1027 réponses à ce sujet

[rak72]

What Merin said.

If people want to keep the companions in their "iconic" clothes, that's fabulous. But why should they be bothered by the way the rest of us want to play our game. They do not need to sit in our living rooms watching us control Morrigan in heavy plate. Just make a toggle to turn off the iconic look, that's all we want.

[FaeQueenCory]

This... is slightly less than I would like.... but this is more than acceptable!

This gives me great hope for DA3.

(even though I'd like appearance to reflect what armor they have equipped... this middle ground where I can adjust their stats but having them retain their custom look... is good enough of a departure from that atrociously limiting DA2 model.
Honestly, if it wasn't for Ishmaeltheforsaken's DFA mod, I seriously doubt I could play DA2 more than once... and a few other mods and Legacy, but hers is the biggest improvement.)

[willholt]

rak72 wrote...

What Merin said.

If people want to keep the companions in their "iconic" clothes, that's fabulous. But why should they be bothered by the way the rest of us want to play our game. They do not need to sit in our living rooms watching us control Morrigan in heavy plate. Just make a toggle to turn off the iconic look, that's all we want.

Exactly!!!

What rak72 said x10000000

[ipgd]

willholt wrote...

I predict three things:

1/ There will be no modding tools

2/ Having made this 'compromise', Bioware will now feel free to spam those who buy DA3 with DLC companion pack after companion pack. Had they tried this pre-compromise (and for DA2) the uproar of disapproval would have been deafening. The compromise removes a substantial number of 'roarers' and lessens the sting. Companion Outfit DLC will now become a staple of the DA franchise.

3/ Because of prediction number 2... DA3 modding will be made as difficult as possible. Wouldn't want those modders cutting into the bottom line by making companion packs less relevant, now would we?

You know that the toolset never actually helped any with making new armor meshes, right?

But I guess that doesn't matter because that doesn't help you make alarmist conspiracy theories.

[element eater]

@Akatuma&MrHouse

well while i can't speak for others i can say that stats arent the single most important aspect to me(and i dont believe that growing up would change this). whats important to me is having a party that i have control over, both aestheticly and in terms of stats. while having control of one thing is good id rather have control of both. If i don't like how a character looks i wont use them. If i have control of that its not an issue but if you have someone like Fenris say who i simply dont like aesthicly, that character might as well not be in the game because i'm not going to use them. Which as i stated earlier is why i hope the various character costumes are significantly different in appearance so that this might not happen

in addition its nice for you companions equipment to reflect what they are wearing which i feel is varly self explanitory

Modifié par element eater, 29 août 2011 - 04:30 .

[ipgd]

rak72 wrote...

What Merin said.

If people want to keep the companions in their "iconic" clothes, that's fabulous. But why should they be bothered by the way the rest of us want to play our game. They do not need to sit in our living rooms watching us control Morrigan in heavy plate. Just make a toggle to turn off the iconic look, that's all we want.

Despite what people on the BSN seem to believe, toggles do not magically solve all problems and erase any implementation issues that might be present in either of the modes. The necessity of generic body models when using an equipable armor system still impacts the implementation of unique companion body models and armor sets.

[rak72]

Maconbar wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'm baffled by the reaction to this. You get full control of your companions stats again, I thought that would be important, but apparently people are more interested in playing dress up.

Why baffled, it's not rocket science? Again, how many here would have liked the option of changing the appearance of at least one or two of their peers in DA2?

I would be all for this but I don't want to go back to all the companions having the same body.

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Edit - if modders on Nexus were able to accomplish this,   it being cost prohibitive can not be an argument.

Modifié par rak72, 29 août 2011 - 04:38 .

[Anarya]

Wow, just stumbled on this thread and I have to say I'm really pleased! This sounds pretty much exactly like the sort of compromise I was hoping for and I'm overjoyed that the companions will have more than one set of armor. This probably won't satisfy everyone (because that's impossible) but I think it'll go over pretty well when the game releases.

[Atakuma]

I'm sorry for my poorly worded post. What I should have said is that I don't understand the point of acting so indignant over this, seeing that nothing is official yet, and this isn't exactly unexpected.

