280 réponses à ce sujet

[Wynne]

Carfax wrote...

Let me explain.  Feminism is garbage because it is based on a false premise.  The idea that men and women are equal is patently false.  Life itself is fundamentally unequal, as well as unfair.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.....only a honest look at the World.  Women have their burdens, and so do men.

But people like you, and the feminists, seem to content yourselves with artificial equality that must be imposed upon Society via laws, rules and regulations that do not work, and even increase the level of unequality in many ways.

The idea that men and women are the same is false. The idea that we are equal in value as individual human beings is true. The idea that life itself is fundamentally unequal is essentially accepting prejudice as inevitable--giving up people being treated equally just because things aren't the same. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Feminists are not always interested in faulty regulations being implemented. Some of us are aware that those things don't work--that change is a slow and natural process which cannot be forced. But the fact that life for men and women has become more equal in the last few centuries--through factors such as increased communication between the genders  and through the influence of the scientific method teaching us how to eliminate biased and illogical opinions and stereotypes on the opposite sex--shows us that there is no reason to believe it can't continue to get better.

Assuming we don't all accept the status quo, that is.


As to the more game-related topic at hand, I'll throw my hat in with the people who say "they're Spectres and can do whatever the hell they please."

Modifié par Wynne, 29 août 2011 - 08:16 .

[sorentoft]

Captain Crash wrote...

krzimmer wrote...

Carfax wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

First of all, everything you just said is HARDLY, if at all, true. Real Feminism is the support of equal rights for woman. I don't care who you ask THAT'S what it means. So they only way you could hate Feminisim is if you don't believe woman should have equal rights. Make your call.

Let me explain.  Feminism is garbage because it is based on a false premise.  The idea that men and women are equal is patently false.  Life itself is fundamentally unequal, as well as unfair.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.....only a honest look at the World.  Women have their burdens, and so do men.

But people like you, and the feminists, seem to content yourselves with artificial equality that must be imposed upon Society via laws, rules and regulations that do not work, and even increase the level of unequality in many ways.

Thats fine, but don't expect me to see it for anything other than what it is.

Well said.

How is it well said?  Its a game based on an idealistic future where humans are treated equally. Its been happening since ME and now someone says that the ME universe shouldnt represent an idealistic future because its unrealistic in todays society?


Its the future, its a game, its fantasy where everyone can participate!! 

No it is not. If anything ME reinforces the current image of the world:

Earth codex entry:

The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art. The great cities are greening as arcology skyscrapers and telecommuting allow more efficient use of land.

Earth is still divided among nation-states, though all are affiliated beneath the overarching banner of the Systems Alliance.While every human enjoys longer and better life then ever, the gap between rich and poor widens daily. Advanced nations have eliminated most genetic diseaseand pollution. Less fortunate regions have not progressed beyond 20th century technology, and are often smog-choked, overpopulated slums.

Sea levels have risen two meters in the last 200 years, and violent weather is common due to environmental damage inflicted during the late 21st century. The past few decades, however, have seen significant improvement due to recent technological advances.

Modifié par sorentoft, 29 août 2011 - 08:16 .

[armass]

If Ashley is indeed a spectre, im curious to find how she got into and accepted the position. Being so human centric still, does she realize spectre has to put herself above her own species and work for the good of all, not just her own species. Thats the ideal anyways, she might just play lip service to the whole thing like renegade Shepards. Id imagine Kaiden will have less hard time with the job than Ashley in this regard.

Modifié par armass, 29 août 2011 - 08:23 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

It's gotten complicated because they're also spectors sense no other aliens have hair we have no examples of how a spector should look. We know they wear what they want and they do what they want side jobs like working for the SB is also OK so long as it doesn't hinder whatever personal operation the specor is working on so the women having their hair down if they feel it doesn't impact their job performance then they can do so regardless of what others think.

For instance if I thought running around like Jack and being a subscriber to the inverse armor theory if I think that helps my job by causing my male enemies to pause then I can go do that unless the council says for me to put some clothing on. Ash could feel in someway this new hair do is great during battle or she could wear hair down on ship but once we take her (or she goes) into battle she'll pull it up.

