896 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


because taking away the choice of having a perfect ending simply because you believe that with it the game is less worthy implies my opinion is less than yours in importance and YOUR idea of a satisfying ending is "better" and will be the "ceiling" of "good" endings thus excluding mine (or someone else's)

Then because giving the choice of having a perfect ending simply because you believe that without it the game is less worthy implies my opinion is less than yours in importance and YOUR idea of a satisfying ending is "better" and will be the "ceiling" of "good" endings thus ignoring my (or someone else's) view of the best ending.      See how it works?

Bioware will gice you the toold to tell your story the way you want it.....use them. If by any chance they DO allow you to have a perfect ending you will be free not to choose it

everyone wins

You still don't get the point,do you? I don't want to intentionally fail. I want to be able to end the game with certain losses,knowing I did the best I could.

no because you STILL have the choice to get the ending the way you want by losing people

you think you lost people  in the suicide mission JUST because you made crappy choices intentionally? there were plenty of people who lost Tali  or Mordin without trying. People thought Miranda could have been a good Biotic specialist, People believed Thane could have done the Vents fine because of what he is. (Yes some people sent Grunt through there........that was kinda dumb). Some choices did make sense but they did not turn out to be "right". People believed Zaeed would have made a GREAT team leader since he lead the freaking blue suns (you know....war stories apart)...I could go on

the point is you were not intentially failing you, with hindisght, could have chosen the outcome of the scene WITHOUT making your chepard look like an idiot

[GreenDragon37]

TheOptimist wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

3/4s of a planet of people that you don't know. It's easy to just kill the people on Earth and brush it off.

Uh, no.  No it is not.  Or atleast it shouldn't be...

Heck, many Sheps probably aren't even from Earth, and other couldn't care less if Earth burns (like those out in the Terminus, or even those in these forums).

 
And you think squadmate death will matter to those people...why?  Hell, there are people on these forums who advocate betraying civilization to the Reapers, including all your squadmates.  There is a damn guide to how to kill the maximum number of squaddies for giggles. 

And while Shep may be a badass, he/she isn't infalliale, he/she does lose people. Elysium, Akuze, Torfan.

Yep, my Shep lost people on Elysium.  But Shep saved the planet and beat the invasion.  We don't know much about what happened on Elysium, other than Shepard held off the Blitz nearly single handed at one point. It would be interesting to see some DLC on that at some point.

- It's easy to have people die on Earth and "brush" it off when it's no-one you personally know. Do you try to save everyone who dies in the US today? And do you care about them as much as someone you know and has impacted you in real life? It's easier to care about someone you know, than "that guy that died on Elysium".

- And depending on the squadmate, yes, it does matter. Which also means that people won't be afraid to sacrifice X if Y can die. I'm sure many people would sacrifice Jacob or Miranda if Tali or Garrus can live in their place.

- Yes, it would be a good idea to have Profile DLC.

[Ghost Warrior]

crimzontearz wrote...


no because you STILL have the choice to get the ending the way you want by losing people

you think you lost people  in the suicide mission JUST because you made crappy choices intentionally? there were plenty of people who lost Tali  or Mordin without trying. People thought Miranda could have been a good Biotic specialist, People believed Thane could have done the Vents fine because of what he is. (Yes some people sent Grunt through there........that was kinda dumb). Some choices did make sense but they did not turn out to be "right". People believed Zaeed would have made a GREAT team leader since he lead the freaking blue suns (you know....war stories apart)...I could go on

the point is you were not intentially failing you, with hindisght, could have chosen the outcome of the scene WITHOUT making your chepard look like an idiot

It may be true for the first playthrough? After that?

EDIT: And maybe I want an achievement for the best outcome,but don't it to be perfect.

Modifié par Ghost Warrior, 31 août 2011 - 02:17 .

[Aggie Punbot]

One of the things I love about ME2 is that it gives you the option of a happy ending or not. The people who want everyone to die can do so and the people who want people to live can also do so. I don't think forcing everyone to submit to a doom-and-gloom or sunshine-and-roses ending is a good idea, but that's just me.

[Someone With Mass]

Undertone wrote...

People that have nothing to do with me directly. Just as much as you don't give a **** with what happens in the Africa let's say or this random guy who had a car accident. Statistics babe. It's a little different though when someone you know dies right? So don't play dumb.

I might have issues  but at least I'm not some snot-nosed, soft fool that has never had any kind of challenge in life and hence desires for bunnies and rainbows.

I'm never the one to actually argue that people should have less choice in favor of something that I want or support. It's buzzing trolls like you (and a few others) however that are incomprehensible of understanding someone else's opinion and where they come from. 

Excuse me because I don't see a point in mandatory deaths, because that apparently makes a moment so "special" or something, when in fact, it achieves and progresses absolutely nothing.

Oh no, I guess that makes me a softy and not an insecure "badass" like yourself.

