1027 réponses à ce sujet

[Eudaemonium]

I like this plan. It let's me fiddle with stats while retaining companions who don't look like generic mook 3568, which I think is important in a visual medium.

[Firky]

Mike, this is my inner RPG monster talking.

*growl* "Why you make DA3 Barbie, kiss girls, dress-up game for girls?" *smash* "Monster not care if Isabela has one dress or ten." *throws a chair* "What Monster want, however, perhaps not necessarily inconsistent, but has not been emphasized in plan." *sits and steeples fingers* "Monster want find diverse armours in game. Monster want meaningful range of armours, that can be optimised for use in combat, and carefully micromanaged. Monster want armours with both easy and punishing requirements. Monster want bonus for item set. Monster want Gloves of Lockpicking and Charisma (non-combat skills.) Monster want have to win really powerful armour. Monster want have to win really powerful armour upgrades. Monster want craft armour out of dead enemy's hide. Monster want armour to have lore and history. Monster want pantaloons. Monster want cursed armour pieces that you can't easily remove. Monster want significant humanoid enemies to drop interesting armour. Monster want followers to look silly in mismatched armour, but appreciates that this plan is probably a decent compromise." *stomps out of room*

People reading this, please don't be offended somehow. I'm not saying that expecting old school RPG facets of gameplay is monstrous. I just, personally, have a very difficult time expressing my many conflicting expectations for the future of the RPG genre, especially ones that might be inconsistent with a DAII style game (because I loved DAII) and I'm in a silly mood. (My unique inner RPG monster is irrational at times, but I think she talks a lot of sense, too.)

Oh, and one more thing. I'm really not into the whole outfits idea, but it would be cool if there were some impact of one outfit or another on story/gameplay. Remember in Ultima VII, you got to Britain and there was a play going on. Some guy was playing the Avatar and asked if you (the Avatar) wanted to audition to be his understudy. If you came back with an Avatar costume equipped (that your paper doll and character was actually already wearing) you got to deliver the lines, "name, job, bye" and were then told that you were terrible and to go away. That kind of thing. Unlocking content due to outfit choice might give the outfits some gameplay meaning, anyway. (Anything that is not tied to gameplay makes Monster want to smash!)

[Apollo Starflare]

Thanks for posting this Mike, this openess with the community is great to see, especially given how the forum can be sometimes.

I support the changes too, they are more or less in line with what I was advocating back when the fixed appearance for followers was announced for DA2; giving each follower at least one meaningful change of clothes that can be unlocked by the player through more means than just romance. I also think the method of equipping standard armor, but purely for statistical means, is roughly the best solution to a tricky problem. The only thing I can think of is to find some way to further distance the armor from what it is 'usually' and have it's name change to represent a similar armor upgrade to those seen in DA2.

For instance, Merrill would have a Dalish Belt, Halla Horn buttons etc. And any armor you equipped into the 'Halla horn' slot would grant the stats it would normally but under a new name, as if it was just a new and improved addition to her standard outfit.

However that seems convoluted. Perhaps it could be as simple as certain 'grades' of armor being equipped change the outfit in subtle ways, heavy making it bulkier in some way and light armor the opposite. Or perhaps colours, different equipped armor sets coming with different colours (ala Origins and to some degree DA2) which then alter the companion outfit colour in turn.

It would definitely be a nice touch if the armor you equipped has -some- effect more than just statistical, but on the other hand it would be nice just to be able to control companions armor upgrades manually again full stop.

[FedericoV]

Thx Mike. The new system seems interesting on paper and I would like to experiment it comin' DA3.

But I admit having some doubts about the validity of the effort, doubts that have more to do with the loot scaling system of DA2 (and even DA:O) than the actual game mechanic that you have presented. I mean, if enemy scales to your level and loot drops scale to the level of your enemy just like DA2 (wich is an abomination to both god and man that unfortunately has become the rule in contemporary CRPGs) if basically there is no Carsomyr +5 or Flail of Ages in the game if not for DLC items or endgames items or personal quest items that you cannot receive outside the patterns estabilished by the linearity of the story... what is the point of all this effort in itemization? Is it really necessary to have customization linked to items? Would have been better to have all linked to charachter progression if not for weapons with a deeper system than DA2?

I mean, I understand why you made certain choices in DA2. Excessive itemization is nearly pointless when loot and enemy scale to your level... so you cut the middle man and streamline a feature that was unnecessary.  I'm not sure that the reintroduction of item customization will be that interesting since in the framework of DA2 it will only give the illusion of choice and not real customization in the current linear system. 

Honestly, I fear that you (with you I mean all the DA team) are still having the same problem of vision experienced in DA2. You should decide if you want to make a game focused on cinematic and storytelling like ME2 or a proper D&Dish game like BG or in some way DA:O... then go for it without middle grounds or second thoughts about the inevitable losses in term of fanbase. You are trying to adjust the franchise to too many diverging instances and I fear that continuing to work on the game in that way, then even DA3 will be a polirizing frankenstein of game design. I hope to be wrong and I will support Bioware and the DA franchise no matter what, but I want to express my fear.

Modifié par FedericoV, 29 août 2011 - 10:30 .