I'm taken a back by what I consider Ash's lack of discipline sense in ME she was all about the discipline outside of falling for mshep. I would prefer her to have hair up in battle like I'd prefer Jack to have armor on but Spector Ash can do what she wants so long as it doesn't interfere with Spector Shepard's mission.


EDIT: Ash actually can be a human centric spector so long as she feels it doesn't hinder or impact her mission she chooses to undertake when not on council specific orders. Saren was a racist and Turian centrist he choose to protect the Turian race by joining the reapers and he has a record of human hate so being racially/species blind is not criteria for spectorship.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 29 août 2011 - 08:31 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

Uhm... Okay, admittedly, i havn't read all the pages of this yet but i would just like to say:

I have long hair, down to my rear end. It is a heck of a lot easier to manage than hair that's cut just above the collar. Long hair that can be braided away from the face is always a lot more practical than hair cut to jaw length that "goes nuts" regularly.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 29 août 2011 - 09:02 .

[Spartas Husky]

More Choices are never bad.

[nitefyre410]

Nope not touching this one with 10 foot pole... not all.

[Carfax]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
As far as the futuristic universe of ME goes, I think that it's entirely possible that females could compete physically with males, given the medical advances and body modifications available (boneweave, genetic engineering, etc.).

I thought genetic engineering was illegal in the ME setting?

[Spartas Husky]

Carfax wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
As far as the futuristic universe of ME goes, I think that it's entirely possible that females could compete physically with males, given the medical advances and body modifications available (boneweave, genetic engineering, etc.).

I thought genetic engineering was illegal in the ME setting?

it is not within certain parameters.

[Leonia]

AI research is the big no-no, genetic engineering is quite common.. just look at Miranda.

[Spartas Husky]

leonia42 wrote...

AI research is the big no-no, genetic engineering is quite common.. just look at Miranda.

....thats pushing it. From the overall shape of the chracters, miranda's genetic engineering is not at all common.

I...dare not say what has happended to men and women across the years but. ANyways miranda is an exception.

[Carfax]

leggywillow wrote...

Carfax wrote...
Let me explain.  Feminism is garbage because it is based on a false premise.  The idea that men and women are equal is patently false.  Life itself is fundamentally unequal, as well as unfair.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.....only a honest look at the World.  Women have their burdens, and so do men.

But people like you, and the feminists, seem to content yourselves with artificial equality that must be imposed upon Society via laws, rules and regulations that do not work, and even increase the level of unequality in many ways.

Thats fine, but don't expect me to see it for anything other than what it is.

Life may always end up being unfair or unequal, but humanity has always been at its best when we don't just roll over and accept it.  Of course if you'd prefer, you can just hop in my time machine and go back to the days before the Nineteenth Amendment or the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  We can even drop you off before the Magna Carta is signed, if you want.  No liquid containers over 3 ounces in the time machine, please.

First off, the concept of equality (at least as I understand it) is a lot different than people having rights and liberties (these are viewed as inalienable by Civilized Societies) , so lets not get the two of them confused.

Equality to me implies sameness, which is different.  Thus, bringing up the Civil Rights Act etc doesn't really impinge on my arguement.

Should people have rights and liberties?  Absolutely.  However, can all people be equal?  The answer to that is no, and no amount of rules, laws or regulations will ever change that fact.

As I said, the very nature of the World itself is unequal.

[Spartas Husky]

and here we go again.

[Captain Crash]

sorentoft wrote...

No it is not. If anything ME reinforces the current image of the world:

Earth codex entry:

Well you completely missed the point and context of my post and used it to suit another agenda. How can it be ideal with mercs and slavery still occuring for example?  I used "idealic" to reference the fact that in the game females and males are both treated equally and gender isnt an issue.   I felt my post was quite clear in that comparision but obviously not...

Anyway Leonia sums it up nicely here

leonia42 wrote...

In almost every RPG where the player can choose the gender of their character, women and men are treated as equals.

Also nitefyre has totally the right idea and I think I will join him.  I got no idea whats going on in this thread anymore.  Wasnt it supposed to be about haircuts and bun styles?  

 

nitefyre410 wrote...

