896 réponses à ce sujet

[JGDD]

Someone With Mass wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
I have never said no one will die.  I fully expect people Shepard knows and meets not to be there at the end.  But the squad?  The squad is full of awesome people who are ridiculously good at what they do.  And if you do everything just right, I would think there's a chance they'd all still be there when the dust settles.

I follow your awesome and raise it with orbital bobardment.
Tell me, does the squads AWESOME skills save them from the nuclear armageddon dropping on their heads?

Yes, because they escape...in the nick of time!

For that matter, who would be doing the bombardment? The Reapers? On a world full of organics they want to harvest? I don't think so. Not to mention that the planet could be of future use for them.

One of our own? I think they would warn us first.

Why wouldn't the reapers use orbital strikes? Nukes are silly, yes. But the mass cannons they wield are a very real threat and have no after glow effects. Just big craters. Tactical strikes on key locations doesn't wipe out all the resources of a planet either. That said...it's clear your team makes it off Earth where, as far as we know, is the only place shown to be under direct attack.

[King Minos]

I expect the squad members are able to all come out alive, important non squad members however can die (Chakwas, Udina, Anderson, entire ME2 squad members except Tali and Garrus, the council etc etc). I also expect another virmire type scene, also the way you prepare your squad members also affect their life expectancy. Also the same treatment to your squad as Kirrahe's squad, he only makes it out alive if you destroy or sabotage certain targets.

[King Minos]

There must be a weapon similiar to the seeker swarms for the collectors, since the Reapers created the collectors surely they must of weaponised it? A orbital seeker strike? Or a gas that can stun a population of a city?

[FFinfinity1]

My LI died on the suicide mission and i expected a more emotional death sequence but shepard just brushed it off that should be fixed

[King Minos]

Like I said, they could be handled like Kirrahe's squad if you read my post, destroying certain targets could save that small squad, miss one or two and some can die. Proper equipment can improve their life expectancy, if not fully prepared, their expectancy drops. A maths equation is proberly involved like all RPGs to determine damage output. but instead, life expectancy. Also I fully expect a virmire scene.

[King Minos]

Squad feuds could also affect life expectancy, send a small squad to do one objective while yu and two others do another, the other squad could bump into Samara and she might disagree with that squads morals and kill them, or LI bump into another LI and cause a problem. Many many factors could affect squad expectancy, but I doubt Bioware would go that deep.

[TheOptimist]

jreezy wrote...

King Minos wrote...

I expect the squad members are able to all come out alive, important non squad members however can die (Chakwas, Udina, Anderson, entire ME2 squad members except Tali and Garrus, the council etc etc). I also expect another virmire type scene, also the way you prepare your squad members also affect their life expectancy. Also the same treatment to your squad as Kirrahe's squad, he only makes it out alive if you destroy or sabotage certain targets.

No squad member should be untouchable no matter who they are.

By the same token, no squad member should be unshakably condemned.

[Golden Owl]

Repost:

Here in lays the problem....how would these deaths be decided, as to who dies, who lives, etc...would it be from past and present decisions Shep makes? Will BW be throwing all the squaddies, etc...names in a hat and who gets drawn dies? Find fav squad members, LI's, etc... and make player choose A or B?

Modifié par Golden Owl, 31 août 2011 - 03:11 .

[Izhalezan]

AwesomeName wrote...

Sure, half the galaxy getting destroyed isn't perfect, but from a storytelling standpoint your entire squad surviving would, in itself, feel like a Perfect.  And utterly absurd given what you're up against and where you and your squad are going to be during the whole thing.

"So, Shepard, you and your team are the first people to ever successfully beat the Reapers..."
"Yup"
"Hundreds of races before you tried and failed..."
"Yup"
"That's amazing.  And not a single member of your squad died?"
"Nope."
"That's a little hard to believe... I mean, HUNDREDS of races tried and failed... yet you and your squad come along, fight them on the front lines, even deep within enemy territory, and not only beat them, but suffer no casualties on your squad..."
"Yup"
"What exactly did you and your team do that every race before you didn't?"
"Well, basically I have this thing called the Rule of Cool; works a charm :)"
"Right... How come the people safely on your ship were more likely to die than your squadmates with you on the ground...?"
"It only works when you're in proximity to me.  Oh look.  My space motorbike has arrived and I must blow this joint." *Tweaks moustache and drives off whilst performing totally awesome guitar solo*

You're missing a important fact here.... of all those before us who got harvested, we're the first to have had a real chance to fight back, EVERY race before us was taken out by the element of surprise followed by slowly but surely wiping out isolated systems. They all got DOMINATED, or pwned, take your pick.

