135 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

True, and they hit on another because they are moving. The direction they are going is becase of the book. So in the end the book cause the the balls to movemany directions.
Also, throw does not work like that.....Shock wave does.

How?  Book makes them move in ONE direction! A book doesn't make the balls roll from underneath it in 360 degrees. 

Shockwave doesn't do what you say. Shockwave works like a carpet, throwing everybody upwards and sideways! So basically shockwave works more like the throw you describe. 

Yes it does. But not the exact same direction. If it did, the ball will never hit one another.

It's still very little, and balls don't roll 360 degrees from underneth right?

How do you get 360 degrees from diffent directions? Think of it as intersectiing vector points, each as their own starting point and it own ending point and in the middle they turn every time a vector point intersects.

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Throw is measure by newtons    http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Throw.....It's a force.

It's a gravity force. You won't feel a biotic push, you would just feel that you are sudenly falling on the wall instead of ground.
Note that if it's not enough to fall on the wall, then you would feel as if you have just accelerated fast on a race car and you would be dragged to the wall, but you could still hold on, because the gravity is stronger.

So what? It's still a force. What you are discribing is still a force.  Look it up..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force

It still goes in one direction! 

Throw IS a Pull, only reverse, without zero gravity and with raw force.

No it's not. If it where then the target would not fall so quickly. And it's measured by newtons.

Ok. I get your point. Then why isn't the throw that you are ''hurling'' at the enemy doen't become bigger when you purchase a radius upgrade? Why is the radius coming out of a blast? The throw should just become bigger and affect everything along the path.

[D.Kain]

Reptillius wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Throw is measure by newtons    http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Throw.....It's a force.

It's a gravity force. You won't feel a biotic push, you would just feel that you are sudenly falling on the wall instead of ground.
Note that if it's not enough to fall on the wall, then you would feel as if you have just accelerated fast on a race car and you would be dragged to the wall, but you could still hold on, because the gravity is stronger.

Incorrect. You would feel pushed. You would feel forced from where you are to a new position.

Your race car is a good analogy. When you suddenly hurtling forward and accelerating what you feel is not yourself suddenly moving in that direction. That would be more akin to the weightlessness in an elevator. What you feel is the pressure of the seat pressing against you and shoving in that new direction that you are being sent.

If it worked the way you are describing it then It would work closer to horror movie physics were something is grabbing you by the belt and your folded in half by the force of your body against the air your being moved through and it bending at the natural weak point of your hips.

The above comment for you too. 

[D.Kain]

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm....all of this is moot point really.....Jack can use Biotics to simply apply an impact force soooooo......why not any other biotic?

I don't know. The whole biotics thing is getting harder and harder to understand with each cutscene, and shockwaves, charge, Samara flying...

[crimzontearz]

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm....all of this is moot point really.....Jack can use Biotics to simply apply an impact force soooooo......why not any other biotic?

I don't know. The whole biotics thing is getting harder and harder to understand with each cutscene, and shockwaves, charge, Samara flying...

Charge and Samara Flying are easily explainable

Shockwave.....eh not sure about that

[D.Kain]

crimzontearz wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm....all of this is moot point really.....Jack can use Biotics to simply apply an impact force soooooo......why not any other biotic?

I don't know. The whole biotics thing is getting harder and harder to understand with each cutscene, and shockwaves, charge, Samara flying...

Charge and Samara Flying are easily explainable

Shockwave.....eh not sure about that

Charge is explainable as long as it doesn't go through debris, and it does.. 

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Throw is measure by newtons    http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Throw.....It's a force.

It's a gravity force. You won't feel a biotic push, you would just feel that you are sudenly falling on the wall instead of ground.
Note that if it's not enough to fall on the wall, then you would feel as if you have just accelerated fast on a race car and you would be dragged to the wall, but you could still hold on, because the gravity is stronger.

So what? It's still a force. What you are discribing is still a force.  Look it up..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force

It still goes in one direction! 

Throw IS a Pull, only reverse, without zero gravity and with raw force.

No it's not. If it where then the target would not fall so quickly. And it's measured by newtons.

Ok. I get your point. Then why isn't the throw that you are ''hurling'' at the enemy doen't become bigger when you purchase a radius upgrade? Why is the radius coming out of a blast? The throw should just become bigger and affect everything along the path.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Throw#Throw_Field
Throw Field

• Your mastery of biotic throws allows you to hurl multiple targets into the air simultaneously.
  
  
• Recharge Time: 3.00 seconds (Shepard); 9.00 seconds (others)
• Force: 900.00 newtons
• Impact Radius: 3.00 meters
  

You really have to ask? Throw field has a limited area of concentration

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm....all of this is moot point really.....Jack can use Biotics to simply apply an impact force soooooo......why not any other biotic?