[Kidd]

I think this is pretty darn great, especially with the automatically upgrading non-gear part.

- Allows us to change looks of our NPCs now and then? Check.
- Allows us to customise the stats on our NPCs' equipment with more than simply runes? Check.
- Allows a player to play on Casual and just enjoy the plot without micromanagement? Check.

Graduated with flying colours. Spread out your hands; receive candy~~!

[Darth Wraith]

I really like the sound of this. Hope this is indeed the direction you take from here.

[kingjezza]

Y'know the way to create iconic characters is by good writing, Morrigan never became less iconic because you stuck her in some manky green mage robe, it's the character she is that makes her so, not her damn outfit, but hey what do I know, you got more cosplayers for DA2 so this must be the way to go.

If I equip a certain set of armour I want to see a character in that set, not see the character stay in their default, if that is the case you may as well just offer an armour stat upgrade system. As far as I can see nothing is really changing, except we may get to choose a couple ways for our characters to look instead of only one, oh joy.

You know what might work, you keep the way it was in Origins but instead of creating (insert number here) boring mage robes that all look pretty much the same, you create the same number of robes but put a bit of effort into making them decent and unique looking, same applies for armour. Hey problem solved, the best of both Worlds, fully customisable companions and lots of different unique armours/robes to dress them in, but still the players choice.

[Guilebrush]

Great to hear this is in the DA2 pipeline. When "signature looks" for follower characters was initially announced last year this was precisely the system I had envisioned and something I can totally get behind. It's nice to see DA2 continually getting pushed towards realizing its true potential even if it is a shame that it's getting there through additional content rather than being that way from launch. (sorry had to say it)

Still, I applaud the way the DA team has taken fan feedback to heart; an especially difficult task given the amount of noise permeating the forums. Hopefully these changes do indeed push through and that more surprises lay in store for DA2 and wherever the franchise decides to go in the more distant future! Best of luck, and I'm sure there's plenty of eager anticipation for this.

Oh as an aside since we're discussing inventory management systems here is there any chance of seeing a quick weapon switch feature sometime in the future? One of my personal giant pet peeves in DA2 is having to enter a menu screen [inventory] mid combat in order to deal with enemy immunities. This is a giant break in the action and combat pacing which could have easily been mitigated by allowing us to place weapon set ups on the hotbar or some similar feature. Sorry about the tangent; had to get that off my chest, carry on.

Modifié par Guilebrush, 29 août 2011 - 10:59 .

[Gunderic]

So we get... unlockable alternative items, like in Mass Effect 2?

Pretty much what I've been expecting.

[MarauderESP]

well, if we get more than 3 per companion, at least is more than we got last time, and if i got it right we can use all that armor that we couldn´t use and ended in the chest

the ME2 system was a crap³ , we go from 30000000000..... items to 0, would be better to have 10 uniques armor each with specific stats tha u could use deppending on mission, and i will never pay (DLC) for a cosmetic change with no content for the game 

Modifié par MarauderESP, 29 août 2011 - 11:19 .

[Gunderic]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Filament wrote...

It's not the best of both worlds... it's the best of one world (unique appearances) and a half-measure of the other (statistical but not visual customization). You might say having full customization would hinder the unique appearance aspect slightly (though I think that effect is being exaggerated)... maybe true. Maybe there is no "best of both worlds" here.

How do we lose anything if we allow "iconic" appearances and apperance customisation w/visual effect? We had the choice with Morrigan, and yet plenty of people kept her in those robes while others equipped her with heavy plate and whatnot. Everybody wins.

Designers lose out on the ability for characters to comment on the follower appearances. If Varric is wearing heavy plate armor and a helmet, how does the player react when Isabela comments about Varric's chest hair?

"Oo, I wonder if she's seen him naked...?" is how I would react

Though banter about how lovely Isabela's ass looks in her dress/skirt isn't all that important anyway. There are many other things to banter about...

It totally changes the entire context of the banter though. The whole thing was about Varric catching Isabela staring at his chest, and even uses the "My eyes are up here" line. That doesn't make a lick of sense if he's fully covered up, and is wearing generic armor. You lose the comments on Fenris' lyrium tattoos and Isabela's boots. Future characters may have interesting scars, specific physical features, or deformities, but generic armors make all that impossible as well. You may not think that sort of thing is important, but the designers clearly do.

*BioWare designers, clearly do.

[billy the squid]

Gunderic wrote...

So we get... unlockable alternative items, like in Mass Effect 2?

Pretty much what I've been expecting.

And more than likely the inevitable item packs for £8 each, whoop de f*ckin' do.

Edit: I will wait to see how this turns out in the long run, but I retain my misgivings over the supposed changes with refrence to "best of both worlds"

Modifié par billy the squid, 29 août 2011 - 11:32 .

[Gunderic]

Brockololly wrote...

alex90c wrote...
Yes, no visual effect is obviously the best of both worlds. Oh look at this cool armour I got, looks pretty amazing on my main character! Think I'll give it to companion X, he needs it more. Oh look, there's no appearance change.

You just can't appreciate that level of innovation BioWare is striving for.

