896 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenDragon37]

crimzontearz wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Because you can't control life. If this is a war, someone is going to die. Maybe it is your friend, maybe it's a random soldier under your commnand, but it will happen. In war, you can't save everyone. Every soldier knows this. Everyone who leads knows this. Shepard (no matter how Paragon) knows this. Will he try to save everyone? Yes. Can he? No. But he knows that he can make sure that their deaths will not have been in vain.

I'm a Paragage, but with a strong lead towards Paragon, but even my Shep knows that he isn't perfect. He can't save everyone, but not making their deaths mean something... that is the greatest betrayl of his men and women.

No, you can't save everyone, and Shepard hasn't.  That's my point.  We've already had the requisite 'these people WILL die moments', and again, that's the bare MINIMUM.  Want to get that one more mission, buy that one more upgrade before you go get your crew? Congratulations, you've just lost another 12 people (on the low end of Normandy crew estimates, I'd think more like 25), irrespective of Squadmates.  Shepard didn't save the 20 Cruisers the Turians lost at the Citadel and didn't save the 8 cruisers humanity lost.  Shepard won't save the billions of people about to die in the Reaper invasion.  There is, however, no reason Shepard can't make sure the people immediately around him/her survive.

Because Shep is Human, he/she has flaws. As do his/her squadmates. The greatest threat that the galaxy has ever faced is no-longer distant... it's here, right now, in a mostly un-prepared galaxy. From the sounds of everything, Shep's squad will be heading right into the thick of the Reaper invasion points. I think people realize that now, Shep can't save everyone on his team, not while the Reapers are here and throwing everything they can at them.

again....your opinion on what can/cannot happen

as you can see other people's ideas, prreferences and desires can be VERY much different

just like YOU would not like a sunshine and bunnies ending shoved down your throat maybe, JUST maybe other people do not want a bittersweet ending or forced deaths without the element of choice thrown in

Again: why are you fine with being forced to sacrifice entire civilizations, but not your own people? Who would willingly die to save the galaxy they know and love? Everything should be on the table, even Shepard, which should be one of the biggest choices of them all, with consequences.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 31 août 2011 - 01:40 .

[crimzontearz]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I just wonder why all the people who don't want anyone to die aren't off playing, I don't know, farmville or something. Why do you expect to play a war game--and not just war, but war with a species almost infinitely more capable than yourself--and not lose people?

different tastes?

different sense of worth?

why don't you go play Halo Reach or Red Dead Redemption if you want a downer ending when I want  my story to have a perfect ending?

Wait..if choice is given we do not have to play different games because we can choose the outcomes and craft them to our desires!

So, planets are acceptable, but squadmates aren't? Everything should be on the table, even your squadmates, who are spearheading the entire assault on the Reapers. Not just their minions, the actual Reapers... on the front lines.

yup...that's how my tastes run..yours might be different....hence why the best way to handle this is being given CHOICE

[crimzontearz]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Because you can't control life. If this is a war, someone is going to die. Maybe it is your friend, maybe it's a random soldier under your commnand, but it will happen. In war, you can't save everyone. Every soldier knows this. Everyone who leads knows this. Shepard (no matter how Paragon) knows this. Will he try to save everyone? Yes. Can he? No. But he knows that he can make sure that their deaths will not have been in vain.

I'm a Paragage, but with a strong lead towards Paragon, but even my Shep knows that he isn't perfect. He can't save everyone, but not making their deaths mean something... that is the greatest betrayl of his men and women.

No, you can't save everyone, and Shepard hasn't.  That's my point.  We've already had the requisite 'these people WILL die moments', and again, that's the bare MINIMUM.  Want to get that one more mission, buy that one more upgrade before you go get your crew? Congratulations, you've just lost another 12 people (on the low end of Normandy crew estimates, I'd think more like 25), irrespective of Squadmates.  Shepard didn't save the 20 Cruisers the Turians lost at the Citadel and didn't save the 8 cruisers humanity lost.  Shepard won't save the billions of people about to die in the Reaper invasion.  There is, however, no reason Shepard can't make sure the people immediately around him/her survive.

