1027 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

Mr.House wrote...
Grow up. Stats matter, not looks.

I know you were replying to Harid but it was so outlandish it's worth a bump. IF you are arguing for Bioware please don't. In case you missed it in the OP:
"Ultimately, we believe that the strong visual identity given to characters by iconic appearances is an important part of their identity"

Also about stats matter not looks, I disagree. in DAO I wore the ancient elven armor many times for looks, the stats were lousy. In DA2 I won't wear the champion armors except for female mage. The rest has something very wrong with them so much so I won't wear them at all. (For example plate on male/female warriors and male mage hides the bottom of Hawke's face in many cutscenes, and that arm on male mage...oh my). I don't have to be the best dressed nor do my companions but I want to look decent.
Now about the OP...

If I want to put Izzy in a crossurheart and pants I should be able to do so in my game. If she is tasked for melee combat I might also put something a bit more sensible on her for that task. I like her and want her to survive or at least have a better chance at it. (This is an RPG...yes?) It has no effect on other people’s game if they want to keep the default iconic look. (Let me guess, we won’t be able to spec weapon style how we like again?)

I am getting the vibe DA3 will be DA2 tweaked slightly, no/very little waves or too much re-used areas due to huge complaints. The no/little re-used area will really cut in the game’s budget I hope you are all happy with what you get.

There appears to be a limited budget with EA and it’s “Oh so important RPG section” it wanted to shore up so badly when they bought Bioware. Which I find odd but whatever. (Give them a ToR-like budget and watch the madness it would be awesome. I dare ya EA)

Here…have a bone. It’s a really pretty bone; you won’t notice the meat is missing, honest!
Sigh

[ipgd]

Harid wrote...

When someone states "Where did you get that from", they generally mean "quote the dev you got that from."  Not "This is how it works in my head."  Understand?

... I know how this works because I am involved in art and I know how 3D game models work? Bioware doesn't have some method wildly divergent from the industry standard.

I know they have to fit the model to each race.  However i don't know the effort it entails to do so,  FFXI had a multitude of armor types for each race in the game, and given the small amount of unique companions we get it doesn't seem any harder than what we got in Origins that I am not going to allow Bioware to file it under "cost intensive."

And I'd rather have a FFXI style armor set up than this iconic look bull**** we are getting today, sorry.

How FFXI and other MMOs do it is exactly how Bioware has to do it. The difference is that MMOs have a lot more time and resources than a single player game does.

I know there's an article somewhere that talks about how much work goes into adding a single armor model into WoW (twelve races each with two sexes at this point, so 24 passes), if you care to find it. It's a ridiculous undertaking. Blizzard and Square Enix can do it because they are massive studios rolling in cash working on an entirely different kind of project, whereas Bioware is... not so much.

It's completely technologically possible, but so much work that they would certainly have to divert a massive amount of resources away from areas that I'm sure are much more important to the both of us.

As I, and the above poster stated, if you make a character well enough, what they look like doesn't matter.

It matters to me. The things you are saying are not facts.

[Leonia]

How is it possible to make a character "well enough" that everyone will be satisfied with their appearance?

[Harid]

ipgd wrote...

Harid wrote...

When someone states "Where did you get that from", they generally mean "quote the dev you got that from."  Not "This is how it works in my head."  Understand?

... I know how this works because I am involved in art and I know how 3D game models work? Bioware doesn't have some method wildly divergent from the industry standard.

I know they have to fit the model to each race.  However i don't know the effort it entails to do so,  FFXI had a multitude of armor types for each race in the game, and given the small amount of unique companions we get it doesn't seem any harder than what we got in Origins that I am not going to allow Bioware to file it under "cost intensive."

And I'd rather have a FFXI style armor set up than this iconic look bull**** we are getting today, sorry.

How FFXI and other MMOs do it is exactly how Bioware has to do it. The difference is that MMOs have a lot more time and resources than a single player game does.