This time around the Reapers have been denied their greatest assets and we've been able to prepare, it isn't crazy to think that Shepards squad, who aren't red shirts, can live through this. But of course, the battle is more about all races working together, the Normadny isn't gonna bring the old gang back together and just infiltrate Reaper after Reaper and blow up their cores from the inside or something while popping collars, wearing shades and dropping one liners as they do it.

[King Minos]

Golden owl, I will say this again, Bioware should of added a equation that determines a specific squad member or a group life expectancy, like all RPGs, they have equations that determine the damage output of an attack or the chances of a critical strike, something like this but it is very basic and jus an idea of the equation that comes into my mind that determines that specific members fate: Squad member preparing (1-5) times squad member loyalty (1-5) equal both answers added together. Squad member loyalty and preparation times the danger of situation (1-5) equals survivability rate, anything above a certain number survives and anything below goes kaput, obviously equation can be improved with more factors like squad member relationship with another squad member relationship. That way anyone can die but can survive if better prepared.

[King Minos]

It is not biased and any member can die, you also have the power to help improve that squad members survivability.

[cihimi]

[King Minos]

Is that pointed at me? I can't tell if that is supposed to insult me.

[TheOptimist]

AwesomeName wrote...

Sure, half the galaxy getting destroyed isn't perfect, but from a storytelling standpoint your entire squad surviving would, in itself, feel like a Perfect.  And utterly absurd given what you're up against and where you and your squad are going to be during the whole thing.

"So, Shepard, you and your team are the first people to ever successfully beat the Reapers..."
"Yup"
"Hundreds of races before you tried and failed..."
"Yup"
"That's amazing.  And not a single member of your squad died?"
"Nope."
"That's a little hard to believe... I mean, HUNDREDS of races tried and failed... yet you and your squad come along, fight them on the front lines, even deep within enemy territory, and not only beat them, but suffer no casualties on your squad..."
"Yup"
"What exactly did you and your team do that every race before you didn't?"
"Well, basically I have this thing called the Rule of Cool; works a charm :)"
"Right... How come the people safely on your ship were more likely to die than your squadmates with you on the ground...?"
"It only works when you're in proximity to me.  Oh look.  My space motorbike has arrived and I must blow this joint." *Tweaks moustache and drives off whilst performing totally awesome guitar solo*

I would laugh really hard, this conversation would be hilarious.  Though my Shep does not have a 'stache.

UGH.  Even Zap Brannigan is better written than that; he actually fails at his job.

Zap Brannigan's a carricature, he fails by default.  A better comparison would be James T. Kirk, whose main crew, his squad if you will, lives time and again despite facing odds just as bad as Shepards.

Once again, Shepard has lost 23 people under his/her command, no matter what you did.  That's plenty and more than enough.  We already know you will see people drop around you.  Also, I love how character survival is the breaking point for suspension of disbelief for so many people here.  "Shepard back from the dead after getting spaced, possibly burned and then frozen?  Meh, I can dig it.  Squad survives? NO, EVERYTHING IS RUINED."

I really don't see how you can feel encapsulated within a fictional universe full of unbelievable things happening unless you have realism somewhere, in particular the characterisation and the things that happen to the main characters specifically.  I don't know about you, but I feel a hell of a lot worse when someone I know dies, rather than someone who's a complete stranger.  In any case, your squadmates are the ones who fight on the front lines with you; they're blatantly in more danger for the most part.

Again, no one has suggested that people Shepard knows should not die.  It has happened several times in Mass Effect and will doubtless happen several more.  I would simply like to see Shepard's squad with Shepard when the dust settles.  They will be in danger, and the possibility of death I have no problem with.  I simply want the option to make sure that doesn't happen.

Well, I could advocate that squaddies survive by writer fiat, as the opposite seems to be so popular around here, but I'd really like to see people atleast have the option to get the depressing story they so desperately want, if only because there'd be slightly less whining afterward. I really don't get why it strains believability to think the people in Shepard's squad will make it through, it's not like I'm advocating no one at all die in a galactic war. 

It strains believability because they're the ones actually guttsy enough to fight them head on.  And it's not just any enemy they're fighting.  They're fighting a race of machines that have been doing this for tens of millions of years.  The idea that your squadmates could, by virtue of being badass, be immune to death, unlike everyone else in the galaxy, is just plain cliched.  Also, it's hardly depressing if your victory was difficult along the way to get.  If anything it makes it much much better.