Because Shep is Human, he/she has flaws. As do his/her squadmates. The greatest threat that the galaxy has ever faced is no-longer distant... it's here, right now, in a mostly un-prepared galaxy. From the sounds of everything, Shep's squad will be heading right into the thick of the Reaper invasion points. I think people realize that now, Shep can't save everyone on his team, not while the Reapers are here and throwing everything they can at them.

again....your opinion on what can/cannot happen

as you can see other people's ideas, prreferences and desires can be VERY much different

just like YOU would not like a sunshine and bunnies ending shoved down your throat maybe, JUST maybe other people do not want a bittersweet ending or forced deaths without the element of choice thrown in

Again: why are you fine with being forced to sacrifice entire civilizations, but not your own people? Who would willingly die to save the galaxy they know and love? Everything should be on the table.

I just explained

[TheOptimist]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I just wonder why all the people who don't want anyone to die aren't off playing, I don't know, farmville or something. Why do you expect to play a war game--and not just war, but war with a species almost infinitely more capable than yourself--and not lose people?

Again, we already lost a **** ton of people.  Rooting for more death just for the sake of your misplaced sense of drama is just ludicrous.  I could say the samething to you folks, want mass death and high drama? Go play LA Noire or GTA.  This is a story about a hero, not about someone who wasn't quite good enough.

[Ghost Warrior]

crimzontearz wrote...


again....your opinion on what can/cannot happen

Just like yours.

as you can see other people's ideas, prreferences and desires can be VERY much different

Duh? So what does that mean? I can't have my own preferences?

just like YOU would not like a sunshine and bunnies ending shoved down your throat maybe, JUST maybe other people do not want a bittersweet ending or forced deaths without the element of choice thrown in

Nobody said anything against element of choice. I also want multiple endigs,few bad and few good. But given the size of the threat,I don't want a perfect ending.

[yoshibb]

If it happens like it did on Virmire, then I'm fine with it.

If it happens like this then I'll be pissed (WARNING major spoiler for Dead Rising 2): www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par yoshibb, 31 août 2011 - 01:43 .

[Someone With Mass]

Undertone wrote...

Because it's a war story and not a 10 year old kid's game/book/movie.

Oh. Then Mass Effect 3 is losing by default.

Because I doubt they could do something like this and get away with it.

By the way. People have already died by the millions across the galaxy. If that's not enough to still your warmongering, you have issues.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 31 août 2011 - 01:46 .

[GreenDragon37]

crimzontearz wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I just wonder why all the people who don't want anyone to die aren't off playing, I don't know, farmville or something. Why do you expect to play a war game--and not just war, but war with a species almost infinitely more capable than yourself--and not lose people?

different tastes?

different sense of worth?

why don't you go play Halo Reach or Red Dead Redemption if you want a downer ending when I want  my story to have a perfect ending?

Wait..if choice is given we do not have to play different games because we can choose the outcomes and craft them to our desires!

So, planets are acceptable, but squadmates aren't? Everything should be on the table, even your squadmates, who are spearheading the entire assault on the Reapers. Not just their minions, the actual Reapers... on the front lines.

yup...that's how my tastes run..yours might be different....hence why the best way to handle this is being given CHOICE

What if my tastes were to join Seran? Maybe I wanted to join the Reapers? Those are my tastes, yours may run different. It's a choice!

See, when telling a story, you just have to accept that you can't have everything as a choice. There are things that are... enivitable, and we have to deal with it.

[GreenDragon37]

TheOptimist wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I just wonder why all the people who don't want anyone to die aren't off playing, I don't know, farmville or something. Why do you expect to play a war game--and not just war, but war with a species almost infinitely more capable than yourself--and not lose people?

Again, we already lost a **** ton of people.  Rooting for more death just for the sake of your misplaced sense of drama is just ludicrous.  I could say the samething to you folks, want mass death and high drama? Go play LA Noire or GTA.  This is a story about a hero, not about someone who wasn't quite good enough.

A **** ton of people that you never actually saw or talked to. Even heros have faults. Even heros lose sometimes. Look at the Dark Knight.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 31 août 2011 - 01:46 .