I don't know. The whole biotics thing is getting harder and harder to understand with each cutscene, and shockwaves, charge, Samara flying...

Charge and Samara Flying are easily explainable

Shockwave.....eh not sure about that

Charge is explainable as long as it doesn't go through debris, and it does.. 

That explainible, too. Mass effect field change mass, hence the name.

[crimzontearz]

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm....all of this is moot point really.....Jack can use Biotics to simply apply an impact force soooooo......why not any other biotic?

I don't know. The whole biotics thing is getting harder and harder to understand with each cutscene, and shockwaves, charge, Samara flying...

Charge and Samara Flying are easily explainable

Shockwave.....eh not sure about that

Charge is explainable as long as it doesn't go through debris, and it does.. 

uhm....not really.

Basically the Vanguard makes the point of origin and the point of arrival nearly coincide by bending the space between them through a Mass Effect field. Then he/she just moves forward..... debrids are irrelevant as they are irrelevant for relays

[D.Kain]

crimzontearz wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm....all of this is moot point really.....Jack can use Biotics to simply apply an impact force soooooo......why not any other biotic?

I don't know. The whole biotics thing is getting harder and harder to understand with each cutscene, and shockwaves, charge, Samara flying...

Charge and Samara Flying are easily explainable

Shockwave.....eh not sure about that

Charge is explainable as long as it doesn't go through debris, and it does.. 

uhm....not really.

Basically the Vanguard makes the point of origin and the point of arrival nearly coincide by bending the space between them through a Mass Effect field. Then he/she just moves forward..... debrids are irrelevant as they are irrelevant for relays

Sounds like Vangaurd mastered biotics to a better degree than an Adept. That sounds very hard to do. 

@Dreman9999

Proved your point, I agree and am never afraid to lose, as long as there are good arguments. Though that raises some questions about how pull works, and why doesn't singularity crush enemies caught inside. Yeah the whole biotic concept is a bit overwhelming.

[crimzontearz]

no one ever said the Vanguard is less of a Biotic than the adept. Merely differently focused

[D.Kain]

Though one last question. Shoudln't Throw work 180 degrees then? And not make enemies that it just passed on it's way backwards?

[Reptillius]

D Kain.

I would agree with you that it should hit everything in it's path though not necessarily all in the direction of your throw... But then they wouldn't need shockwave. But to me shockwave doesn't work right to begin with so I would totally be fine with that.

A path would make sense... Sadly at this point it is kind of a mental grenade like affect... Whether you consider it more a mortar round that you are tossing from above or it hitting it's point and exploding.

One way you could think about it realistically is a controlled burst effect. You ball it all up tightly because the tighter it is balled the more energy is going to come out of it when it is released. The projectile could stand in for this tightly massed ball of compressed force.

When you get it to the point where you want to unleash it then you could look at it in one of two ways. Either letting go of that force or litterally pushing it out from it's center.

When you consider an Area throw then with this in mind you could consider you balled up all of that force or pushed all that force out of that tight little ball to spread as far as you can over that particular area and it's displacing every item not nailed down in that area as much as it can. (certian game limitations about boxes and stuff not withstanding)

Where as in a heavy throw type cituation instead of pushing it out as wide as you can in all directions. Your more making a hole in that ball towards a particular enemy and forcing all that energy out of the ball through that hole to instead hit that particular target just absolutely as hard as you can instead of over as big an area as possible.

Edit: ideally to me shockwave or perhaps throw would work more like say a bus shoving cars out of the way...pushing them away from it's invisible energy force but they might just as likely be thrown sideways more than in front of it unless they were hit fully head on.

Modifié par Reptillius, 29 août 2011 - 10:47 .

[D.Kain]

Reptillius wrote...

D Kain.

I would agree with you that it should hit everything in it's path though not necessarily all in the direction of your throw... But then they wouldn't need shockwave. But to me shockwave doesn't work right to begin with so I would totally be fine with that.

A path would make sense... Sadly at this point it is kind of a mental grenade like affect... Whether you consider it more a mortar round that you are tossing from above or it hitting it's point and exploding.

One way you could think about it realistically is a controlled burst effect. You ball it all up tightly because the tighter it is balled the more energy is going to come out of it when it is released. The projectile could stand in for this tightly massed ball of compressed force.

When you get it to the point where you want to unleash it then you could look at it in one of two ways. Either letting go of that force or litterally pushing it out from it's center.

