1253 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Harid wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

Harid wrote...

Meredith didn't help anyone choose the Templar side. This is kind of clear.  If Bioware was trying to get people to sympathise with mages, having Meredith in the game directly contradicts that aim.

This was a black and black choice through and through.  Lunatic or terrorist.

But helping to protect the mages who had nothing to do with Anders' attack isn't supporting terrorism.  So it's supporting a lunatic or a group of innocent mages.

Are mages not helping to burn Kirkwall?  Or do i remember a different ending sequence than the rest of you.  Who set fire to the town?  Anders' explosion?  The mages running around town?  The Templars, maybe, for no reason?

But again, I am not getting in this argument on these forums; mages good, templars bad, blah blah blah.

It was Anders' explosion. You can see the fires rising instantly after the pink light clears.

[Harid]

esper wrote...

Harid wrote...

Meredith didn't help anyone choose the Templar side. This is kind of clear.  If Bioware was trying to get people to sympathise with mages, having Meredith in the game directly contradicts that aim.

This was a black and black choice through and through.  Lunatic or terrorist.

I don't think I understand how lunatic Meridith contradicts sympathise with mages.
And supporting the mages is not supporting Anders, it is defending them.
That said I side with mages because I do support Anders and I think he is right.

Meant "templars" there, not 'mages', sorry.

[Harid]

Xilizhra wrote...

Harid wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

Harid wrote...

Meredith didn't help anyone choose the Templar side. This is kind of clear.  If Bioware was trying to get people to sympathise with mages, having Meredith in the game directly contradicts that aim.

This was a black and black choice through and through.  Lunatic or terrorist.

But helping to protect the mages who had nothing to do with Anders' attack isn't supporting terrorism.  So it's supporting a lunatic or a group of innocent mages.

Are mages not helping to burn Kirkwall?  Or do i remember a different ending sequence than the rest of you.  Who set fire to the town?  Anders' explosion?  The mages running around town?  The Templars, maybe, for no reason?

But again, I am not getting in this argument on these forums; mages good, templars bad, blah blah blah.

It was Anders' explosion. You can see the fires rising instantly after the pink light clears.

So we are ignoring all of the mages turning to blood magic and demons, then?

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Its okay the abominations blood mages and pride demon/desire demons are just friends helping some of their innocent mage friends.

[esper]

Harid wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Harid wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

Harid wrote...

Meredith didn't help anyone choose the Templar side. This is kind of clear.  If Bioware was trying to get people to sympathise with mages, having Meredith in the game directly contradicts that aim.

This was a black and black choice through and through.  Lunatic or terrorist.

But helping to protect the mages who had nothing to do with Anders' attack isn't supporting terrorism.  So it's supporting a lunatic or a group of innocent mages.

Are mages not helping to burn Kirkwall?  Or do i remember a different ending sequence than the rest of you.  Who set fire to the town?  Anders' explosion?  The mages running around town?  The Templars, maybe, for no reason?

But again, I am not getting in this argument on these forums; mages good, templars bad, blah blah blah.

It was Anders' explosion. You can see the fires rising instantly after the pink light clears.

So we are ignoring all of the mages turning to blood magic and demons, then?

Blood magic is not inheretily evil and the demon once you fight no matter what.

[Harid]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

Its okay the abominations blood mages and pride demon/desire demons are just friends helping some of their innocent mage friends.

Pretty much.

It's why you cannot have this argument on these forums.  You are dealing with a bunch of people that clearly ignore parts of the game to strengthen their arguments.

How many good Blood Mages have we even met?  One that you can have killed?  One.  It's like. . .blood magic isn't inherently evil, except all of the evil people you meet using it.  But that one exception. . .clearly. . .proves everything wrong about Blood Magic.

Modifié par Harid, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:49 .

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Yep blood magic is not evil. Kirkwall is only built ontop of a lake of blood from slave sacrifices to help the magisters gain some power.

Mage supporters that support anders killing innocents in the chantry but do not think its alright for the templars to kill innocents. Thats just hilarious.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:50 .

[GavrielKay]

Harid wrote...
So we are ignoring all of the mages turning to blood magic and demons, then?

Are you referring to the apostates we encounter through the game or the circle mages who turn to whatever they can in order to defend themselves once the RoA is called?

The apostates crimes can't be used against circle mages because well, they aren't circle mages.

Anything the mages do in defense of their own lives is a whole different matter and couldn't have been taken into consideration at the point where you have to make the choice.