[Ghost Warrior]

crimzontearz wrote...

it makes sense for the council to BELIEVE shepard after sovereign nearly violated them rectally....yet they do not....

it's not a matter of "sense" it's a matter of "satisfaction" in this case. MY satisfaction is muchly different than yours but no less important 

Again,nobody said your opinion is less important,why do you keep insisting on it?And your comparison is ilogical,there are good reasons for Council not believing Shepard.

[crimzontearz]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I just wonder why all the people who don't want anyone to die aren't off playing, I don't know, farmville or something. Why do you expect to play a war game--and not just war, but war with a species almost infinitely more capable than yourself--and not lose people?

different tastes?

different sense of worth?

why don't you go play Halo Reach or Red Dead Redemption if you want a downer ending when I want  my story to have a perfect ending?

Wait..if choice is given we do not have to play different games because we can choose the outcomes and craft them to our desires!

So, planets are acceptable, but squadmates aren't? Everything should be on the table, even your squadmates, who are spearheading the entire assault on the Reapers. Not just their minions, the actual Reapers... on the front lines.

yup...that's how my tastes run..yours might be different....hence why the best way to handle this is being given CHOICE

What if my tastes were to join Seran? Maybe I wanted to join the Reapers? Those are my tastes, yours may run different. It's a choice!

See, when telling a story, you just have to accept that you can't have everything as a choice. There are things that are... enivitable, and we have to deal with it.

right, the story needs to move in a certain direction (joining the reapers is not an option)

this is on an ENTIRELY different level than choosing squadmate deaths for instance

[Golden Owl]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Because it's a war story and not a 10 year old kid's game/book/movie.

Oh. Then Mass Effect 3 is losing by default.

Because I doubt they could do something like this and get away with it.

By the way. People have already died by the millions across the galaxy. If that's not enough to still your warmongering, you have issues.

Wow! My stomach is turning now...God forbid... NO!....BW definitely won't go something like that.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 31 août 2011 - 01:48 .

[GreenDragon37]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Bioware can't write for sh*t, so I doubt that anything will be emotional.

Bioware should get some of the writers from Gears of War.

The first time I played GoW2, I really felt for Dom when he was forced to kill Maria. Tough stuff.

[nitefyre410]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I just wonder why all the people who don't want anyone to die aren't off playing, I don't know, farmville or something. Why do you expect to play a war game--and not just war, but war with a species almost infinitely more capable than yourself--and not lose people?

different tastes?

different sense of worth?

why don't you go play Halo Reach or Red Dead Redemption if you want a downer ending when I want  my story to have a perfect ending?

Wait..if choice is given we do not have to play different games because we can choose the outcomes and craft them to our desires!

Eventually that has to end. I personally want to join the Reapers. Why do I have to fight them? This is a game with choice, d*mmit! Make it happen Bioware!

I'm joking there. But you can't micromanage everything. In fact, governing the deaths of everyone makes it seem more difficult to role-play--you're metagaming to get the death, or to not get the death.

And I really don't want another SM style. That was painful. As I've said perhaps half an dozen times on these forums, the only person I lost on my first playthrough was Mordin, and that because I didn't know about the magical points system for who survived.

 


and that  is where  Bioware has backed themselves in the corner  with this mode of the story telling .While  great we are starting to see some of the pitfalls.    You right it has to end somewhere  but where -  making  death mandatory  squadmate deaths and LI  is going    ****** alot people off especial in a game series  built on choice.  At the same time you lose being able at add some emotional impact to the story because the  MC is driven to react but how the  player  wants the MC react.  

Can you imagine the "Outrage" if a renegade Shepard player who was  Jerk towards Liara for all 3 three games is not forced to choose between nothing but emotional reactions  for a shepard that s/he created that did not care about Liara at all.... It would be the apocolypse.

[GreenDragon37]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Because it's a war story and not a 10 year old kid's game/book/movie.

Oh. Then Mass Effect 3 is losing by default.

Because I doubt they could do something like this and get away with it.

