1027 réponses à ce sujet

[Gunderic]

Mr.House wrote...

willholt wrote...

Sorry... this system doesn't really work for me. Removing the ability for me to have my party looking like I want them to is a deal-breaker for me.

I guess it's no DA3 for me, until or unless someone mods the capacity to allow the player to put any in-game armour on any character...

<sigh>... Shame to see form winning over function.

Seeing as there is a mod in DA2 that ;ets you do that in DA2, there will probaly be a mod like that in DA3.

Plus this is a deal breaker for you? Just wow...... You're still getting your stats, you can still put diffrent equipment on them. Just because you can't see it means nothing when it still does it's function. Also the bolded part contradicts your whole point....

Just curious, where can I find that mod? I don't know if this can be done with unique character models.

edit: I think you might have showed me a few custom item work on companions, but I don't think that was full customization ( ? ). Hope I got that right.

Modifié par Gunderic, 29 août 2011 - 01:03 .

[willholt]

Gunderic wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

willholt wrote...

Sorry... this system doesn't really work for me. Removing the ability for me to have my party looking like I want them to is a deal-breaker for me.

I guess it's no DA3 for me, until or unless someone mods the capacity to allow the player to put any in-game armour on any character...

<sigh>... Shame to see form winning over function.

Seeing as there is a mod in DA2 that ;ets you do that in DA2, there will probaly be a mod like that in DA3.

Plus this is a deal breaker for you? Just wow...... You're still getting your stats, you can still put diffrent equipment on them. Just because you can't see it means nothing when it still does it's function. Also the bolded part contradicts your whole point....

Just curious, where can I find that mod?

Go here:

http://www.dragonagenexus.com/

You'll have to search, as I think there's more than one companion armour mod.

[Nerevar-as]

Sounds better than DA2, but you get iconic characters through good writing. Origins characters didn´t look that iconic excluding Morrigan, but I think they are far more popular than most of 2´s party. Their personalities made them iconic, having more than one layer and feeling more like characters than stereotypes.

[R0vena]

Are we talking about future DA 2 products or about DA 3 already?

In any case, great news. The ability to choose the armor for companions will make loot have more sense (it is practically useless now after all DLC item packs) and distributing loot is a big enjoyment for me. I don't mind iconic appearances, can accept both ways - iconic or customized - but ability to choose armor stats is important for me.

Modifié par R0vena, 29 août 2011 - 01:10 .

[Gunderic]

willholt wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

willholt wrote...

Sorry... this system doesn't really work for me. Removing the ability for me to have my party looking like I want them to is a deal-breaker for me.

I guess it's no DA3 for me, until or unless someone mods the capacity to allow the player to put any in-game armour on any character...

<sigh>... Shame to see form winning over function.

Seeing as there is a mod in DA2 that ;ets you do that in DA2, there will probaly be a mod like that in DA3.

Plus this is a deal breaker for you? Just wow...... You're still getting your stats, you can still put diffrent equipment on them. Just because you can't see it means nothing when it still does it's function. Also the bolded part contradicts your whole point....

Just curious, where can I find that mod?

Go here:

http://www.dragonagenexus.com/

You'll have to search, as I think there's more than one companion armour mod.

I tried one, but that only allows weapon changes for companions ( and armour changes for Hawke, I think ).

Modifié par Gunderic, 29 août 2011 - 01:14 .

[element eater]

Hmmm this sounds good not what id hoped but still good

my hopes regarding this idea are that

1 - the differant outfits are significantly differant enough to allow differant visual styles rather then simply more of the same style,  that way if you dont like one style others will be differant enough for you to enjoy 

2 - the outfits are found in a large variaty of ways so that it feels organic to the game play rather then simply something you unlock

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Additionally, we are experimenting with armor equipped to the followers having some additional visual impact on the follower's iconic appearance, but we'll dig deeper on that as we get closer to a final implementation. As a general rule, you should expect that any deviation from the ideas outlined above would be towards more visual customization, rather than less.

also this would be great hope it can be done

Modifié par element eater, 29 août 2011 - 01:24 .

[Gunderic]

willholt wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

willholt wrote...

Sorry... this system doesn't really work for me. Removing the ability for me to have my party looking like I want them to is a deal-breaker for me.

I guess it's no DA3 for me, until or unless someone mods the capacity to allow the player to put any in-game armour on any character...

<sigh>... Shame to see form winning over function.

