431 réponses à ce sujet

[Kasai666]

habitat 67 wrote...

The mood part was a great addition.
Ah, what a great game Deus Ex is though overall. I haven't liked a game this much since Mass 2.

Same here. 

[Boiny Bunny]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

That said, I would love to see the dialogue wheel of DX in ME.  

Why? 

(I apologize if that sounds blunt; I am actually curious)

In short? 

Those goddamn paraphrases are way too vague in ME. I choose an option that I believe will speak in a certain way and it turns up to be something else entirely. I want to actually read what I'm about to say. To me, there's nothing more immersive-breaking when your Shepard says something out of character because I didn't understand the vague paraphrasing. 

The DX system seem to work a lot better in preventing that mistake.

...

There's nothing wrong with that is there? 

This is a matter of taste, obviously, but I much prefer the paraphrase approach from ME. To me, what's immersion breaking is reading something, then hearing the character say the exact same thing. If they're going to type out word for word what my character is saying, I'd rather the character not actually speak the dialogue once I pick it -- a la DA: O or, back in the day, KOTOR.

I'm not sure if you've actually played DX:HR or not, but it really isn't a matter of taste.  DX:HR uses both systems simultaneously.  Very paraphrased options are shown on the screen, and moving the mouse over one of them reveals the full line of dialogue without forcing you to choose it.

If you like to play on 'instantaneous gut instinct' with your responses, and not read the full lines, the system works well.

If you like to read the full line and then pick, the system works well.

I can't for the life of me figure out why Bioware haven't yet implemented this.  It wouldn't actually be that hard to have an option which displays the full dialogue below the wheel when you move over a particular option.

[MrChowderClam]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'm not sure if you've actually played DX:HR or not, but it really isn't a matter of taste.  DX:HR uses both systems simultaneously.  Very paraphrased options are shown on the screen, and moving the mouse over one of them reveals the full line of dialogue without forcing you to choose it.

If you like to play on 'instantaneous gut instinct' with your responses, and not read the full lines, the system works well.

If you like to read the full line and then pick, the system works well.

I can't for the life of me figure out why Bioware haven't yet implemented this.  It wouldn't actually be that hard to have an option which displays the full dialogue below the wheel when you move over a particular option.

This ^

Personally, I liked the fact that you could read out what you were going to say, but I usually only glanced over the text to get a general idea of what the character was going to say, especially since there's time pressure for choosing dialogue in DX:HR (characters will be like "wtf say something" if you take too long).

Anyway, the coolest part about the system in Deus Ex is that it actually encourages you to listen to what the other person is saying and then parse it according to their personality and motives, and then to choose an appropriate resoinse. In Mass Effect - more often than not - you just pick a color and run with it.

[MaaZeus]

Definetly sidequests. Instead of cramming the game full of small "fetch this fetch that" stuff concentrate on quality and length, and most of all and make them feel like they are important just like mainquest. Hell, some sidequests even affect how the mainquest turns out, good or bad. This is how sidequests are done Bioware.

Cant think of anything else ATM.

Unrelated to topic, Holy hell is DEHR a great game! Definetly a game of the year. (unless Skyrim farts golden eggs and cures cancer when its released) Thought it would be Witcher 2 (or Skyrim) but I havent been this addicted to a game since Mass Effect 2 was released, even more addicted than then.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 30 août 2011 - 09:40 .

[Sidney]

Boiny Bunny wrote...


I'm not sure if you've actually played DX:HR or not, but it really isn't a matter of taste.  DX:HR uses both systems simultaneously.  Very paraphrased options are shown on the screen, and moving the mouse over one of them reveals the full line of dialogue without forcing you to choose it.

If you like to play on 'instantaneous gut instinct' with your responses, and not read the full lines, the system works well.

If you like to read the full line and then pick, the system works well.

I can't for the life of me figure out why Bioware haven't yet implemented this.  It wouldn't actually be that hard to have an option which displays the full dialogue below the wheel when you move over a particular option.

There is no way to not read it before you select. Yes it is a roll over but unless you read at the pace of mammalian evolution you almost can't help but read it before you select which means you hear him repeating the same line you've just read which is terrible.

Toss in that while you get the "whole line" that basically means you get the very next line of dialog and then he keeps talking after that so it really doesn't fit the "I want to know exactly what he's saying" bit anyways. Instead of being given 3 words of a 4 sentence dialog you are being given 7 or 8. I guess that is more but not really "enough" to know what he's really gonna say.

[marshalleck]

Sidney wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...


I'm not sure if you've actually played DX:HR or not, but it really isn't a matter of taste.  DX:HR uses both systems simultaneously.  Very paraphrased options are shown on the screen, and moving the mouse over one of them reveals the full line of dialogue without forcing you to choose it.

If you like to play on 'instantaneous gut instinct' with your responses, and not read the full lines, the system works well.

