1253 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

IanPolaris wrote...

That's a damn copout and I think you know it.  I am supposed to ignore the very evidence I gather in character? 

I'd say it's rather obvious that needs to be done sometimes -- otherwise have fun explaining the "one size fits all" technology apparently built into every piece of garment and/or armour, which just happens to casually break the laws of universe as we know it.

[Besides if you look at most periods of even Western history, you find that in most eras change is almost imperceptibly slow.  It's only the past five hundred years and especially the last one hundred or so that have been exceptional.]

That's quite true; the catch would be that (in)directly argues against the presented theory how the development in Thedas is being relatively stunted -- because if things progressing at glacial pace is supposed to be typical for that era then, well.

[GavrielKay]

IanPolaris wrote...
Killing someone without cause is immoral.  I HOPE everyone agrees that this is a moral fact.  A moral fact is no different than any other kind of fact.

The wiggle room here that the devs could have used had they constructed a better story is to give us some cause. 

As presented, there are mages in the circle who don't want their quarters searched.  That's it.  That's the whole list of known crimes for the circle mages.  Orsino refuses to let Meredith search the entire Gallows so she figures they must be guilty.

Then Anders, the apostate, blows up the Chantry.  Meredith doesn't care about him, except that he's freed her from the last restriction to calling an RoA - Elthina.

There were ways to set up Act 3 that would have made it tough for me to decide if an RoA was appropriate, but mages trying to hold on to their right to privacy hardly seems a crime worthy of death.

Absent any reason to believe the circle mages are about to escape en masse and decimate the town, there is zero reason to devote Templar energy to an RoA over sending them into the city proper to quell the rioting.  That Meredith is too insane to do the obvious thing makes it really hard to take anything she says seriously.

Modifié par GavrielKay, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:25 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

phaonica wrote...

So your argument is not that if the writing were good, it could change your stance, but rather that if the writing were good, it wouldn't have set up the conflict to challenge a "moral fact" in the first place?

Well, I disagree. Take umbrage all you want, but I don't believe in moral facts, nor do I believe it is inherently bad writing to attempt to challenge a "moral fact". And because I am unwilling to argue this belief with you, we may be at an impasse.

Killing someone without cause is immoral.  I HOPE everyone agrees that this is a moral fact.  A moral fact is no different than any other kind of fact.  It is a moral question which most (almost all) reasonable people agree on.  Likewise as a basic principle is it wrong to take what isn't yours.  This is another moral fact.  Moral facts are just like phyisical ones in this regard.

Punishing someone for something they did not do is wrong.  That is a moral fact.  Even three year old CHILDREN understand that.

Bioware should too.  If you have a story that attempts deny a basic moral fact that even three year old children recongize (and attempt to call it grey), then it is BAD WRITING pretty much period.

If you don't understand that somethings are morally wrong as facts as I've defined the terms above, then IMHO you are beyond any reasonable help or discussion.

-Polaris

Edit:  My point is that moral facts exist whether you (or anyone else) 'believe' in them or not just as physical facts do.  If they did not, society could not function.

If you are of the "might makes right" school of thought, then you have a right to take what isn't yours, as long as you got the power to take it. So no, it isn't a "moral fact" that it is wrong to take what isn't yours.

Oh, and the mages weren't punished for what Anders did. What Anders did allowed the mages to be punished though.

[EmperorSahlertz]

GavrielKay wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Killing someone without cause is immoral.  I HOPE everyone agrees that this is a moral fact.  A moral fact is no different than any other kind of fact.

As presented, there are mages in the circle who don't want their quarters searched.  That's it.  That's the whole list of known crimes for the circle mages.  Orsino refuses to let Meredith search the entire Gallows so she figures they must be guilty.

Oh nevermind that they are planning to rebel against their Knight-Commander and is fleeing the Circle left and right. Those aren't crimes.... Just for planning against their superior could be enough to warrant a purge...

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Killing someone without cause is immoral.  I HOPE everyone agrees that this is a moral fact.  A moral fact is no different than any other kind of fact.

As presented, there are mages in the circle who don't want their quarters searched.  That's it.  That's the whole list of known crimes for the circle mages.  Orsino refuses to let Meredith search the entire Gallows so she figures they must be guilty.