Seeing as there is a mod in DA2 that ;ets you do that in DA2, there will probaly be a mod like that in DA3.

Plus this is a deal breaker for you? Just wow...... You're still getting your stats, you can still put diffrent equipment on them. Just because you can't see it means nothing when it still does it's function. Also the bolded part contradicts your whole point....

No contradiction

I change companion armour to change stats AND to change appearance.... When one of those goes out the window so Bioware can keep the characters looking unique (or to sell item companion packs), then function has given way to form

... and yes, it is THE deal breaker... What might be trivial to you might be very important to someone else.

I appreciate the devs being candid and upfront... It means that those of us who had hopes need no longer waste time keeping those hopes up.

Finally, this solution on companion armour is not a compromise... It is the DA2 system with a small bone thrown in DAO's direction. A true compromise would be FULL companion customisation and ALSO each companion having one or several unique (and upgradeable) outfits. In other words a souped up 'Morrigan' system.

I also suspect that the nature of the 'compromise' arrived at for companion appearance is going to be how the rest of the much-touted 'Best of DA2 and DAO' plays out... Basically DA2 with the occasional DAO bone. Great for some, I'm sure... For me, not so much.

I kind of agree with this. Unlockable alternative outfits not only limit appearance customization, but also make finding new loot less interesting.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon Age 3 will come along with an 'auto-equip' setting for companions so players won't have to keep track of switching items manually.

[Morroian]

willholt wrote...

Finally, this solution on companion armour is not a compromise... It is the DA2 system with a small bone thrown in DAO's direction. A true compromise would be FULL companion customisation and ALSO each companion having one or several unique (and upgradeable) outfits. In other words a souped up 'Morrigan' system. 

To do that would undoubtedly require foregoing unique body models. And yes it is a compromise since it gives back more control over companions.

willholt wrote...

I also suspect that the nature of the 'compromise' arrived at for companion appearance is going to be how the rest of the much-touted 'Best of DA2 and DAO' plays out... Basically DA2 with the occasional DAO bone. Great for some, I'm sure... For me, not so much.

Bioware are willing to compromise pity some of the 'fans' aren't.

[Gunderic]

element eater wrote...


Hmmm this sounds good not what id hoped but still good

my hopes regarding this idea are that

1 - the differant outfits are significantly differant enough to allow differant visual styles rather then simply more of the same style,  that way if you dont like one style others will be differant enough for you to enjoy 

2 - the outfits are found in a large variaty of ways so that it feels organic to the game play rather then simply something you unlock

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Additionally, we are experimenting with armor equipped to the followers having some additional visual impact on the follower's iconic appearance, but we'll dig deeper on that as we get closer to a final implementation. As a general rule, you should expect that any deviation from the ideas outlined above would be towards more visual customization, rather than less.

also this would be great hope it can be done

I've got to wonder how easy it's going to be to design a wide variety of different outfits for unique characters. It seems costly even to have 3 unique outfits per party member, unless they make the differences very subtle.

[Aliuex]

Happy to hear the clarification of what was said at PAX. The one thing that had me worried was the companion customization coming back, but, to me, this system sounds like an excellent compromise. I get to play around with the companions stats (if I feel like it), and they get to keep their appearance.

[Gunderic]

Morroian wrote...

willholt wrote...

Finally, this solution on companion armour is not a compromise... It is the DA2 system with a small bone thrown in DAO's direction. A true compromise would be FULL companion customisation and ALSO each companion having one or several unique (and upgradeable) outfits. In other words a souped up 'Morrigan' system. 

To do that would undoubtedly require foregoing unique body models. And yes it is a compromise since it gives back more control over companions.

willholt wrote...

I also suspect that the nature of the 'compromise' arrived at for companion appearance is going to be how the rest of the much-touted 'Best of DA2 and DAO' plays out... Basically DA2 with the occasional DAO bone. Great for some, I'm sure... For me, not so much.

Bioware are willing to compromise pity some of the 'fans' aren't.

BioWare's willingness to compromise on elementary roleplaying game-specific design decisions with their fanbase isn't a reason to rejoice.

[twincast]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
<snip>

Well, I can deal with that. And frankly pretty well so, actually. The more visual impact the equipped armor pieces end up having, the better, but as a compromise the current outline promises to be rather splendid.

