search them and there's nothing...

If they wanted people to be mindfull of engaging in combat repeatedly they should have made the AI more dangerous, not make you run out of ammo.

Stupid frustrating game, a shame, cause i quite like the atmosphere and the story seems interesting.

[Computer_God91]

sevach wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

I honestly don't get how no one can play DE:HR in a more combat oriented way. If many of you are referring to running and gunning then that is the problem. I've played through some aspects of the game (not including boss battles) in a more combat style and made it work.

I kept running out of ammo.

Stupid 5 ammo pickups... this is an full auto assault rifle.
I mean the enemies can pump lead at you like there's no tommorow, and they never seen to run out... yet you search them and there's nothing...

If they wanted people to be mindfull of engaging in combat repeatedly they should have made the AI more dangerous, not make you run out of ammo.

Stupid frustrating game, a shame, cause i quite like the atmosphere and the story seems interesting.

At first the guns all dropped plenty of ammo but then the game was considered way too easy so they combatted it by dramtically reducing ammo pickups. However I don't see people's complaints with the game because I never seem to have an ammo shortage issue. If you look around every where and loot all the bodies then you should have plenty of ammo. I sell all my guns and ammo though except for P.E.P.S, Tranq, stun gun, and pistol ammo. Which I have more then enough ammo for all of them. Maybe it's just cause I use hand-to-hand takedowns the majority of the time.

Modifié par Computer_God91, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:56 .

[sevach]

Again, if the game is too easy (and as long as you have enough ammo that really is the case) they should have made the AI more dangerous.

Personally, i only like stealth so i can get the jump on my enemies, i'm not in it for pacifist achievements or anything of the sort, sneaking bores me to tears, but that's how the game wants to be played... a pitty.