Oh nevermind that they are planning to rebel against their Knight-Commander and is fleeing the Circle left and right. Those aren't crimes.... Just for planning against their superior could be enough to warrant a purge...

Cause and effect and the cause is the corrupt and incompetent templar order. I would say that the first order of business is to purge the templar order of these idiots before you move to the mages. otherwise you will cause a war that will blow up the world.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It obviously isn't the cause since mages of Kirkwall has ALWAYS been rebellious. The mages themselves have forced the Templars to crack down on them so hard.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It obviously isn't the cause since mages of Kirkwall has ALWAYS been rebellious. The mages themselves have forced the Templars to crack down on them so hard.

Kirkwall has always been rebellious? You're right, it's Kirkwall's slaves' fault for rebelling against their masters. How dare those slaves be rebellious!

In regards to the mages, we don't know what the Circle was like prior to DAII. They could've had more abominations than usual but perhaps the Templars and mages actually worked together like they were supposed to. It's only with Meredith the Tyrant that things got out of control.

The thin Veil is something that the Chantry and Templars should've addressed instead of hiding away records and saying they don't exist. They should've had the mages try to strengthen the Veil.

The Chantry established the Kirkwall Circle over a hellmouth and then hid the records from the public. They are the cause of the problems with the mages, because they ignored the problem that Kirkwall has. A thin Veil means more demons, and more demons means more blood magic and more abominations.

If they can't put 2 and 2 together, they're dumber than I thought.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why are you talking about slaves?...

We know that the Circle of Kirkwall has always had a higher percentage of blood mages than any other Circle (and failed harrowings for that matter). Blood magic is illegal, mages studying it, can be defined as rebellious, since they know it is illegal.

A thin veil and a Circle is nothing new, the veil is always thinned with the presence of strong, or frequent magic. The Circle had no reason to believe that Kirkwall was any more exposed, than any other Circle.

And the Chantry hid what records? The Chantry doesn't know what has happened in Kirkwall's past. There is simply no proof of what you are saying. The Chantry (and Kirkwall's own library) got a few tomes and entries about Kirkwall's past, but nothing major.
That Kirkwall got a thin veil is "common" (common within the field of such knowledge) knowledge. That Kirkwall was designed from the bottom up (literally) to be a bunch of magical symbols, and to do secret magical research is NOT common knowledge.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why are you talking about slaves?...

We know that the Circle of Kirkwall has always had a higher percentage of blood mages than any other Circle (and failed harrowings for that matter). Blood magic is illegal, mages studying it, can be defined as rebellious, since they know it is illegal.

A thin veil and a Circle is nothing new, the veil is always thinned with the presence of strong, or frequent magic. The Circle had no reason to believe that Kirkwall was any more exposed, than any other Circle.

And the Chantry hid what records? The Chantry doesn't know what has happened in Kirkwall's past. There is simply no proof of what you are saying. The Chantry (and Kirkwall's own library) got a few tomes and entries about Kirkwall's past, but nothing major.
That Kirkwall got a thin veil is "common" (common within the field of such knowledge) knowledge. That Kirkwall was designed from the bottom up (literally) to be a bunch of magical symbols, and to do secret magical research is NOT common knowledge.

You said Kirkwall has always been rebellious. While obvious you meant the Circle, it comes off as saying that Kirkwall has been rebellious since the start (which it has, but that's beside the point).

The Veil is thinned only by blood magic and death. That's one of the reasons the Chantry doesn't like blood magic. Because the Tevinter Imperium used it to thin the Veil and summon demons (or in Kirkwall's case, for some unknown purpose). Regular magic does not thin the Veil. You have no proof to back that up.

These records right here:

Access has not been easy, and I fear my disguise will not bear great scrutiny. But I saw the records the templars say do not exist. The blood of countless slaves was spilled beneath the city in sacrifice. Whole buildings were built upon lakes of blood. The sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down. The scale is hard to fathom.

A blood mage can channel great power from a simple cut. At least a thousand unfortunates died here every year for centuries. For what ungodly purpose would one need so much power?

I must retreat now before I am uncovered. But the answer is close.

It's obvious that the Chantry hid these records (given that the author of this entry hid his information behind a panel in the Gallows) and that they knew Tevinter was deliberately thinning the Veil for centuries beyond centuries.