Modifié par Atakuma, 29 août 2011 - 04:35 .

[Leonia]

Atakuma wrote...

I'm sorry for my poorly worded post. What I should have said is that I don't understand the point of acting so indignant over this, seeing that nothing is official yet and this isn't exactly unexpected.

But it's the BSN, if the devs are doing one thing right, they must be doing a thousand other things wrong. Seriously, this is much better than the system in DA2 and it shows a willingness to compromise and that the devs DO care about feedback and yet.. it's not enough for some fans. Never is enough.

[willholt]

rak72 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'm baffled by the reaction to this. You get full control of your companions stats again, I thought that would be important, but apparently people are more interested in playing dress up.

Why baffled, it's not rocket science? Again, how many here would have liked the option of changing the appearance of at least one or two of their peers in DA2?

I would be all for this but I don't want to go back to all the companions having the same body.

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Well said!

This is what I completely fail to understand. It's almost like people are saying 'This is how I want to play the game,and I demand that no one else have an option to play it differently'

About the kindest thing I can say about that attitude is, it's pathetically selfish..

[Maconbar]

rak72 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'm baffled by the reaction to this. You get full control of your companions stats again, I thought that would be important, but apparently people are more interested in playing dress up.

Why baffled, it's not rocket science? Again, how many here would have liked the option of changing the appearance of at least one or two of their peers in DA2?

I would be all for this but I don't want to go back to all the companions having the same body.

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Edit - if modders on Nexus were able to accomplish this, I  it being cost prohibitive can not be an argument.

So if I equip an elf with qunari armor it will have a qunari body? You are right I don't want that.

btw I am not taking any of your "freedoms" away.

[Leonia]

willholt wrote...

rak72 wrote...

What Merin said.

If people want to keep the companions in their "iconic" clothes, that's fabulous. But why should they be bothered by the way the rest of us want to play our game. They do not need to sit in our living rooms watching us control Morrigan in heavy plate. Just make a toggle to turn off the iconic look, that's all we want.

Exactly!!!

What rak72 said x10000000

These characters in these games? They aren't yours to do with as you please, they have personalities/goals/preferences.. they're like real people except they are really just pixels on your screen. Morrigan doesn't WANT
to wear heavy armour so don't make her wear it. If you want to play a game where you have full control over your party, then Dragon Age just isn't going to be your thing.

I think there are two groups of people around here.. those who understand what Bioware is trying to do with their games and those who don't. It can be confusing, sure, when other companies don't treat their settings and characters with the same sort of care and respect that such artistic vision should require and maybe gamers as a whole have taken customisation for granted so they begin to notice the lack of it almost immediately.

But really, you're still getting your customisation here with Bioware still getting their idea across. Best of both worlds, as I have said before. It's not breaking your game to not see Varric wearing those mage robes is it?

Next you people will complain that JK Rowling gave Harry Potter green eyes because you totally think they should be brown, how dare the creator of the character have any control over the appearance or direction their characters grow in.

Modifié par leonia42, 29 août 2011 - 04:41 .

[Momiji.mii]

I think this sounds excellent and I hope it'll make most players satisfied. I love the idea of being able to ignore follower customization if I don't feel like it (or don't have time), as well as being able to really put my mind to it if I feel like it's worth the effort. Also, happy to hear that the iconic look seems to be here to stay.

[Maconbar]

willholt wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'm baffled by the reaction to this. You get full control of your companions stats again, I thought that would be important, but apparently people are more interested in playing dress up.

Why baffled, it's not rocket science? Again, how many here would have liked the option of changing the appearance of at least one or two of their peers in DA2?

I would be all for this but I don't want to go back to all the companions having the same body.

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Well said!

This is what I completely fail to understand. It's almost like people are saying 'This is how I want to play the game,and I demand that no one else have an option to play it differently'

About the kindest thing I can say about that attitude is, it's pathetically selfish..

Actually my preferred approach would be to have unique body models plus a reasonable choice in armors.