[crimzontearz]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


no because you STILL have the choice to get the ending the way you want by losing people

you think you lost people  in the suicide mission JUST because you made crappy choices intentionally? there were plenty of people who lost Tali  or Mordin without trying. People thought Miranda could have been a good Biotic specialist, People believed Thane could have done the Vents fine because of what he is. (Yes some people sent Grunt through there........that was kinda dumb). Some choices did make sense but they did not turn out to be "right". People believed Zaeed would have made a GREAT team leader since he lead the freaking blue suns (you know....war stories apart)...I could go on

the point is you were not intentially failing you, with hindisght, could have chosen the outcome of the scene WITHOUT making your chepard look like an idiot

It may be true for the first playthrough? After that?

EDIT: And maybe I want an achievement for the best outcome,but don't it to be perfect.

after that is meta gaming..you still choose your ending and craft it the way you want.......simple as that

and I DO

[nitefyre410]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


Right but what  Crimizon and I to something extent are trying to say is that If they   give you that and take away the choice and option for the perfect ending - its betraying the core  premise of the game design.  The game design being  is put the player in the would where they can have some major impact on the world and characters around them.

its not about having character death or not.

No it's not. Remember ME1 ending: you had to choose between the Alliance fleet and Destiny Ascension. You weren't able to save both.
So let's say that during the ME3,game leads to Garrus being on Palaven and Tali on Flotila (it's actually possible,they said there wil be such thing as temporary squadmates). And just like in ME1,you have to choose which one to save. Would that be a betrayal of the game's premise or taking away the choice? - No.

 

The choice at the end of ME 1 not really  emotional that was more a Tatical  choice -  this whole discussion was about Emotional Death, Emotional  Impactful  death.   That could work for more minor characters like   Samara,  Kasumi, Zaeed  but that will not fly with two  series main stays like  Tali and  Garrus.  Who have been in the game sense ME 1  and will be if you did not kill em off in ME 2.  Yes you are right  it would be choice and I would be okay with  but it will would not be the  kind emotional  impacting that death that  OP wanted.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 31 août 2011 - 02:21 .

[crimzontearz]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Bioware can't write for sh*t, so I doubt that anything will be emotional.

Bioware should get some of the writers from Gears of War.

If the GoW writers had done ME, then I wouldn't be playing ME....No thanks.

This human understands. Gears of War couldn't tell a proper story out of its ass, and it required spin-off novels to get basic level exposition.

I was only talking about one scene.

both "player punch" scenes (ty and maria) held no punch at all really........

[TheOptimist]

Undertone wrote...

People that have nothing to do with me directly. Just as much as you don't give a **** with what happens in the Africa let's say or this random guy who had a car accident. Statistics babe. 

Don't I?  Why do people give money to hospitals, the Red Cross, or the Peace Corps?  Because they don't care?

It's a little different though when someone you know dies right? So don't play dumb.

Yep, it's different, and I expect people Shepard knows, or meets, will not make it.  But my squad?  A whole squad of people who are already hardcore survivors? There's no reason they shouldn't survive.

I might have issues  but at least I'm not some snot-nosed, soft fool that has never had any kind of challenge in life and hence desires for bunnies and rainbows.

Yes, that is why I crave to be able to save everyone in my squad.  Because I hate challenges.

[Someone With Mass]

Undertone wrote...
Yay let's give plot armor to anyone we like

Yay, let's give them something that's actually worth watching, instead of a disgustingly cliche death scene that will achieve absolutely nothing! 

[Lunatic LK47]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...


I was only talking about one scene.

One scene where I knew next to nothing about the main cast. Hard to get emotionally invested with the Gears if I didn't know jack **** about them, expecting us to know the lore without the devs properly telling us. Last time I checked, Gears 2 had a comic book writer penning the script, and that is a bad sign for telling us that the guys at Epic did not really put an iota of thought into writing the story.

[Ghost Warrior]

nitefyre410 wrote...



The choice at the end of ME 1 not really  emotional that was more a Tatical  choice -  this whole discussion was about Emotional Death, Emotional  Impactful  death.   That could work for more minor characters like   Samara,  Kasumi, Zaeed  but that will not fly with two  series main stays like  Tali and  Garrus.  Who have been in the game sense ME 1  and will be if you did not kill em off in ME 2.  Yes you are right  it would be choice and I would be okay with not but it will would not be the  kind emotional  impacting that death that  OP wanted.

Don't know about that last sentence. Imagining talking to Garrus over the radio,saying someting like "I had to make a choice" and than Garrus makes some touchy comment and there goes a sequence where he gets killed while making his last heroic stand...could be pretty emotional IMO.

Modifié par Ghost Warrior, 31 août 2011 - 02:24 .

[nitefyre410]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...



The choice at the end of ME 1 not really  emotional that was more a Tatical  choice -  this whole discussion was about Emotional Death, Emotional  Impactful  death.   That could work for more minor characters like   Samara,  Kasumi, Zaeed  but that will not fly with two  series main stays like  Tali and  Garrus.  Who have been in the game sense ME 1  and will be if you did not kill em off in ME 2.  Yes you are right  it would be choice and I would be okay with not but it will would not be the  kind emotional  impacting that death that  OP wanted.