You only wear disguises when you don't want to get caught, and the Templars say the records of Kirkwall's blood magic don't exist.

The Templars have enough evidence to know that the thin Veil is a problem that should be rectified, yet they do nothing about it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 septembre 2011 - 12:29 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why are you talking about slaves?...

We know that the Circle of Kirkwall has always had a higher percentage of blood mages than any other Circle (and failed harrowings for that matter). Blood magic is illegal, mages studying it, can be defined as rebellious, since they know it is illegal.

A thin veil and a Circle is nothing new, the veil is always thinned with the presence of strong, or frequent magic. The Circle had no reason to believe that Kirkwall was any more exposed, than any other Circle.

And the Chantry hid what records? The Chantry doesn't know what has happened in Kirkwall's past. There is simply no proof of what you are saying. The Chantry (and Kirkwall's own library) got a few tomes and entries about Kirkwall's past, but nothing major.
That Kirkwall got a thin veil is "common" (common within the field of such knowledge) knowledge. That Kirkwall was designed from the bottom up (literally) to be a bunch of magical symbols, and to do secret magical research is NOT common knowledge.

You said Kirkwall has always been rebellious. While obvious you meant the Circle, it comes off as saying that Kirkwall has been rebellious since the start (which it has, but that's beside the point).

The Veil is thinned only by blood magic and death. That's one of the reasons the Chantry doesn't like blood magic. Because the Tevinter Imperium used it to thin the Veil and summon demons (or in Kirkwall's case, for some unknown purpose). Regular magic does not thin the Veil. You have no proof to back that up.

I said the mages of Kirkwall had always been rebellious...
The veil is thinned by magic, death and suffering. And it is not only blood magic which thins the veil. Magic of any kind does that.
The Chantry does not like blood magic because it is connected to demons and mind control.

http://dragonage.wik...ars_in_the_Veil
It pretty much states that tehre is absolutely no definite answer to what causes a tear in the veil. Simply that lyrium and/or blood is probably involved. Also, since you claim that only blood magic can create a tear in the veil, are we then to believe that teh basement of the Circle Tower in Ferelden was sabotaged by rogue blood mages?

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
These records right here:

Access has not been easy, and I fear my disguise will not bear great scrutiny. But I saw the records the templars say do not exist. The blood of countless slaves was spilled beneath the city in sacrifice. Whole buildings were built upon lakes of blood. The sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down. The scale is hard to fathom.

A blood mage can channel great power from a simple cut. At least a thousand unfortunates died here every year for centuries. For what ungodly purpose would one need so much power?

I must retreat now before I am uncovered. But the answer is close.

It's obvious that the Chantry hid these records (given that the author of this entry hid his information behind a panel in the Gallows) and that they knew Tevinter was deliberately thinning the Veil for centuries beyond centuries.

You only wear disguises when you don't want to get caught, and the Templars say the records of Kirkwall's blood magic don't exist.

The Templars have enough evidence to know that the thin Veil is a problem that should be rectified, yet they do nothing about it.

First of all, he was disguised becasue he was suppsoed to look like a Circle Mage or Templar, so that he could even enter the Gallows. Second of all, the Templars have every reason to hide the fact that Kirkwall is itself a catalyst for magic. The fact that the records still exist proove that the Chantry does not wish the knowledge destroyed, only taht it is kept from mages. With good reason.
Again. The Chantry had no knowledge of waht Kirkwall truly is, and does not know what happened in the deepest levels of Kirkwall. A thin veil at a Circle of Magi is nothing new.

[TEWR]

I said the mages of Kirkwall had always been rebellious...

....crap. I fail.

That's what I get for only having a few hours of sleep.

The veil is thinned by magic, death and suffering. And it is not only blood magic which thins the veil. Magic of any kind does that.
The Chantry does not like blood magic because it is connected to demons and mind control.

http://dragonage.wik...ars_in_the_Veil
It pretty much states that tehre is absolutely no definite answer to what causes a tear in the veil. Simply that lyrium and/or blood is probably involved. Also, since you claim that only blood magic can create a tear in the veil, are we then to believe that teh basement of the Circle Tower in Ferelden was sabotaged by rogue blood mages?