I know there's an article somewhere that talks about how much work goes into adding a single armor model into WoW (twelve races each with two sexes at this point, so 24 passes), if you care to find it. It's a ridiculous undertaking. Blizzard and Square Enix can do it because they are massive studios rolling in cash working on an entirely different kind of project, whereas Bioware is... not so much.

It's completely technologically possible, but so much work that they would certainly have to divert a massive amount of resources away from areas that I'm sure are much more important to the both of us.

As I, and the above poster stated, if you make a character well enough, what they look like doesn't matter.

It matters to me. The things you are saying are not facts.

Square Enix is not rolling in cash right now (man I am choking back laughter), yet they can still put forth the effort of not only the 7 racial variants you have, but the three different sizes for each of those variants. . .and yet Bioware cannot do the same. . .It comes across as lazy to me.  So I am sorry, your word literally means nothing to me on this issue, as far as I am concerned, as well as your credentials, this is the internet, I can be a handicapped black lesbian on a message board to strengthen my point, it still makes using such credentials clear appeals to authority and you should know better.

As for your final point, that's probably scarier than anything I have asked for.

Anyway, I have some things to do, so I'll be looking forward to what you have to say when I get back.

[esper]

Harid wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Harid wrote...

When someone states "Where did you get that from", they generally mean "quote the dev you got that from."  Not "This is how it works in my head."  Understand?

... I know how this works because I am involved in art and I know how 3D game models work? Bioware doesn't have some method wildly divergent from the industry standard.

I know they have to fit the model to each race.  However i don't know the effort it entails to do so,  FFXI had a multitude of armor types for each race in the game, and given the small amount of unique companions we get it doesn't seem any harder than what we got in Origins that I am not going to allow Bioware to file it under "cost intensive."

And I'd rather have a FFXI style armor set up than this iconic look bull**** we are getting today, sorry.

How FFXI and other MMOs do it is exactly how Bioware has to do it. The difference is that MMOs have a lot more time and resources than a single player game does.

I know there's an article somewhere that talks about how much work goes into adding a single armor model into WoW (twelve races each with two sexes at this point, so 24 passes), if you care to find it. It's a ridiculous undertaking. Blizzard and Square Enix can do it because they are massive studios rolling in cash working on an entirely different kind of project, whereas Bioware is... not so much.

It's completely technologically possible, but so much work that they would certainly have to divert a massive amount of resources away from areas that I'm sure are much more important to the both of us.

As I, and the above poster stated, if you make a character well enough, what they look like doesn't matter.

It matters to me. The things you are saying are not facts.

Square Enix is not rolling in cash right now (man I am choking back laughter), yet they can still put forth the effort of not only the 7 racial variants you have, but the three different sizes for each of those variants. . .and yet Bioware cannot do the same. . .It comes across as lazy to me.  So I am sorry, your word literally means nothing to me on this issue, as far as I am concerned, as well as your credentials, this is the internet, I can be a handicapped black lesbian on a message board to strengthen my point, it still makes using such credentials clear appeals to authority and you should know better.

As for your final point, that's probably scarier than anything I have asked for.

Anyway, I have some things to do, so I'll be looking forward to what you have to say when I get back.

It is a matter of resuorces. Bioware simply choose to priotize differenlt, but I can't comment on square enix. I quit  FF after 12 and has so far only played Kingdom Hearts which doesn't allow you to change your follower's armour - If you have followers at all.

[Sepewrath]

I'm all for any plan that allows the party to retain their own individual looks, over some drab, one size fits all deal, like in Origins and ME1.

[shedevil3001]

i'm all for this idea, hopefully we will see how well it works soon enough :}

[Sylvianus]

Well I'm satisfied with this all that, if some errors aren't committed.

Several things :

1- .  that's very important to have a true variety of outfits ( at least 3-4 ). If you give us the same things as in DA2, by simply changing the color like that was the case with Anders, or by bringing a small thing, like Isabella we won't be satisfied. That's not what we call change.  If I don't like Isabella without pants, I don't want to have others same outfits, with simply another color and still without pants.