As to the fires, some of them could have been started by the rioters Meredith is sure will be out for blood.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Because turning into a demon does not further the point that the circle mages are indeed practicing blood magic or capable of summoning a demon to aid the and just prove Merediths right?

[Harid]

GavrielKay wrote...

Harid wrote...
So we are ignoring all of the mages turning to blood magic and demons, then?

Are you referring to the apostates we encounter through the game or the circle mages who turn to whatever they can in order to defend themselves once the RoA is called?

The apostates crimes can't be used against circle mages because well, they aren't circle mages.

Anything the mages do in defense of their own lives is a whole different matter and couldn't have been taken into consideration at the point where you have to make the choice.

As to the fires, some of them could have been started by the rioters Meredith is sure will be out for blood.

Uh, yeah, it is.  Turning to blood magic to protect your life is a cop out.  They already have magic, magic that makes them more powerful than their agressors by default.  And I do not feel for the weak willed people that turn to blood magic, they lose their humanity for nothing.  I am supposed to, as a regular, non magey person, back a bunch of people who sacrifice their humanity selfishly, unleashing horrors that I am supposed to deal with, summon demons that are stronger than what most people can kill plausibly but the Templars. . .for some plausible reason.  And instead of using that fact to justify the Templar ending, Bioware instead makes us back a lunatic that is being brain controlled by a lyrium idol, and these same people tell me Bioware was trying to get people to feel for the templars?  Really?  Really?

It was quite clear who Bioware wanted you to choose to back at the end of this game.

Modifié par Harid, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:55 .

[Xilizhra]

So we are ignoring all of the mages turning to blood magic and demons, then?

If by "all," you mean "one."

How many good Blood Mages have we even met? One that you can have killed? One. It's like. . .blood magic isn't inherently evil, except all of the evil people you meet using it. But that one exception. . .clearly. . .proves everything wrong about Blood Magic.

Let's see. Merrill's good. Alain's good. Grace seemed pretty fine before she was possessed. Hawke herself, potentially. Gascard is redeemable.

Mage supporters that support anders killing innocents in the chantry but do not think its alright for the templars to kill innocents. Thats just hilarious.

I wouldn't have bombed the Chantry myself, but I'll do as well as possible under these circumstances.

[Harid]

Grace?   The lunatic that killed her templar supporters for revenge?  Gascard?  The guy that was a necroprentice and helped Quentin kill?  Merill? The person who was going to let free a demon on her alienage? Really?

I'm done.

Modifié par Harid, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:57 .

[Melca36]

If  the Anders Bomb caused that much devastation. How come Cassandra is able to use the Hawke estate to question Varric?

It would take longer than 3 years to repair and rebuild everything.

Modifié par Melca36, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:57 .

[Xilizhra]

Harid wrote...

Grace? Gascard? Merill? The person who was going to let free a demon on her alienage? Really?

I'm done.

The one person who told us about the Eluvian/demon conncection was a murderous abomination. Forgive me if I don't jump to instantly believing it.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

Merrill is sweet shes not "good" shes willing to do whatever it takes to restore some of her peoples lost ways. She ended up killing the very people she tried to "help"

Thats the great thing about her shes so sweet that people forget that what shes doing is wrong and very dangerous.

Modifié par Follow Me on Twitter, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Harid wrote...

It was quite clear who Bioware wanted you to choose to back at the end of this game.

I think what is clear is that bioware did not know what the heck it was doing.

[Melca36]

Harid wrote...

Grace? Gascard? Merill? The person who was going to let free a demon on her alienage? Really?

I'm done.

If you read the freaking codexes and played Legacy you would be able to grasp that there were things going in Kirkwall that affected both mages and templars.

To lump every single mage as being power hungry fiends is closeminded.  The fault goes on both sides.

[Xilizhra]

Follow Me on Twitter wrote...

Merrill is sweet shes not "good" shes willing to do whatever it takes to restore some of her peoples lost ways. She ended up killing the very people she tried to "help"

Thats the great thing about her shes so sweet that people forget that what shes doing is wrong and very dangerous.

Ahahahaha. MARETHARI got herself possessed, and if Hawke doesn't knuckle under to them, the clan will suicide rush her. That's their own damned fault, not Merrill's.

[Harid]

Melca36 wrote...

Harid wrote...

Grace? Gascard? Merill? The person who was going to let free a demon on her alienage? Really?

I'm done.

If you read the freaking codexes and played Legacy you would be able to grasp that there were things going in Kirkwall that affected both mages and templars.

