896 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, having a character like Grunt die to the average mercs would shatter my suspension of disbelief harder than anything else.

Eh? Is Grunt immune to merc bulltets? Or sniper rifles. Or merc gunships?
How the hell does a character being killed by supwerior firewpoer break suspension of disbelief?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Undertone wrote...

You must be kidding me - I can bet you 99% have Garrus, Tali and Liara surviving. (well no surprises about Liara)

I will take that bet!

[Lotion Soronarr]

MarauderESP wrote...

sheperdhy wrote...

PLEASE BIOWARE GIVE THE PARAGON ENDING FOR ME3 WHERE SHEPEARD SACRIFICES HIMSELF AS A LAST DITCH EFFORT TO SAVE HUMANITY. I REALLY FEEL THAT SHEPARD MUST PERMANENTLY DIE FOR THE PARAGON ENDING THEREBY EFFECTIVELY ENDING HIS STORY EVEN FOR THE RENEGADE OPTION

1- well ... u know.... if that happens i and many others will think  why the hell i spent so much time since 2007 building  "my Shp history" just to die at the end? :blink: , that will mean ok fine, take the dvd put in the case and forget its existence, then i will think ME1 like a stand alone game , and forget the rest....

2- ok ok .... killing the protagonist TWICE...... aaaah sureeeee!! <_<

1) Everyone dies. All good thing must come to an end eventually. This is inevitable. Yet one can make hte end..glorious.

2) Don't remind me of the stupid ME2 story start! Aaah...ze migrane!

[GodWood]

[quote]TheOptimist wrote...
[quote]I personally would love if Jack (my Shep's LI) died a dramatic heart-breaking death however if I simply choose to have it happen it'd pretty much take all the emotional impact out of it.

These types of things need to be a surprise.[/quote]And there in lies the rub.  You want something to happen.  I do not want said thing to happen.  The only compromise is choice.  You choose your way, I choose mine.  It is what the Mass Effect franchise is built on.[/quote]Christ it's like talking to a wall.

By making it a choice it takes any of the fun/drama/impact out of the whole thing.
Selecting a "I would like to have Master Li to betray me" option [Jade Empire] does not have the same impact as the plot twist happening outside of the player's control.

[quote]



[quote]I have never said no one will die.  I fully expect people Shepard knows and meets not to be there at the end.  But the squad?  The squad is full of awesome people who are ridiculously good at what they do.[/quote]And awesome people die.[/quote]Everyone dies.  There's no reason they have to die now.[/quote]Drama, emotional impact, depth, realism, tug on the player's heartstrings.

That kind of stuff.

Sure those kids in 'Boy in the Striped Pyjamas' didn't need to die but their deaths did have a bigger impact on the audience then if they'd just lived.

Modifié par GodWood, 31 août 2011 - 01:50 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheOptimist wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

Ugh. At the end of the day it would be a childish story if all squad members were so awesome that they could survive a mission to stop armageddon as it is happening. It should be completely impossible no matter how hard you try. Especially since you'll be the first ever to stop the Reapers - the first in the tens of millions of years (at least) that the Reapers have been around for. The idea that the first team of people ever to stop the Reapers getting a Perfect is completely and utterly lame.

So don't have that happen.  No one is making you get this option.  Some of us would just like to see it.

The very existence of that option undermines the sacrifice adn drama.

[Whatever42]

Undertone wrote...

You must be kidding me - I can bet you 99% have Garrus, Tali and Liara surviving. (well no surprises about Liara)

I don't know, lots of Tali haters out there. Still, do you just skip the dramatic moment if Tali died in ME2?

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheOptimist wrote...
I have never said no one will die.  I fully expect people Shepard knows and meets not to be there at the end.  But the squad?  The squad is full of awesome people who are ridiculously good at what they do.  And if you do everything just right, I would think there's a chance they'd all still be there when the dust settles.

I follow your awesome and raise it with orbital bobardment.
Tell me, does the squads AWESOME skills save them from the nuclear armageddon dropping on their heads?

[marstor05]

Tali not surviving would be a bummer. You spend 3 years wondering what the feck she looks like under her visor, then BAM!!!!!!!

[nitefyre410]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

Ugh. At the end of the day it would be a childish story if all squad members were so awesome that they could survive a mission to stop armageddon as it is happening. It should be completely impossible no matter how hard you try. Especially since you'll be the first ever to stop the Reapers - the first in the tens of millions of years (at least) that the Reapers have been around for. The idea that the first team of people ever to stop the Reapers getting a Perfect is completely and utterly lame.

So don't have that happen.  No one is making you get this option.  Some of us would just like to see it.

The very existence of that option undermines the sacrifice adn drama.

 

Nor does killing of a bunch of characters create a sense of drama when there was none there to start with or the player can choose how the MC  reacts to death of  character.  

   

[GodWood]

AwesomeName

AwesomePost

[marstor05]

PLenty of emotion throughout the game would be brilliant.  This is the end of the universe you know.




"You can't turn away from death simply because you're afraid of what might happen without you. That's not enough! You're not embracing life. You're fleeing death. And so you're caught in between, unable to go forward or backward. Your friends need what you can be when you are no longer afraid, when you know who you are and why you are and what you want, when you are no longer looking for reasons to live, but can simply be."

 -- Lorien to Sheridan in Babylon 5:"Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?"

Modifié par marstor05, 31 août 2011 - 01:55 .

[Whatever42]

Funny that you quoted B5, where all the main characters live at the end. Well, at least at the end of the conflict with the Shadows.

[LadyJaneGrey]

marstor05 wrote...

Tali not surviving would be a bummer. You spend 3 years wondering what the feck she looks like under her visor, then BAM!!!!!!!

Or, if Bioware is feeling particularly cruel, the only way to see Tali's face IS for her to die.