By the way. People have already died by the millions across the galaxy. If that's not enough to still your warmongering, you have issues.

Millions that I never see or care about as much as those I do care about. And watch who you are calling "warmonger".

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 31 août 2011 - 01:50 .

[Ghost Warrior]

GreenDragon37 wrote...


What if my tastes were to join Saren? Maybe I wanted to join the Reapers? Those are my tastes, yours may run different. It's a choice!

See, when telling a story, you just have to accept that you can't have everything as a choice. There are things that are... enivitable, and we have to deal with it.

I like this human. He understands!

[Golden Owl]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Bioware can't write for sh*t, so I doubt that anything will be emotional.

Bioware should get some of the writers from Gears of War.

If the GoW writers had done ME, then I wouldn't be playing ME....No thanks.

[TheOptimist]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Because Shep is Human, he/she has flaws. As do his/her squadmates. The greatest threat that the galaxy has ever faced is no-longer distant... it's here, right now, in a mostly un-prepared galaxy. From the sounds of everything, Shep's squad will be heading right into the thick of the Reaper invasion points. I think people realize that now, Shep can't save everyone on his team, not while the Reapers are here and throwing everything they can at them.

Again, you just say Shep can't, why not?  What's stopping Shepard?  Shepard is a supreme badass with a squad of almost as awesome badasses.  They have survived ridiculous injuries and in Sheps case death itself.  There is no good reason why Shep should be forced to lose squadmates.  If a 3/4 destroyed home planet isn't an emotional impact, what is?

[Ghost Warrior]

crimzontearz wrote...


right, the story needs to move in a certain direction (joining the reapers is not an option)

this is on an ENTIRELY different level than choosing squadmate deaths for instance

Well who knows? Maybe it will affect the direction of the game.

[crimzontearz]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

it makes sense for the council to BELIEVE shepard after sovereign nearly violated them rectally....yet they do not....

it's not a matter of "sense" it's a matter of "satisfaction" in this case. MY satisfaction is muchly different than yours but no less important 

Again,nobody said your opinion is less important,why do you keep insisting on it?And your comparison is ilogical,there are good reasons for Council not believing Shepard.

because taking away the choice of having a perfect ending simply because you believe that with it the game is less worthy implies my opinion is less than yours in importance and YOUR idea of a satisfying ending is "better" and will be the "ceiling" of "good" endings thus excluding mine (or someone else's)

Bioware will gice you the toold to tell your story the way you want it.....use them. If by any chance they DO allow you to have a perfect ending you will be free not to choose it

everyone wins

[Lunatic LK47]

Golden Owl wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Bioware can't write for sh*t, so I doubt that anything will be emotional.

Bioware should get some of the writers from Gears of War.

If the GoW writers had done ME, then I wouldn't be playing ME....No thanks.

This human understands. Gears of War couldn't tell a proper story out of its ass, and it required spin-off novels to get basic level exposition.

[TheOptimist]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I just wonder why all the people who don't want anyone to die aren't off playing, I don't know, farmville or something. Why do you expect to play a war game--and not just war, but war with a species almost infinitely more capable than yourself--and not lose people?

Again, we already lost a **** ton of people.  Rooting for more death just for the sake of your misplaced sense of drama is just ludicrous.  I could say the samething to you folks, want mass death and high drama? Go play LA Noire or GTA.  This is a story about a hero, not about someone who wasn't quite good enough.

A **** ton of people that you never actually saw or talked to. Even heros have faults. Even heros lose sometimes. Look at the Dark Knight.

You know why I've watched Iron Man 2 a bunch of times and the Dark Knight just once? Yeah.  

[nitefyre410]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Because it's a war story and not a 10 year old kid's game/book/movie.

Oh. Then Mass Effect 3 is losing by default.

Because I doubt they could do something like this and get away with it.

By the way. People have already died by the millions across the galaxy. If that's not enough to still your warmongering, you have issues.

 

No thats not going to cut it  -  if you going do  a "kill em all"   ending you have to "kill em All" as  the entire  universe  all...  like in the Space  Runaway Ideon    BTW   I don't not want this type of ending for Mass Effect...