[RagingCyclone]

rak72 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'm baffled by the reaction to this. You get full control of your companions stats again, I thought that would be important, but apparently people are more interested in playing dress up.

Why baffled, it's not rocket science? Again, how many here would have liked the option of changing the appearance of at least one or two of their peers in DA2?

I would be all for this but I don't want to go back to all the companions having the same body.

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Edit - if modders on Nexus were able to accomplish this,   it being cost prohibitive can not be an argument.

Exactly, especially this last part. There are signs that the dev team is indeed heading in a canonical direction. With how many retcons already? Plus more most likely coming along with Morrigan and the OGB, this "iconic" look is another way, for some us, to feel like the devs are saying something that we on the forums hate to hear or tell someone...playing the game wrong.  This is another thing coming from the art team along with the retcons and handwaving from the writers that the freedom of choice is being taken away and soon the devs will point to a certain way to play the game, or you played it wrong. 

[hoorayforicecream]

rak72 wrote...

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Edit - if modders on Nexus were able to accomplish this,   it being cost prohibitive can not be an argument.

The devs value the potential for ambient storytelling through iconic looks more than they do the potential for allowing players to dress their characters up in generic armor.

You may disagree, as is your prerogative, but the fundamental difference seems to come from the developers wishing to have more powerful tools to tell the story they want, and you wishing to tell your own. Asking for what you want isn't impossible, but it is limiting and cost-prohibitive.

Edit: I'll explain the cost prohibitive part. In such a situation, with generic bodies, you're limited. You can't have someone with clearly displayed tattoos, or deformities, or striking physical attributes. So you can either make a very few bunch of armors for each body type, or make a lot of armors that work with generic bodies that either can't be used with certain characters, or override their unique appearances. There isn't time to develop the full suite of armors for every body. That's what's cost-prohibitive.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 29 août 2011 - 04:49 .

[ipgd]

rak72 wrote...

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Because it does affect us. If the developers have to design the game with possibility of characters not actually using their unique armor models, the game cannot be reactive to the unique armor models. They cannot make any significant divergences from the generic body model or make the game reactive to it for the same reason they can never make a satisfactory conclusion to the DR. These things do not exist in a vacuum. A toggle does not magically solve the problem.

Edit - if modders on Nexus were able to accomplish this,   it being cost prohibitive can not be an argument.

Modders on Nexus didn't "accomplish this". Modders on nexus accomplished giving the followers generic body models, as in DAO. Actually giving each companion his or her own body model and individually resizing armor models to fit every one is incredibly time and resource intensive and it's exactly why they used the generic body model system in DAO. And that's the system they would have to go back to if they decided to re-implement fully equippable companion armors again, which I think is highly detrimental to visual characterization.

[mesmerizedish]

leonia42 wrote...

I think there are two groups of people around here.. those who understand what Bioware is trying to do with their games and those who don't.

No. There are those who don't understand it, sure, but understanding it doesn't require that you agree with it, nor does disagreeing with it demonstrate a lack of understanding.

[7times6]

Harid wrote...

I'm kind of scared that cosplay is the reason for some of your changes for "creating an iconic appearance." Who gives a **** about cosplayers. It just blows my mind.  Do you think people cosplaying Lightning makes Square-Enix feel any better about FFXIII being terrible?  Why then would it do the same for you?

How about leaving companions in their default gear that's an "iconic appearance" and allowing us to put them in whatever armor we choose to make them look whatever way we choose going forward. Geez. I could gear Morrigan in full plate if I wanted to. Give us that option for everyone. Leave them in their "iconic appearance" in their home base. Simple stuff, but letting us choose armor and then our companions looking exactly the same is some final fantasy jrpg bull****, and I thought you guys learned that that is not what people want.

I think some of you guys really need to poll people outside of the Bioware community. See what people on other boards like Neogaf, heck, even Gamefaqs think, as you are more likely to find people that disagree with you, and you are less likely to be influenced by some of the crazy people that reside here. Some of the people here would take anything you guys spit out, which is fine for your self esteem, but bad in terms of trying to grab back some of the people that feel burned by your recent decisons.