[tishyw]

So, unless I'm missing something, what Mike is suggesting is a system pretty much the same as DA2, with armor loot replacing the companion upgrade slots and unlockable recolours of their "iconic" outfits that we can choose from?
Does that about sum it up?
Judging from the comments the only way I can see this move being really popular is by giving us more than one 'iconic' look for each companion, and allowing us to choose from those, let's hope that's what they're planning and not just recolours.

Modifié par tishyw, 29 août 2011 - 02:02 .

[Maconbar]

tishyw wrote...

So, unless I'm missing something, what Mike is suggesting is a system pretty much the same as DA2, with armor loot replacing the companion upgrade slots and unlockable recolours of their "iconic" outfits that we can choose from?
Does that about sum it up?
Judging from the comments the only way I can see this move being really popular is by giving us more than one 'iconic' look for each companion, and allowing us to choose from those, let's hope that's what they're planning and not just recolours.

Where did ML state that it was only unlockable recolors?

[billy the squid]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Additionally, we are experimenting with armor equipped to the followers having some additional visual impact on the follower's iconic appearance, but we'll dig deeper on that as we get closer to a final implementation. As a general rule, you should expect that any deviation from the ideas outlined above would be towards more visual customization, rather than less.

Whilst I can understand that that through sheer practicality there may be issues with character models ie: elves, dwarves, humans, both men and women wearing the same armour.
 
I would like to see a specific set of armour ie: Effort Plate Armour, visually replace the companion's "iconic" armour, whilst the standard or more generic plate or chainmail would simply remain the companion specific versions, but shift somewhat visually. To illustrate the change in armour detail, weight coverage etc. of the new armour.

As I believe such armours historically were usually custom made for the wearer, I would be amenable to something like this, so long as there remains some differentiation between what weight of armour one is placing on the character.Particularly if the heaviest unique armours are in effect going to obscure the form of the wearer to a degree, then I don't see it as so much of a problem if the character model doesn't show through. Nor would I see the loss of that character's iconic look as an issue as the replacement armour is unique in itself, such as unique armour sets in DAO.

What I can see as a problem may be the lighter armours on characters such as Isabela, I'm unsure on how leather or light armour would be handled in this context as logically the body model would show through the armour, fitting the form of the wearer, rather than being an impassive shield as is the case with larger plate mail armours. In such a situation i would not begrudge Isabela's, let us say, "assets" not remaining exactly the same in terms of display or movement due to the nature of the coverage by the lighter leather armours.

But, it seems that this may not be possible, if there is a trend of concessions for appeasement rather than a true comprimise.

Modifié par billy the squid, 29 août 2011 - 02:30 .

[Cutlass Jack]

tishyw wrote...

So, unless I'm missing something, what Mike is suggesting is a system pretty much the same as DA2, with armor loot replacing the companion upgrade slots and unlockable recolours of their "iconic" outfits that we can choose from?
Does that about sum it up?
Judging from the comments the only way I can see this move being really popular is by giving us more than one 'iconic' look for each companion, and allowing us to choose from those, but from Mikes comments I don't think that's what they're planning.

What he's saying is that for companions, Visuals and items worn will be entirely separate.

Visually, it will be like Mass Effect 2. You'll have multiple visuals for each companion that you'll be able to swap between once unlocked.

Your companions will also have the same armor slots as the player but purely for stat purposes. Putting items there will not affect the visual.

So say you find a great suit of heavy armor that you can't use but would be great for Aveline. You can equip it on her just as you could in DAO, and she'll fully benefit from the armor rating and bonuses. But visually, you'll still be seeing her Iconic look.

[Savber100]

*grumbles*

You know what? Just give us MODDING TOOLS for DA3 and I'll gladly go with this current direction.

Please? Pretty please?

Other than that, I admit I'm a little disappointed that there won't be any visual changes when you equip different armor.

Hopefully we'll gave 5-6 different sets per companion.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
That is a point of concern, actually.

I think this will depend on how 'iconic' Bioware wants their companions to be. If there are too many options to choose from (or the variations between these options are too distinct) then one could argue no single costume is iconic, unless you want to say the first one is solely by default.

Well imo, if Morrigan had 3 robes, her default one, the Sacred Ashes one and something like Flemeth in DA2, she would still look "iconic" and have the same outfit tone (feathers, purple...etc).

But yes, I want to know what they have in mind.

[RagingCyclone]

Savber100 wrote...

*grumbles*

You know what? Just give us MODDING TOOLS for DA3 and I'll gladly go with this current direction.

Please? Pretty please?

Other than that, I admit I'm a little disappointed that there won't be any visual changes when you equip different armor.