2 - Now It is important that everyone can at least have a decent dress for the battle. if the rest is only outfits, I don't care, but at least one armor, iconic or not. We screamed with Mass Effect 2 about that, we screamed with DA2, we'll still scream in DA3, if there is no armor for warriors and rogues when we fight.

Indeed, When I fight the Archdemon, I want my team to be armed and equipped like real fighters, ready to go to the hell. I do not want someone without pants when we're surrounded by Darkspawn. When I'm in town, and I'm going to do shopping why not, but when I face a dragon, I want the right equipment for my companions.

I don't want to scream anymore during the battle, while the blood spurts after cutting off the head of a Darkspawn. :" Oh my god, Isabella, where are your pants again, for the love of the sweet creator, grow up ! "

3 -  Visual difference between the outfits themself,  different structures of armor. If I'm a warrior, I want : Basic, Light, heavy, massive armore. Depending as well some factors.  The first armor of Aveline was horrible for a warrior. She looked too thin in it. The armors of Kirkwall's guards are horribles, let them alone.

The player should be given control over the follower's appearance once more than one appearance becomes available. Did you prefer Merril in green over white? Fair enough. We want to treat additional appearances more as unlocks, than as mandatory changes, so that you, as the player, maintain control over how your team looks, within each character's iconic style.

Oh Mike, I will cry. I want to remove the white armor from Merril, I want the green outfit. Do it might be already possible for DA2 with the arrival of a new DLC or an expansion ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 août 2011 - 07:35 .

[Willybot]

Read the first 6 pages of the thread then jumped to page 15 to see more recent comments. The jump in tone was downright scary.

That aside, the proposed system seems a decent compromise. As long as the extra appearances are plentiful and unique, I can handle the logic jump of a companion appearing to wear a loincloth when equipping plate. There are plenty of such logic disconnects that one more shouldn't hurt.

All I can ask the devs is to spend whatever time needed to make plenty of unique appearances at time of launch. It was mentioned earlier that it would be an unwise move to release an appearance pack post-launch and I agree. If the message is "Ultimately, we believe that the strong visual identity given to characters by iconic appearances is an important part of their identity..." don't add "...unless you pay us $4.99" two weeks after launch.

All in all, a good sign to me.

[esper]

To be fair they hadn't given us extra companion armour dlc

[cursedsei]

First off, I'd like to say this is an awesome thing. Mass Effect 2 allowed us to switch between looks/styles for our companions, so I wonderd why it wasn't allowed in Dragon Age 2. I understood it was supposed to show a gradual change throughout the course of the game, but no reason to lock us down.

The only thing I'd like to hear at this point when it comes to companions, would be unlocking characters from their archetypal clases. Let them keep their specialty class of course, have it replace the class-specialization it serves as, but allow us to deviate them from that so they can fill other roles if we want them too. Maybe I miss having Anders flinging fire and chaos from his hands instead of healing, or I feel Aveline and her Campbell-esque chin would serve better dishing out the pain instead of taking it, you know?

[Serpieri Nei]

Dragon Age III has to meet the following criteria’s for me to even consider purchasing it

Race Selection
Full Customization of Companions – Armors/Party Role/Skills/Abilities
Real Choices and Consequences
Exploration

Unless, your system is going to have at least 8 armors per companion to offer a wide range of variety. I am not at all intrigued.

[billy the squid]

@ Esper
Because one couldn't equip companions with armour, so they gave you Hawke armour DLC instead.

Modifié par billy the squid, 29 août 2011 - 08:30 .

[Willybot]

esper wrote...

To be fair they hadn't given us extra companion armour dlc

They indeed haven't and I give them kudos for consistancy of message at the very least. But they've also released two completely-optional-quick-buck item packs thus far. That they may do the same with a completely-optional-quick-buck appearance pack isn't that far of a stretch to imagine.