Cosplay may be a little farfetched, but certainly Bioware is trying to build a world with unique recognizable characters.
Mike, David and the others have stated, as far as I remember several times, that its about the world - and it is really the way to go for them as they have/had no heroes, gods, legends lore as the DnD world had. Introducing some in the far past like Andraste is not enough as they dont interact with us. You really need living folks like Drizzt, Rincewind, Logan Fourfingers ... to make a world alive.
If they allow us to modify all party members to the fullest, then those characters are much more likely to stay containers/henchmen to be filled with our fantasies and mostly forgotten afterwards.

Now personally in such a sort of single player game, I'd usually prefer a fully customizable group with a focus at free skilling. I
imagine e.g. Morrigan as an ice mage / witch from the wilds and a force etc. fixed build would really, well, enstrange me.
BUT if I get introduced to characters with unique outfits, fighting specialities ... who then populate the world both as NPCs and from time to time as playable chracters AND I still can do most of the configuration+skilling, it's a compromise I more than happy to take.
Anyway, how can they establish such key characters and heroes without some common attributes like possible specialities, roughly the appearances, tastes for certain clothes, jewellery ...? I cannot imagine a Varric without his choice of clothing and Bianca (forgetting the dialogues as a vital part for a second).

Playing this on, there could be even two sorts of possible party characters, the more bland fully customizable ones that maybe could also be exported? and the unique ones.
Of course all of this includes quite some wishfull thinking on my part .....   and needs dragon age to roll on for some time. Plus it might also mean not all of them can go on dying on the left and right in the multiple endings, but that could be handled.





*edited some spelling

Modifié par 7times6, 29 août 2011 - 04:50 .

[Leonia]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I think there are two groups of people around here.. those who understand what Bioware is trying to do with their games and those who don't.

No. There are those who don't understand it, sure, but understanding it doesn't require that you agree with it, nor does disagreeing with it demonstrate a lack of understanding.

Fair enough but I think someone else hit the nail on the head by mentioning this isn't the player's story to tell but Bioware's.

[rak72]

Maconbar wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'm baffled by the reaction to this. You get full control of your companions stats again, I thought that would be important, but apparently people are more interested in playing dress up.

Why baffled, it's not rocket science? Again, how many here would have liked the option of changing the appearance of at least one or two of their peers in DA2?

I would be all for this but I don't want to go back to all the companions having the same body.

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Edit - if modders on Nexus were able to accomplish this, I  it being cost prohibitive can not be an argument.

So if I equip an elf with qunari armor it will have a qunari body? You are right I don't want that.

btw I am not taking any of your "freedoms" away.

If I had Sten & the Arishok in my party, and the Arishok was bigger
than Sten, Sten would take on the Arisok's body type if I equiped him in
the Arishoks armor.   You can make that Armor equipably by only
Qunari.  But if it was just generic plate armor, it would take the
generic shape of specific race - like they did in DAO

[Maconbar]

rak72 wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'm baffled by the reaction to this. You get full control of your companions stats again, I thought that would be important, but apparently people are more interested in playing dress up.

Why baffled, it's not rocket science? Again, how many here would have liked the option of changing the appearance of at least one or two of their peers in DA2?

I would be all for this but I don't want to go back to all the companions having the same body.

You can have Issabella's EEE knockers when she is in her icon outft, but if you choose to put on something else, it would go to the body shape of whatever you put on.  I don't think most people who want the ability to change armors would have an objection to this.  You can also let the PC equip Isabell's Icon armor so that she can get EEE knockers.   If you don't approve of this, just keep the characters in their own outfits.  Whats the big deal???  Why take away feedoms from other player if it doesn't affect you??

Edit - if modders on Nexus were able to accomplish this,   it being cost prohibitive can not be an argument.

Actually, what is driving my position is that I didn't like that Wynne, Morrigan, and Leliana had the same body. That part of DA:O seemed really odd to me.

[Sowtaaw]

oh the "icon" outfit bull****. Congratulations bioware this is what you get when try to fix what was not Broken in the first place.