To lump every single mage as being power hungry fiends is closeminded.  The fault goes on both sides.

I don't really give a crap about codex written cop outs for the people in Kirkwall.

If Bioware wanted to make that part of the ingame lore, you as a mage would be visited by demons.  It never happens because the codex was a cop out for their crappy writing.

[LobselVith8]

Harid wrote...

You are fighting in his war by choosing his side quite directly, killing him or no.

Not to mention the regular people mages are killing.

I guess they really don't matter because you don't see them though.

Hawke is protecting mages from execution by siding against Meredith.

By "regular people," you mean the armed and armored soldiers who were ordered to kill an entire population of people, from the eldest man to the youngest child? Mages are trying to protect themselves against execution.

Am I supposed to feel bad because hundreds of mages refuse to die? Why should any of them die for an act none of the mages were responsible for? What the mages are doing sounds like self-defense to me.

[Melca36]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Harid wrote...

It was quite clear who Bioware wanted you to choose to back at the end of this game.

I think what is clear is that bioware did not know what the heck it was doing.

Exactly...The game's massive weakness is that they did NOT convey the story in a way for people to see both sides.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

No, she let the demon take her because she cared for Merrill and knew that she was going to end up being the demons first victim. It was because of the fact that Merrill ignored her peoples wish for her to not pursue fixing the mirror that lead to her keeper doing this.

[Xilizhra]

Harid wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Harid wrote...

Grace? Gascard? Merill? The person who was going to let free a demon on her alienage? Really?

I'm done.

If you read the freaking codexes and played Legacy you would be able to grasp that there were things going in Kirkwall that affected both mages and templars.

To lump every single mage as being power hungry fiends is closeminded.  The fault goes on both sides.

I don't really give a crap about codex written cop outs for the people in Kirkwall.

If Bioware wanted to make that part of the ingame lore, you as a mage would be visited by demons.  It never happens because the codex was a cop out for their crappy writing.

So, you complain about the lore after not reading the lore, because... what, reading is hard?

No, she let the demon take her because she cared for Merrill and knew that she was going to end up being the demons first victim. It was because of the fact that Merrill ignored her peoples wish for her to not pursue fixing the mirror that lead to her keeper doing this.

So she claims. After being possessed. It's astonishing how many people will take a non-Anders abomination's word at face value.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:03 .

[GavrielKay]

Harid wrote...
Uh, yeah, it is.  Turning to blood magic to protect your life is a cop out.  They already have magic, magic that makes them more powerful than their agressors by default.

First off, anything they do in defense of their lives happens after you choose to support the RoA or not, so can't factor into the decision.  Second, blood magic is a tool, not inherently good or evil.  Using a tool to defend your life sounds pretty reasonable to me.  Turning into an abomination is not reasonable, but by the time you're going to die anyway, you're probably not making rational decisions.

Second, the magic you think they should use is exactly what the Templars are trained to defend against, so that argument is just silly.

And I do not feel for the weak willed people that turn to blood magic, they lose their humanity for nothing.

Blood magic doesn't cost them their humanity.  Using it for mind control or taking someone else's blood by force is a different matter.  Using their own blood to defend their own life seems pretty human to me.

And instead of using that fact to justify the Templar ending, Bioware instead makes us back a lunatic that is being brain controlled by a lyrium idol, and these same people tell me Bioware was trying to get people to feel for the templars?  Really?  Really?

They appear to be trying to make it a "gray" choice by making sure you end up hating both sides.  It only kinda worked.  The choice wasn't gray, but both sides got to look stupid.

What kind of Templar is Meredith anyway that she goes out and buys this crazy primeval lyrium idol and makes it into a sword?  That doesn't sound like the sort of thing a strict Templar ought to do.

[Harid]

Xilizhra wrote...

Harid wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Harid wrote...

Grace? Gascard? Merill? The person who was going to let free a demon on her alienage? Really?

I'm done.

If you read the freaking codexes and played Legacy you would be able to grasp that there were things going in Kirkwall that affected both mages and templars.

To lump every single mage as being power hungry fiends is closeminded.  The fault goes on both sides.

I don't really give a crap about codex written cop outs for the people in Kirkwall.

If Bioware wanted to make that part of the ingame lore, you as a mage would be visited by demons.  It never happens because the codex was a cop out for their crappy writing.

So, you complain about the lore after not reading the lore, because... what, reading is hard?

I read the lore.  The lore is a cop out.  Understood?