Yet you keep saying that magic always thins the Veil, when you just now said there is no answer.

Why do you think that blood magic thins the Veil? Because it's blood magic. It has the capability to tear the veil. Blood magic and death thin the Veil. Well, and red lyrium, but we don't know how much of it there is (since we see a Fade Golem and various shades caused by the idol). But blue lyrium doesn't. If it did, Orzammar would've fallen by now.

Regular magic doesn't thin the Veil.

http://dragonage.wik...orbidden_School

As for the basement, did you ever think that maybe Uldred's attempt at overthrowing the Circle where he and his cabal of cohorts used blood magic was what thinned the Veil? Who says the Veil couldn't have been thinned all over the tower?

Also, mages had been in the Tower long before it became a Circle, as the Shah Wyrd quest and dialogue by companions tells us.

First of all, he was disguised becasue he was suppsoed to look like a Circle Mage or Templar, so that he could even enter the Gallows. Second of all, the Templars have every reason to hide the fact that Kirkwall is itself a catalyst for magic. The fact that the records still exist proove that the Chantry does not wish the knowledge destroyed, only taht it is kept from mages. With good reason.
Again. The Chantry had no knowledge of waht Kirkwall truly is, and does not know what happened in the deepest levels of Kirkwall. A thin veil at a Circle of Magi is nothing new.

And he wouldn't have had to have been disguised if the Chantry and Templars had made it clear that these records do exist. They're supposed to protect the populus, so they should've taken steps to improve the Veil.

That the records still exist means nothing. Mages are the only people who can strengthen the Veil (Avernus did it as well as other mages in other areas). Why on earth would they keep this information from the mages? Or even the First Enchanter, who is supposed to be privy to information like this?

By keeping the Veil thin, they are endangering themselves, their charges, and the citizens. Not exactly something I'd call a good deed by the Chantry.

It's obvious what Kirkwall is. Demons teach blood magic. A thin Veil lets loose more demons. Demons lead to blood magic, which leads to Abominations, which leads to death, which leads to a thinner Veil, which repeats the process.

You want to profess that the Chantry didn't know, be my guest. Because I'll certainly concede that they're a bunch of idiots.

We've only seen two Circles of Magi, and both have had their problems with blood magic which thinned the Veil. Now you're acting like a thin Veil is a common trait of all the Circles.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 septembre 2011 - 12:59 .

[Wulfram]

The Dwarves at least do appear to have advanced - the Shield of Aeducan is mentioned to not be particularly impressive by today's standards. And you've got Branka's smokeless fuel, and Dworkin's explosives.

Circle Mages seem to do a fair amount of research into magic - for example Owain mentions research as a common use of a Rod of Fire, as well as various Mage penned codex entries.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The veil cannot be mended once torn. Even Avernus says that. Nor can you even be sure that the magic Avernus used could be used in a case as severe as Kirkwall. Nor does the entry you linked state that Blood Magic is the ONLY way to thin the veil, only that i can be used for that purpose.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

tmp7704 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

This level of technological progress has been pretty much unchanged for over a millenia. 1000 years and they are still about at the same level of technological development they have been 1000 years ago.

On what presumptions do you base your facts?

(we don't get to see what level of technological progress Thedas actually had 1000 years ago, do we?)

Don't even need to look at gameplay. the lore has Thedas pretty much stuck at the same level of technology. The Historical codexes show very little improvement or devlopment from age to age.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Wulfram wrote...

The Dwarves at least do appear to have advanced - the Shield of Aeducan is mentioned to not be particularly impressive by today's standards. And you've got Branka's smokeless fuel, and Dworkin's explosives.

Circle Mages seem to do a fair amount of research into magic - for example Owain mentions research as a common use of a Rod of Fire, as well as various Mage penned codex entries.

Yep, there's a couple of incidents where it is stated that dwarves have advanced. Hell, Oghren talks about an old anvil in Awakening in a similar fashion. So there is evidence that the dwarves have been improving on a number of fronts over the span of years.