When you consider an Area throw then with this in mind you could consider you balled up all of that force or pushed all that force out of that tight little ball to spread as far as you can over that particular area and it's displacing every item not nailed down in that area as much as it can. (certian game limitations about boxes and stuff not withstanding)

Where as in a heavy throw type cituation instead of pushing it out as wide as you can in all directions. Your more making a hole in that ball towards a particular enemy and forcing all that energy out of the ball through that hole to instead hit that particular target just absolutely as hard as you can instead of over as big an area as possible.

Sounds pretty good. 

[D.Kain]

Reptillius wrote...

Edit: ideally to me shockwave or perhaps throw would work more like say a bus shoving cars out of the way...pushing them away from it's invisible energy force but they might just as likely be thrown sideways more than in front of it unless they were hit fully head on.

Then ideally the last evolution of throw would work like a proper shockwave, and shockwave could be replaced with something like biotic repulse that throws everything away from the biotic 360 degrees. Kinda like what Morinth did in her fight with Samara.

Modifié par D.Kain, 29 août 2011 - 10:49 .

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm....all of this is moot point really.....Jack can use Biotics to simply apply an impact force soooooo......why not any other biotic?

I don't know. The whole biotics thing is getting harder and harder to understand with each cutscene, and shockwaves, charge, Samara flying...

Charge and Samara Flying are easily explainable

Shockwave.....eh not sure about that

Charge is explainable as long as it doesn't go through debris, and it does.. 

uhm....not really.

Basically the Vanguard makes the point of origin and the point of arrival nearly coincide by bending the space between them through a Mass Effect field. Then he/she just moves forward..... debrids are irrelevant as they are irrelevant for relays

Sounds like Vangaurd mastered biotics to a better degree than an Adept. That sounds very hard to do. 

@Dreman9999

Proved your point, I agree and am never afraid to lose, as long as there are good arguments. Though that raises some questions about how pull works, and why doesn't singularity crush enemies caught inside. Yeah the whole biotic concept is a bit overwhelming.

Vanguards streght is with shields, which is a more internal biotic power. Adepts are more exturnal.
Also,  Singularity in ME1 and ME2(not counting the singularity gun) many not explode, but they do in ME3...http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8213000
I does not crush enemies in it because the biotic is not strong enough ....yet.

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...

Vanguards strength is with shields, which is a more internal biotic power. Adepts are more exturnal.
Also,  Singularity in ME1 and ME2(not counting the singularity gun) many not explode, but they do in ME3...http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8213000
It does not crush enemies in it because the biotic is not strong enough ....yet.

Oh the biotic power that would replicate what singularuty gun does would be so awesome. 

[Reptillius]

Well it does have a bleed effect. that could be contributed to a minor crushing/tearing affect of the gravity well on the body versus the normal gravity. And that damage can be increased somewhat.

[Hathur]

Seeing a whoooole lotta in this thread.

Do continue though.. 'tis most amusing.

[D.Kain]

Hathur wrote...

Seeing a whoooole lotta in this thread.

Do continue though.. 'tis most amusing.

No, it's actually over, we understood each other, and came to a conclusion. 

[Hathur]

^ Well that's unfortunate. I went and made popcorn and everything... 

[The Spamming Troll]

D.Kain wrote...

Yes why not just make throw work instant and without targeting, and make it knockdown enemies in completely random directions.

i agree with you. im not sure how people wouldnt understand what your getting at. theres no reason to curve a throw field if the direction ofthe curve serves no funtion to the surrounding enemies. if i see a group of enemies near a cliff and i use throw, i want ALL OF THEM to get thrown off the cliff, not the one i targeted while the others just get thrown in a circular patern. thats not throw, thats more like harbingers biotic bubble.

[D.Kain]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Yes why not just make throw work instant and without targeting, and make it knockdown enemies in completely random directions.

i agree with you. im not sure how people wouldnt understand what your getting at. theres no reason to curve a throw field if the direction ofthe curve serves no funtion to the surrounding enemies. if i see a group of enemies near a cliff and i use throw, i want ALL OF THEM to get thrown off the cliff, not the one i targeted while the others just get thrown in a circular patern. thats not throw, thats more like harbingers biotic bubble.

It would be nice if throw could be detonated manually any moment of the flight.

[crimzontearz]

I just want the BS to stop with defenses providing immunity from biotics

[D.Kain]

crimzontearz wrote...

I just want the BS to stop with defenses providing immunity from biotics

Mod the coeleased.ini. Problem solved. That was never an issue for me.) My throws knocked fully shielded and armored mechs.

Modifié par D.Kain, 29 août 2011 - 11:34 .