Nope not touching this one with 10 foot pole... not all.

[Spartas Husky]

Captain Crash wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

In almost every RPG where the player can choose the gender of their character, women and men are treated as equals.

Doesn't bethesda games grant intelligence and agility bonuses to females, or endurance and strength to males?

[Captain Crash]

Yes but only starting traits. After two or three levels these can be offset and can disappear entirely.

Anyway a couple of points on a chart doesnt stop Bethesda's female characters doing exactly the same thing and learning the same things as males. Like Bioware they are essentially gender neutral.

Just thought I would clear that up. Although what context this thread now has to the OP is anyones guess...

[KingNothing125]

ah BSN... it's nice to know that FemShep's isn't the only hair style you argue about.

[Bluko]

Cousin It  was one heck of marksmen...




Look I don't mind there being more hair options, but they need to be reasonable. It looks really stupid to have characters that are suppose to aim weapons with long hair in their face. Ponytails and the like are fine, but seriously Shepard is not suppose to be Barbie or Ken with the purpose of looking pretty. Shepard is a soldier no matter who or what they are working with. If either Shepard does have long hair it should be fixed in a manner that's non-intrusive.

I suppose now I'm going to get the rebuttal "LOL it's just a game and I wanna make my fantasy FemShep with long hair in her face cuz that's hot!"

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Mystch3vi0us wrote...

I've been starting to get really wigged out and worried that somewhere along the lines the art staff has forgotten that Shepard and Ashley are still members of the Alliance military meaning they keep their hair above the collar.  It's a small gripe but it allso maintains that we don't have a duel wielding sheppard running around in a bathingsuit bouncing all around the place because that's how the new gravimetric bra systems work or some bs.  It's a small complaint but an easy thing to keep an eye out for. 

So please please please bioware for all of us military folk out there, keep femshep looking like she's a strong military woman and not some armored playbunny.  <3

UMMM... You do know that most contemporary Special operations forces hair length and grooming generally is very lax for obvious reasons. I don't see why tha wouldn't apply in the ME universe.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Can't believe this survived this long after veering to be derailed but I guess the hairier it is, the merrier.

[habitat 67]

I want my apocalyptic Fallout hairstyles.

[Carfax]

Wynne wrote...

The idea that men and women are the same is false. The idea that we are equal in value as individual human beings is true. The idea that life itself is fundamentally unequal is essentially accepting prejudice as inevitable--giving up people being treated equally just because things aren't the same. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Actually, this is also a false statement.  If you look at the birth ratio, males are born more often than females. 

Why is this?

Because men die at a significantly faster rate than women, usually via Wars and other dangerous and violent activities.  So even Mother Nature itself seems blithely aware that men are more "expendable" than women.
And Civilized Societies tend to hold this view as well, because men do all the dangerous jobs and fight all the Wars so that women are spared from doing these things themselves.  When the Titanic went down, men that could have saved themselves gave up their own lives so that the women and children could escape.

Feminists are not always interested in faulty regulations being implemented. Some of us are aware that those things don't work--that change is a slow and natural process which cannot be forced. But the fact that life for men and women has become more equal in the last few centuries--through factors such as increased communication between the genders  and through the influence of the scientific method teaching us how to eliminate biased and illogical opinions and stereotypes on the opposite sex--shows us that there is no reason to believe it can't continue to get better.

I don't think things have necessarily become more equal.  It's just that people finally recognized that the "old ways" were hampering progress, and that artificially limiting women was both silly and harmful.  There is no greater equality between men and women today (at least not in the true sense), than at any previous time in History. 

Whats changed is the perception of men and womens' roles in Society.  Men are still men and women are still women however, with all their advantages and limitations intact.

Modifié par Carfax, 29 août 2011 - 11:52 .

[ProSkill]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Whoa, supporting long hair in a VIDEO GAME (when Shepard is no longer in the freaking military no less) makes one a feminist now? This changes everything.

'Feminism' is one term that's overused/misused a lot on BSN....mainly by those that have never read a real feminist piece of literature. 

You mean like this?

[Nashiktal]

Mother nature allows more men to be born because of war?

lolwat?