[Drimberly]

idk if i have already posted in herebut i do not think i have.
NO MOAR INSANE MAGES!
that is my opinion. i justify this by every nearly mage i encounter being more than a little deranged.
Orsino. Not desparate. He willingly reaserched blood magic with quentin, another deranged mage, in the city with the highst teplar poplation since the divine prounanced the capital of orlais, lyrim free. then he turns into a big flesh harvester.
Decimus. Insane
Grace. weridly insane and mad at me for saving her life.
Alain. Has authority issues.
yeah.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Don't even need to look at gameplay. the lore has Thedas pretty much stuck at the same level of technology. The Historical codexes show very little improvement or devlopment from age to age.

I personally would go as far as to say that Thedas not only did not advance drastically, but in many ways regressed when compared to the Tevinter Imperium, based on what we know so far.

The magical towers in Awakening (imagine the military benefits), seem to be unparalled by contemporary Thedas (due to a fear of magic). Tevinter was able to build a bridge over the Waking sea, something I doubt any Thedasian nation can duplicate. The imperial highway remains an architectural wonder. Fort Drakon was built by the Imperium and it is also an impressive monument.

I would agree with tmp that the juggernaut armor would not have been a good example, had it not been for the codex entry that I think should be taken into consideration. The armor was modified with blood magic and lyrium.

That said, we don't know much about Orlais or Nevarra. Personally, I do not think either of them advanced that much if at all ( I am mostly basing this on the historical parallel of Byzantium. Constantinople remained one of largest, most sophisticated cities in the world, next to Cardoba, Cairo and Baghdad, in the middle ages despite the political regression of the empire), but we do not have the info to confirm as far as I am aware. Orlais does have an important university, and if Amaranthine is any indication, seem to be adept at building cities. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 septembre 2011 - 02:22 .

[GavrielKay]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Killing someone without cause is immoral.  I HOPE everyone agrees that this is a moral fact.  A moral fact is no different than any other kind of fact.

As presented, there are mages in the circle who don't want their quarters searched.  That's it.  That's the whole list of known crimes for the circle mages.  Orsino refuses to let Meredith search the entire Gallows so she figures they must be guilty.

Oh nevermind that they are planning to rebel against their Knight-Commander and is fleeing the Circle left and right. Those aren't crimes.... Just for planning against their superior could be enough to warrant a purge...

Uh, no.  The RoA is supposed to be for circles that are irredeemable, not unruly.  Meredith losing control of her Templars and the circle are marks against her, not the mages.

[KnightofPhoenix]

GavrielKay wrote...
Uh, no.  The RoA is supposed to be for circles that are irredeemable, not unruly.  Meredith losing control of her Templars and the circle are marks against her, not the mages.

Indeed. The only one who should have been annuled was Meredith, but the Chantry seems utterly oblivious to her incompetence.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If you are of the "might makes right" school of thought, then you have a right to take what isn't yours, as long as you got the power to take it. So no, it isn't a "moral fact" that it is wrong to take what isn't yours.

Oh, and the mages weren't punished for what Anders did. What Anders did allowed the mages to be punished though.

No.  "MIght makes right" is immoral.  That is a moral fact.  Pretty much everyone recognizes that "Might makes right" is the very antithesis of what almost everyone regards as a society that is moral.   Don't believe me?  Google "Human RIghts" sometime and you'll get an eyeful of "might makes right"...unless you really, really want us to believe that people regarded Pol Pot as a man of moral virtue...and I really don't think you do.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The veil cannot be mended once torn. Even Avernus says that. Nor can you even be sure that the magic Avernus used could be used in a case as severe as Kirkwall. Nor does the entry you linked state that Blood Magic is the ONLY way to thin the veil, only that i can be used for that purpose.

 I must have imagined that ritual as soldier's keep then.  It's canonical that a torn veil CAN be repaired albeit with extreem difficulty.  See also the Blackmarsh.  You also repair the torn veil there (pretty much explicitly).

Is the veil as strong as it was?  No.  Is it repaired?  Yes.

-Polaris

Edit:  Even if the veil IS past repairing in Kirkwall, you can do the sensible thing and NOT put the mage's circle in the magical equivalent of a toxic waste dump.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 01 septembre 2011 - 02:31 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I personally would go as far as to say that Thedas not only did not advance drastically, but in many ways regressed when compared to the Tevinter Imperium, based on what we know so far.