Hopefully we'll gave 5-6 different sets per companion.

Unfortunately you won't see toolsets anymore. As long as they release item packs as DLC, and people buy them, they have no reason to release a toolset. It would take away from potential sales. Like or not those are the cold hard business facts.

[Riloux]

[*]Followers will have their equipment slots restored and armor you equip in those slots will have the expected statistical impact on the follower, including enchantments, bonuses and base armor stats, along with requirements to wear the armor applying. As per above, adding armor pieces to these slots will not impact the follower's appearance directly, only their statistics.

I don't know why you didn't do this in the first place. Did no one suggest the idea?

[Nerevar-as]

It would probably be a nightmare with so many companions, but having each armor have a different model for each character would be the best balance IMHO. There´s still the iconic look and it allows for player management. Think of the differences between male and female models from Origins but applied to the party.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Followers will continue to have iconic appearances. ... Ultimately, we believe that the strong visual identity given to characters by iconic appearances is an important part of their identity.

Win.  No other words.  Win.

Followers will have more than one appearance. Whether they be unlocked by advancing the core story, plot reward, some crazy ass crafting quest, romance or completing a personal plot, we would like the followers to have more than one appearance over the course of the game.
...
To do show allows them to progress, grow and react to changing circumstances, all of which help us tell a visual story with the followers.
...
Functionally, imagine going to the camp in Origins or your follower's base in DAII and clicking on a pack or wardrobe, and opening an interface that lets you pick which of their outfits you want them to wear.

Win.  I used Black Emporium to give Hawke a new hair style every chapter.  It really added a lot to my story and the screenshots when I look back on them.  I like the idea that companions could change visually as time goes on. 

Seriously, please:  Have a central screen where I can manage all my companion's gear at one.  Not a party location for their actual bodies, but a central screen for their gear and stats like the UI in DAO.

Followers will have their equipment slots restored and armor you equip in those slots will have the expected statistical impact on the follower, including enchantments, bonuses and base armor stats, along with requirements to wear the armor applying.

...

Followers who have no armor equipped by the player will be automatically equipped with a "basic" suit of armor that progresses automatically with them as they level, similar to the "basic" weapons that equip if you remove your real weapons in DAII.

I really liked how DA2 handled companion gear, but this is a "best of both worlds" I can get behind.  I don't like that it will only be "servicable."  I'd prefer "good."  But I guess that is just semantics.  :)  I'm 100% going to have them roll with the basic stuff, but I don't want to be penalized for it.  My $60 are just as good as the $60 you get from someone who will combs through gear for every character and I don't think I should have harder boss fights because I have other things to do than min/max.

Additionally, we are experimenting with armor equipped to the followers having some additional visual impact on the follower's iconic appearance, but we'll dig deeper on that as we get closer to a final implementation.

I like this idea, FWIW!  It would be like getting Aveline a "chain coat" upgrade to her basic armor and actually seeing the chain show up on her basic armor model?


So long as the "fun to work" ratio stays strongly slanted to fun, I'll be ok.

[Salaya]

I'm glad this decision is being seriously considered. As a player who initiated in rpgs with jrpgs, I dont have problems with customizable armor slots without visual impact. I never understood why DA2 didn't had that option.

As long as customize armor slots keep appearing, and equiping companions is present, I don't think the visual impact of those actions is crucial. In fact, I like the idea of separating visual appearance of equipable armor.

So, good ideas

[happy_daiz]

While I'm glad to hear that companions would be able to change their clothes more than once per playthrough, I'm still a little skeptical. Just a little. I'll get into that in a moment...

Is there any reason that when an "upgrade" is added to a companion's armor, that it couldn't show up as a subtle change? Similar to Shepard's N7 armor upgrades in ME2 -  (Aegis Vest, Capacitor Chestplate, etc.), the entire armor wouldn't have to change; just a small portion of it would, if an upgrade is applied.

For instance, using DA2 as an example, you could show us Merrill's Halla Horn Buckles and Carved Ironwood Buttons; for Isabela, the Rigid Boning, etc., etc. Does the entire outfit have to change to add these subtle details?

Here is where I'm skeptical. BW knows how upset its fan got when we felt like our choices didn't matter. Is this not another example of that? If we buy, find, (or acquire by questionable means) an armor upgrade, we want to see it. It's a trophy of sorts, after all. If you want to please the fanbase, you may want to keep that in mind.

I'm just sayin...