If you like to read the full line and then pick, the system works well.

I can't for the life of me figure out why Bioware haven't yet implemented this.  It wouldn't actually be that hard to have an option which displays the full dialogue below the wheel when you move over a particular option.

There is no way to not read it before you select. Yes it is a roll over but unless you read at the pace of mammalian evolution you almost can't help but read it before you select which means you hear him repeating the same line you've just read which is terrible.

Toss in that while you get the "whole line" that basically means you get the very next line of dialog and then he keeps talking after that so it really doesn't fit the "I want to know exactly what he's saying" bit anyways. Instead of being given 3 words of a 4 sentence dialog you are being given 7 or 8. I guess that is more but not really "enough" to know what he's really gonna say.

It's still better than Shepard saying something unexpected in an unanticipated tone. 

[Sidney]

marshalleck wrote...
It's still better than Shepard saying something unexpected in an unanticipated tone. 

People apparently have issues with that I never did. Reading comprehension, native speaker whatever the case I didn't find it to be an issue and frankly I still get surprises in Deus Ex even with the help but that may just be how awful the voice actor channeling his inner Christian Bale is.  The tone helper in DA2 would be a nice add for ME3 to help people who have issues identifying tones.

[nelly21]

While I am loving the hell out of Deus Ex (second playthrough), the gameplay isn't as similar as one might think. Honestly, I feel DX has more in common with the Elder Scrolls than Mass Effect. That being said, I did enjoy the "passive" consequences in the game. My first playthrough, I took my time exploring the Sarif building and as a result:

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





The hostages died. It was very cool. My only complaint about Mass Effect has always been that the action is disconnected from the storyline. The firefights exist to get you to the next decision. I would love it if more consequences happened on the fly. An example: In ME 2, when you send the specialist into the vent, instead of it being game over if you take too long, let the storyline change slightly to accomodate that character dying.

[Annata]

The Augmentation, since it's entirely unrealistic that humans still run around in their natural bodies.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Annata wrote...

The Augmentation, since it's entirely unrealistic that humans still run around in their natural bodies.

You guys need to read the class descriptions more closely. Most of the classes, especially the tech and combat clasees are Aug'd in some way. Regardless, Shepard himself is heavily Nano AND Mech Aug'd in ME2 as part of the Lazarus project, hence upgrades like Heavy Muscle Weave, etc., etc., which let him/her beat Krogan to death with his/her bare hands.


Regardless of these, if you've played DEHR, you'll know that a lot of gameplay features in that game will also be present in some form in ME3, including a fuller steath system (as opposed to the fetal one in Arrival). ME3 will still be a squad shooter first though, so don't expect a strong focus on stealth missions.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 30 août 2011 - 01:40 .

[DarkPsylocke26]

Kasai666 wrote...

habitat 67 wrote...

The mood part was a great addition.
Ah, what a great game Deus Ex is though overall. I haven't liked a game this much since Mass 2.

Same here. 

That is a good games, but now I am stuck, and can't hack a door because I am getting shot at.

[nitefyre410]

Having beat the game last night in first play though I would like to see the dialogue system adapted in ME. I just like it better its not a black and white or cut and dry as the Red vs Blue system we have now.

[Ramus Quaritch]

marshalleck wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

Er... combat mechanics-wise, I liked being able to use the environment to your advantage, like stealth, hacking turrets/camera's, even throwing fire extinguishers or boxes at enemies- it would be great to see more ways of playing through a level in Mass Effect rather than just shooting everything.

I dropped a refrigerator on a guard from the fifth floor of an apartment building. It was pretty great. Not for him though.

Wow.  You topped the Boondock Saints.  

[Annata]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Annata wrote...

The Augmentation, since it's entirely unrealistic that humans still run around in their natural bodies.

You guys need to read the class descriptions more closely. Most of the classes, especially the tech and combat clasees are Aug'd in some way. Regardless, Shepard himself is heavily Nano AND Mech Aug'd in ME2 as part of the Lazarus project, hence upgrades like Heavy Muscle Weave, etc., etc., which let him/her beat Krogan to death with his/her bare hands.


Regardless of these, if you've played DEHR, you'll know that a lot of gameplay features in that game will also be present in some form in ME3, including a fuller steath system (as opposed to the fetal one in Arrival). ME3 will still be a squad shooter first though, so don't expect a strong focus on stealth missions.

Yes but only Shep. Life extenting artificial organs  and nanotech should be readily availlable on a massive scale. Scientists today already talk about being able to grow every organ in a lab in the next 20 years and doubling the human lifespan in meantime. 250 years from now, lving as long as the Asari should be easily achievebale for humans

[happy_daiz]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Having beat the game last night in first play though I would like to see the dialogue system adapted in ME. I just like it better its not a black and white or cut and dry as the Red vs Blue system we have now.