I really don't mean to imply anything negative or insinuate that this may actually happen. But they say that the companion's appearance was done in the current way for artistic purposes, I would just hate for said purpose to be voided for a quick cash-in.

[esper]

I don't think they are going to do that. So far they have held their ground firmly.

[willholt]

billy the squid wrote...

@ Esper
Because one couldn't equip companions with armour, so they gave you Hawke armour DLC instead.

Like I mentioned earlier... this decision opens the floogates for future DLCs to include companion armour. You can almost hear the sound of cash registers ringing like mad, as I'm pretty sure most who are happy with this decision will be ever so eager to chuck their money at those companion armour DLCs.

Ah well ... <_<

Modifié par willholt, 29 août 2011 - 08:42 .

[billy the squid]

Willybot wrote...

esper wrote...

To be fair they hadn't given us extra companion armour dlc

They indeed haven't and I give them kudos for consistancy of message at the very least. But they've also released two completely-optional-quick-buck item packs thus far. That they may do the same with a completely-optional-quick-buck appearance pack isn't that far of a stretch to imagine.

I really don't mean to imply anything negative or insinuate that this may actually happen. But they say that the companion's appearance was done in the current way for artistic purposes, I would just hate for said purpose to be voided for a quick cash-in.

pfft. That is not an implication of negativity or cynicism, its logical given the approach in DA2 and ME2.

[Nighteye2]

Sounds like a huge improvement over DAII

[Bryy_Miller]

This is.... a decent compromise, I guess. 

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 29 août 2011 - 10:12 .

[foo man chew]

This is a great idea if implemented correctly.There should be atleast 5 outfits for every companion and they must be unique not the same outfits recolored or with minor tweaks.And as for hawkes armor there shouldnt be one ultimate armor set like the champion armor it should be more like origins where if you where at the end of the game you could use multiple set like the juggernaught,dragon,king cailens,effort,ect it makes it boring when theres one set that stand out above the rest.And would it be possible to get a companion armor dlc for da2 it would really help with relpayability.

[foo man chew]

And as for dlc packs for companion appearance i really dont see what the big deal is if they implement plenty of options in the original game.Remember dlc is optional you dont have to buy it if you feel like your being nickel and dimed.

[Elhanan]

Sounds great to me! Looking forward to moving forward!

[Morroian]

willholt wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

@ Esper
Because one couldn't equip companions with armour, so they gave you Hawke armour DLC instead.

Like I mentioned earlier... this decision opens the floogates for future DLCs to include companion armour. You can almost hear the sound of cash registers ringing like mad, as I'm pretty sure most who are happy with this decision will be ever so eager to chuck their money at those companion armour DLCs.

As long as there is some choice in the main game that shouldn't be a problem just don't buy it.

[Shazzie]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
<massive snip of glorious ideas>
Additionally, we are experimenting with armor equipped to the followers having some additional visual impact on the follower's iconic appearance, but we'll dig deeper on that as we get closer to a final implementation. As a general rule, you should expect that any deviation from the ideas outlined above would be towards more visual customization, rather than less.

My feelings for DA2 ranged from displeasure to disappointment to outright dislike, but ... I did like the companion's having unique looks, even if I didn't always like what those looks were. (Elven stirrup pants, I hate you, you give me bad 80s flashbacks). I did not like not being able to give them any real, actual gear. Having so much of it drop that was completely useless was aggravating, so all the changes you outlined sound absolutely fantastic.

But this part, this little part that I quoted? If that was possible, even in only a minor way, some little visual representation of WeThePlayer in this fashion...
...well. I think I would love you. In my oldschool BioWare fangirl way, and only when appropriate.

Just please don't tie this unrevokably into DLC. I don't purchase armor/item DLC, I have no interest in that, I prefer the game itself to supply me.

Modifié par Shazzie, 29 août 2011 - 10:38 .