Don't know about that last sentence. Imagining talking to Garrus over the radio,saying someting like "I had to make a choice" and than Garrus makes some touchy comment and there goes a sequence where he gets killed while making his last heroic stand...could be pretty emotional IMO.

 

Not if your a player who is playing Shepard who does not give  Flip about Garrus - which is really what  all this is going to boil down to in the end.   So that  would work for you shepard  who friends with  Garrus.    All Shepards  not  being played like yours or mine  Bioware can't write it like that....

Anyway the whole  "Sacrifce" Thing is marketing talke I tend not to put much stock in it.  

Same with Mass Effect being a Xbox 360  exclusive.... <_<

Modifié par nitefyre410, 31 août 2011 - 02:32 .

[crimzontearz]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

both "player punch" scenes (ty and maria) held no punch at all really........

You mean this? I thought that this was one of the most emotional scenes in video game history and I normally don't feel emotions when playing video games, other than frustration.

yeah that's one of the two


nothing compared to the final sequences from ME1 (tho evoking different emotions)

[Gorosaur]

TS2Aggie wrote...

One of the things I love about ME2 is that it gives you the option of a happy ending or not. The people who want everyone to die can do so and the people who want people to live can also do so.

You seem I'm fine with this, but I want to see this implemented where the deaths actual mean something.

[Someone With Mass]

TheOptimist wrote...

Undertone wrote...

People that have nothing to do with me directly. Just as much as you don't give a **** with what happens in the Africa let's say or this random guy who had a car accident. Statistics babe. 

Don't I?  Why do people give money to hospitals, the Red Cross, or the Peace Corps?  Because they don't care?

It's a little different though when someone you know dies right? So don't play dumb.

Yep, it's different, and I expect people Shepard knows, or meets, will not make it.  But my squad?  A whole squad of people who are already hardcore survivors? There's no reason they shouldn't survive.

I might have issues  but at least I'm not some snot-nosed, soft fool that has never had any kind of challenge in life and hence desires for bunnies and rainbows.

Yes, that is why I crave to be able to save everyone in my squad.  Because I hate challenges.

Well said. 

Also, just to point it out, there's a vast difference between someone I know in real life dying and a video game character I know dying.

[TheOptimist]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

- It's easy to have people die on Earth and "brush" it off when it's no-one you personally know. Do you try to save everyone who dies in the US today? And do you care about them as much as someone you know and has impacted you in real life? It's easier to care about someone you know, than "that guy that died on Elysium".

Did you cry on Sept. 11th?  I did, even if I knew no one in those buildings or on those planes personally.  Hell, at the time I'd never even been to NY. 

- And depending on the squadmate, yes, it does matter. Which also means that people won't be afraid to sacrifice X if Y can die. I'm sure many people would sacrifice Jacob or Miranda if Tali or Garrus can live in their place.

Again, why is it emotional if you don't care about the squadmate you're sacrificing?  God knows how often I've read here that Kaidan or Ashley was the one sacrificed because they didn't matter.

Modifié par TheOptimist, 31 août 2011 - 02:29 .

[TheOptimist]

Double post

Modifié par TheOptimist, 31 août 2011 - 02:29 .

[crimzontearz]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

both "player punch" scenes (ty and maria) held no punch at all really........

You mean this? I thought that this was one of the most emotional scenes in video game history and I normally don't feel emotions when playing video games, other than frustration.

yeah that's one of the two


nothing compared to the final sequences from ME1 (tho evoking different emotions)

The best scene in ME1, was Saren shooting himself, and even that was laughable if you ask me.

I am not

[GreenDragon37]

[quote]TheOptimist wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

- It's easy to have people die on Earth and "brush" it off when it's no-one you personally know. Do you try to save everyone who dies in the US today? And do you care about them as much as someone you know and has impacted you in real life? It's easier to care about someone you know, than "that guy that died on Elysium".[/quote]

Did you cry on Sept. 11th?  I did, even if I knew no one in those buildings or on those planes personally.  Hell, at the time I'd never even been to NY. 

- And depending on the squadmate, yes, it does matter. Which also means that people won't be afraid to sacrifice X if Y can die. I'm sure many people would sacrifice Jacob or Miranda if Tali or Garrus can live in their place.

Again, why is it emotional if you don't care about the squadmate you're sacrificing?  God knows how often I've read here that Kaidan or Ashley was the one sacrificed because they didn't matter.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Do you cry for the millions of people starving in the world? Do you cry for those living in poor neighborhoods? Do you cry for the people under brutal regimes and at the mercy of ruthless rebels in Africa?

It's easier to care when it's closer to home.

[Someone With Mass]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

The best scene in ME1, was Saren shooting himself, and even that was laughable if you ask me.

Saren: The Reapers will return!

Shepard: You can fight this!

Saren: Maybe I can...

Shepard: You can still redeem yourself!

Saren: Goodbye Shepard. Thank you. *Saren shoots himself in the head and falls down*

Shepard: Make sure he's dead. *squadmate pops Saren in the head*

So much for tension.