The magical towers in Awakening (imagine the military benefits), seem to be unparalled by contemporary Thedas (due to a fear of magic). Tevinter was able to build a bridge over the Waking sea, something I doubt any Thedasian nation can duplicate. The imperial highway remains an architectural wonder. Fort Drakon was built by the Imperium and it is also an impressive monument.

I would agree with tmp that the juggernaut armor would not have been a good example, had it not been for the codex entry that I think should be taken into consideration. The armor was modified with blood magic and lyrium.

That said, we don't know much about Orlais or Nevarra. Personally, I do not think either of them advanced that much if at all, but we do not have the info to confirm as far as I am aware. Orlais does have an important university, and if Amaranthine is any indication, seem to be adept at building cities. 

It's actually a good analogue of dark ages Europe after the fall of rome. The architectual and engineering prowess of the Romans would not be repeated until the rennisance in Europe. Though the dwarves are said to have built a number of Tevinter structers, there were many that were built by the Tevinters. The network of roads that still stands, for example, and Thedas still uses. 

With the Tevinters, you have a society that was ruled by magic and magicians, yet it managed to progress on many technological and scholarly fronts. This kind of kills the idea that magic kills development due to dependance. For starters, magic can be considered a "technology" because it is an established natural phenomenon of Thedas, so it's avdancement and study, and practical application, would be an example of technological progress. Tevinter seems to have managed advancement on both fronts, though it was focused on magic. Current Thedas, however, allows a very minute application of magic. Hell, look at Origins in the mage origin, where the Chantry only allowed 7 mages to go when the king himself, the freaking monarch, asked for mages to fight the Blight. The Chantry keeps magical application to a minimum, and only when it has to. 

Nevarra and Orlais seem to be at a general level of technological advancement at everyone else, though in the case of Orlais, wealth and trade probably allows them a higher standard of living. Nevarra is a mystery, but the codexes do mention them building elaborate tomb palaces for their prominent and wealthy dead, so perhaps they do have some architectual and engineering capabilities.

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If you are of the "might makes right" school of thought, then you have a right to take what isn't yours, as long as you got the power to take it. So no, it isn't a "moral fact" that it is wrong to take what isn't yours.

Oh, and the mages weren't punished for what Anders did. What Anders did allowed the mages to be punished though.

No.  "MIght makes right" is immoral.  That is a moral fact.  Pretty much everyone recognizes that "Might makes right" is the very antithesis of what almost everyone regards as a society that is moral.   Don't believe me?  Google "Human RIghts" sometime and you'll get an eyeful of "might makes right"...unless you really, really want us to believe that people regarded Pol Pot as a man of moral virtue...and I really don't think you do.

-Polaris

You are as fanatic in your own beliefs as a Chantry sister......

"Might makes right" is a way of thinking, it is probably even one of the purest ones. Might makes right is not "morally wrong" since it does not even follow such rules. Furthermore it is probably the only one which is even clsoe to the way the world actually works.
That you don't agree with it, is your own problem. That you "deny it" (as if what you deny has any bearing on the world) is you own damn problem. It is easy to stay on your high horse and claim that "all others than me are wrong, unless they agree with me".
To me, morality is a luxury, used and empowered by people who have never had to endure hardships.

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The veil cannot be mended once torn. Even Avernus says that. Nor can you even be sure that the magic Avernus used could be used in a case as severe as Kirkwall. Nor does the entry you linked state that Blood Magic is the ONLY way to thin the veil, only that i can be used for that purpose.

 I must have imagined that ritual as soldier's keep then.  It's canonical that a torn veil CAN be repaired albeit with extreem difficulty.  See also the Blackmarsh.  You also repair the torn veil there (pretty much explicitly).

Is the veil as strong as it was?  No.  Is it repaired?  Yes.

-Polaris

Edit:  Even if the veil IS past repairing in Kirkwall, you can do the sensible thing and NOT put the mage's circle in the magical equivalent of a toxic waste dump.

Neither Warden's Peak, nor Blackmarsh is ever fully repaired.....

[Wulfram]

You'd expect a fair amount of regression after having almost 300 years of blight in 500 years, with the intervening period not being exactly peaceful, what with Andraste's invasion of Tevinter, assorted rebellions and the foundation of the Orlesian empire.