Having that kind of dialogue system in DA would really help the negative reviews it's gotten, as well. I like it that Jensen says exactly what is shown, plus a little extra. Really, it's the best of both the "paraphrasing" and the voice acting worlds.

I didn't mind the paragon/renegade wheel in ME2, but it didn't really feel like there were many repercussions or benefits for being one or the other. All it really did was leave me feeling better about my paragon decisions. :innocent:

[King Minos]

Some poor sod is going to come into this thread hoping to see if Human revolution is any good only to have the game spoiled lol.

[King Minos]

Oh and we all ready managed to create organs, I think a heart is the latest to be made. The liver was first I think. We already got limbs being made, eye sight restored, artificial eyes and skin grafting. We are not far off really and it's scary. Is organic and robotics Intertwined really our next step in evolution? We will all end up like Saren!

[In Exile]

LPPrince wrote...
This is GREAT. Belltower guys will hound you if they see you, and with less of them around, you can relax a lot more. Stuff like this is what I want to see. Decisions changing things within the same game, not just changing things in later games.

Absolutely. But this was what Bioware always did in the games where they advertised choice. DA:O, ME, ME2. I think DA2 had the most in-game changes, and that isn't saying much, because DA2 had no in-game changes except for like 4 quests that were exclusive. 

[fchopin]

Dialogue.

[Matchy Pointy]

More ways to solve a sitaution then fighting (even though fighting can be fun too).

[kold213]

Arm swords>Omni blades.

[azerSheppard]

Annata wrote...

Yes but only Shep. Life extenting artificial organs  and nanotech should be readily availlable on a massive scale. Scientists today already talk about being able to grow every organ in a lab in the next 20 years and doubling the human lifespan in meantime. 250 years from now, lving as long as the Asari should be easily achievebale for humans

Sorry to say this, as it's going to hurt alot of fans but,

• DEHR = Science fiction                                                                                                                            
• ME      = Science fantasy

About 98% of DE reflects what is going to happen in the near future, almost all of it's tech is currently being researched.
Almost all of it's technology has been predicted to come to existance by the time of the game (same for the original DE)

Mass effect is "so far ahead" that it's borderline magic, and not in a clarke's third law kind of way.

Modifié par azerSheppard, 30 août 2011 - 04:06 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I'm not sure if you've actually played DX:HR or not, but it really isn't a matter of taste.  DX:HR uses both systems simultaneously.  Very paraphrased options are shown on the screen, and moving the mouse over one of them reveals the full line of dialogue without forcing you to choose it.

If you like to play on 'instantaneous gut instinct' with your responses, and not read the full lines, the system works well.

If you like to read the full line and then pick, the system works well.

I can't for the life of me figure out why Bioware haven't yet implemented this.  It wouldn't actually be that hard to have an option which displays the full dialogue below the wheel when you move over a particular option.

It doesn't really work at all like you're implying. You see the full line instantly and what you're calling 'paraphrasing' isn't really such at all. Its a one word tone indicator and the very act of selecting it reveals the entire line.

So yes it is a matter of taste and I didn't like the system at all. It was painful listening to Adam repeat verbatim the line I just read.  With the notable exception of 'social battles' when you have the social aug attached. In those since you're not conversing so much as picking a strategic plan of attack, precision is important.

But overall I vastly prefer the Mass Effect approach. The paraphrases were solid indicators. DA2's paraphrases needed to be closer to MEs though. While I didn't get tripped up there, I could easilly see how others could.

[The Spamming Troll]

you can speed through conversations in DX the same way you can in ME. if you dont like listening to adam repeat what you just read, then skip that line of dialogue.

i dont like ME2s paraphrasing, but thats mainly because i dont like paragon VS renegade. id rahter have DXs aproach to conversations with having the whole line of text, along with the tone in which its being said. i dont even consider much dialogue in ME, i just stick to paragon because as long as i want to be a paragon, i have to be a paragon 100% of the time. comparing ME to DX, id say MEs dialogue is pretty much a disaster.

[Sidney]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

you can speed through conversations in DX the same way you can in ME. if you dont like listening to adam repeat what you just read, then skip that line of dialogue.

i dont like ME2s paraphrasing, but thats mainly because i dont like paragon VS renegade. id rahter have DXs aproach to conversations with having the whole line of text, along with the tone in which its being said. i dont even consider much dialogue in ME, i just stick to paragon because as long as i want to be a paragon, i have to be a paragon 100% of the time. comparing ME to DX, id say MEs dialogue is pretty much a disaster.

Great so your "solution" to a voiced protagonist re-reading dialog is to skip the voice? Not sure you thought out that plan very well.

I'm still not sure where you people get hung up on paragon and renegade. Why do you have to (other than metagaming) be paragon 100% of the time.