I'm appreciating it by playing the Witcher 2 and Deus Ex 3 ( soon ). 

[Shepard Lives]

This is great news. Seems to me that it strikes the perfect balance (especially considering the use of resources) between stat customization and visual uniqueness.

It's really great to see the devs care about the community so much even after the unbelievable unpleasantness they've been subjected to for the past year or so. I don't think any other company holds fan feedback in such high regard. I love you guys.

[Shadowlit_Rogue]

I like the sound of this! Being able to equip followers but still having them maintain their "iconic" look sounds like a good compromise. And I definitely, definitely like the idea of having some equipment having a visual impact on the follower's iconic appearance. I'd be perfectly fine with all of that, especially if these follower armor sets were obtained through interesting means. (i.e. - through exploration, crazy ass quests, follower plot points) As long as they feel like they've been earned in some way, I guess.

I'm not quite sure if I'd like something similar applied to the player character, since I just like having more options open for customization in that regard.

[Spell Singer]

Two questions:

1. Just a clarification, will the different looks be freely selectable once unlocked and will the player be informed that it is available? I didn't realize there was a "romance look" for Isabella and I would never have thought it required using some potion.

2. Will there be upgrades as per the current system or is that gone? I'm not sure I see what the point of equipping specific items for stat bonuses when you have the current item bonus system which does the same thing and could simply be expanded upon but I may be misunderstanding something. If I have avaline with a basic set or armour and then equip say a pair of gloves I can't see how her new armour value can be the sum of the basic suits value and the gloves value without seriously skewing things, with all pieces equiped you would end up doubling or more her armour value...to prevent that the basic armour value would have to be close to pathetic which makes it pointless. Maybe I'm being pesimistic but I can see this as being open to some very serious min-max munchkinism.

But otherwise it looks like a good basis for the system.

[Arthur Cousland]

Anyone played Tales of Vesperia? 

In there, all of the companions had a default outfit, similar to DA2, but over the corse of the game, you could unlock many additional outfits, so you were never stuck with the same look.  If you wanted someone to fight in armor or a swimsuit, you had the option and could go back and forth.

[Eollodwyn]

This is pretty much the perfect system, in my opinion.  I really hope they stick to this!

[Rovay]

I approve of this compromise and look forward to its implementation.

Modifié par Rovay, 29 août 2011 - 12:29 .

[Siven80]

I approve +15

[willholt]

Mr.House wrote...

willholt wrote...

Sorry... this system doesn't really work for me. Removing the ability for me to have my party looking like I want them to is a deal-breaker for me.

I guess it's no DA3 for me, until or unless someone mods the capacity to allow the player to put any in-game armour on any character...

<sigh>... Shame to see form winning over function.

Seeing as there is a mod in DA2 that ;ets you do that in DA2, there will probaly be a mod like that in DA3.

Plus this is a deal breaker for you? Just wow...... You're still getting your stats, you can still put diffrent equipment on them. Just because you can't see it means nothing when it still does it's function. Also the bolded part contradicts your whole point....

No contradiction

I change companion armour to change stats AND to change appearance.... When one of those goes out the window so Bioware can keep the characters looking unique (or to sell item companion packs), then function has given way to form

... and yes, it is THE deal breaker... What might be trivial to you might be very important to someone else.

I appreciate the devs being candid and upfront... It means that those of us who had hopes need no longer waste time keeping those hopes up.

Finally, this solution on companion armour is not a compromise... It is the DA2 system with a small bone thrown in DAO's direction. A true compromise would be FULL companion customisation and ALSO each companion having one or several unique (and upgradeable) outfits. In other words a souped up 'Morrigan' system.

I also suspect that the nature of the 'compromise' arrived at for companion appearance is going to be how the rest of the much-touted 'Best of DA2 and DAO' plays out... Basically DA2 with the occasional DAO bone. Great for some, I'm sure... For me, not so much.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Firky wrote...

Mike, this is my inner RPG monster talking. [...]

Hehe! And I remember that Ultima VII scene. The outfit wasn't armour or anything no point to it at all except for the quest, but it was cool to do considering you *were* the Avatar auditioning for your own role. XD Other wearable items that caused NPCs to react included the Black Badge in U5 (you could get imprisoned and your friends executed without it), the Fellowship Medallion in U7:BG (some people would clam up, others open up), then of course U7:SI went a bit crazy with the whole Serpent Regalia, but the point is people noticed what you were wearing. Heck, in U5 merchants screamed at you if you rode a horse into their shoppes. In DA no one bats a lash if you happen to be wearing robes that look utterly frightful and smell like sweat.

But it'd be cool if they did.

[Darth Krytie]

willholt wrote...

A true compromise would be FULL companion customisation and ALSO each companion having one or several unique (and upgradeable) outfits. In other words a souped up 'Morrigan' system.

That's not really a compromise so much as having both systems there in their entirety.  Compromise is where both parties want something different, but since entirely pleasing one side would displease the other, you land somewhere in the middle. Which is what Mike is giving us.


However, I'm not saying you don't have a right to call it a dealbreaker.  You do. I just don't think what you're suggesting is in anyway a "true" compromise.