[TheOptimist]

GodWood wrote...

Christ it's like talking to a wall.

By making it a choice it takes any of the fun/drama/impact out of the whole thing.
Selecting a "I would like to have Master Li to betray me" option [Jade Empire] does not have the same impact as the plot twist happening outside of the player's control.

Funny you bring up Jade Empire, as not a single member of your permanent Squad has to die to achieve victory.
Plot twists, and the death of characters and squadmates, are not the same thing.  And again, my point was that choice is the only reasonable compromise.  I'd be just as happy if we didn't have to worry that one of our choices would result in a squadmates or LI's death, but some people really want that to happen, and hopefully bioware can give them that option.

Drama, emotional impact, depth, realism, tug on the player's heartstrings.

That kind of stuff.

Sure those kids in 'Boy in the Striped Pyjamas' didn't need to die but there deaths did have a bigger impact on the audience then if they'd just lived.

Main Character and squadmate death is not required for any of the things you mentioned.  I will admit never having seen or read 'Boy in the Striped Pyjamas' but I would venture to guess that it is drearily depressing. A simple check of IMDB tells me I am correct.  I do not play video games, read books, or watch movies to be depressed, I turn on the news. 

Modifié par TheOptimist, 31 août 2011 - 01:59 .

[Someone With Mass]

Because Mass Effect is so realistic that we must have realistic odds when it comes to battles.

[nitefyre410]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Because Mass Effect is so realistic that we must have realistic odds when it comes to battles.

 


Gaint, Talking,  Robtic, Space, Squids   need I say more  

Modifié par nitefyre410, 31 août 2011 - 02:14 .

[TheOptimist]

AwesomeName wrote...

Well tough, you can't have every event in the ME universe as an optional thing.  You can only control the way Shepard acts; you can't have godlike control over your squadmates' mortality.  You can't expect your team to be so Awesome that, despite the countless numbers who have tried before you to stop the Reapers, your best just happens to be good enough to win a Perfect (especially when you're the first to ever do it). 

Watching half the galaxy get destroyed is not 'Perfect'.  Stopping the Reapers before they ever got here would have been perfect, but alas, Shepard is only human.

In many situations in life you can prevent bad things from happening if you try hard enough - but your best isn't good enough to prevent everything life throws at you.  It's unrealistic and this is one area where you need some element of realism to emotionally ground you in a fictional universe filled to the brim with unrealistic and fantastical things.

Once again, Shepard has lost 23 people under his/her command, no matter what you did.  That's plenty and more than enough.  We already know you will see people drop around you.  Also, I love how character survival is the breaking point for suspension of disbelief for so many people here.  "Shepard back from the dead after getting spaced, possibly burned and then frozen?  Meh, I can dig it.  Squad survives? NO, EVERYTHING IS RUINED."

Given the situation in ME3, it just seems absurd that they'd give you an option to be amazing enough that you'd be able to save your entire squad.  It's juvenile and it's completely unbelievable that one could just "choose" for all your squaddies to survive.  Being able to choose to try to save them?  Now that's different and something I fully support..  Shepard is a human soldier and probably the best hero the galaxy has, but for god's sake, he's not a cheesy caricature of a Totally Awesome Dude.

Well, I could advocate that squaddies survive by writer fiat, as the opposite seems to be so popular around here, but I'd really like to see people atleast have the option to get the depressing story they so desperately want, if only because there'd be slightly less whining afterward. I really don't get why it strains believability to think the people in Shepard's squad will make it through, it's not like I'm advocating no one at all die in a galactic war. 

[Chewin]

AwesomeName wrote...
(...)  Being able to choose to try to save them?  Now that's different and something I fully support..  Shepard is a human soldier and probably the best hero the galaxy has, but for god's sake, he's not a cheesy caricature of a Totally Awesome Dude.

Yup. Agreed.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Eh? Is Grunt immune to merc bulltets? Or sniper rifles. Or merc gunships?
How the hell does a character being killed by supwerior firewpoer break suspension of disbelief?

Shepard can shoot Grunt at point blank three times in the face and it merely tickles him. Gunships? We've knocked those out of the sky before.

I'm talking about a small squad of mercs killing Grunt or Thane or Samara. That would be pretty unbelievable.

[TheOptimist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
I have never said no one will die.  I fully expect people Shepard knows and meets not to be there at the end.  But the squad?  The squad is full of awesome people who are ridiculously good at what they do.  And if you do everything just right, I would think there's a chance they'd all still be there when the dust settles.

I follow your awesome and raise it with orbital bobardment.
Tell me, does the squads AWESOME skills save them from the nuclear armageddon dropping on their heads?

Yes, because they escape in a shuttle...in the nick of time!

Modifié par TheOptimist, 31 août 2011 - 02:18 .

[Ghost Warrior]

Chewin3 wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...
(...)  Being able to choose to try to save them?  Now that's different and something I fully support..  Shepard is a human soldier and probably the best hero the galaxy has, but for god's sake, he's not a cheesy caricature of a Totally Awesome Dude.

Yup. Agreed.

+1

[Someone With Mass]

TheOptimist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
I have never said no one will die.  I fully expect people Shepard knows and meets not to be there at the end.  But the squad?  The squad is full of awesome people who are ridiculously good at what they do.  And if you do everything just right, I would think there's a chance they'd all still be there when the dust settles.

I follow your awesome and raise it with orbital bobardment.
Tell me, does the squads AWESOME skills save them from the nuclear armageddon dropping on their heads?

Yes, because they escape...in the nick of time!

For that matter, who would be doing the bombardment? The Reapers? On a world full of organics they want to harvest? I don't think so. Not to mention that the planet could be of future use for them.

One of our own? I think they would warn us first.