I'm not sure why you put so much stock in the Reapers being some kind of uber threat that nothing before or since compares to.  We, humanity, have faced annihlation before the Reapers, and given that this is unlikely to be the last game in the Mass Effect series even if it is the conclusion to Shepard's story, we will face it again afterwards.  More to the point, the sacrifice you speak of has already been made.  We are not attempting to beat the Reapers in the situation every other species has found itself in.  We have been given our chance by the Protheans, who threw us our shot with their races dying breaths. 

As to it being cliched, both sacrifice and survival have been done countless times.  God, look at Halo: Reach, where you get to watch your entire squad get snuffed one by one before finally dying yourself in a hopeless battle.  No thanks.

And difficulty does not equate to character death.  Just because your squad survives doesn't mean it wasn't difficult. 

Modifié par TheOptimist, 31 août 2011 - 03:22 .

[nitefyre410]

TheOptimist wrote...

I'm not sure why you put so much stock in the Reapers being some kind of uber threat that nothing before or since compares to.  We, humanity, have faced annihlation before the Reapers, and given that this is unlikely to be the last game in the Mass Effect series even if it is the conclusion to Shepard's story, we will face it again afterwards.  More to the point, the sacrifice you speak of has already been made.  We are not attempting to beat the Reapers in the situation every other species has found itself in.  We have been given our chance by the Protheans, who threw us our shot with their races dying breaths. 

As to it being cliched, both sacrifice and survival have been done countless times.  God, look at Halo: Reach, where you get to watch your entire squad get snuffed one by one before finally dying yourself in a hopeless battle.  No thanks.

And difficulty does not equate to character death.  Just because your squad survives doesn't mean it wasn't difficult. 

 


But In  Reach Defense  in the context of the Halo Universe  Reach  was a losing batttle  from the start. - it  was the UNSC  Alamo.  I knew tha going in -  Noble team did not die just  for the sake of   - "Oh we have to be mature now lets kill some people" 

[King Minos]

The main character, noble 6 was it? Could of survived if only he just got on that VTOL with Keyes.

[TheOptimist]

nitefyre410 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

I'm not sure why you put so much stock in the Reapers being some kind of uber threat that nothing before or since compares to.  We, humanity, have faced annihlation before the Reapers, and given that this is unlikely to be the last game in the Mass Effect series even if it is the conclusion to Shepard's story, we will face it again afterwards.  More to the point, the sacrifice you speak of has already been made.  We are not attempting to beat the Reapers in the situation every other species has found itself in.  We have been given our chance by the Protheans, who threw us our shot with their races dying breaths. 

As to it being cliched, both sacrifice and survival have been done countless times.  God, look at Halo: Reach, where you get to watch your entire squad get snuffed one by one before finally dying yourself in a hopeless battle.  No thanks.

And difficulty does not equate to character death.  Just because your squad survives doesn't mean it wasn't difficult. 

 


But In  Reach Defense  in the context of the Halo Universe  Reach  was a losing batttle  from the start. - it  was the UNSC  Alamo.  I knew tha going in -  Noble team did not die just  for the sake of   - "Oh we have to be mature now lets kill some people" 

I have a problem with the storyline of the Halo series in general, but we'll leave that.  I was really just using it as an example that dramatic character death is just as cliched as survival.

[Ghost Warrior]

TheOptimist wrote...

As to it being cliched, both sacrifice and survival have been done countless times.  God, look at Halo: Reach, where you get to watch your entire squad get snuffed one by one before finally dying yourself in a hopeless battle.  No thanks.

Wow,I have to play that game. 

Also,nothing is more cliche than happy end where all the good guys survive and the bad guys are destroyed forever.

Modifié par Ghost Warrior, 31 août 2011 - 03:36 .

[nitefyre410]

TheOptimist wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

I'm not sure why you put so much stock in the Reapers being some kind of uber threat that nothing before or since compares to.  We, humanity, have faced annihlation before the Reapers, and given that this is unlikely to be the last game in the Mass Effect series even if it is the conclusion to Shepard's story, we will face it again afterwards.  More to the point, the sacrifice you speak of has already been made.  We are not attempting to beat the Reapers in the situation every other species has found itself in.  We have been given our chance by the Protheans, who threw us our shot with their races dying breaths. 

As to it being cliched, both sacrifice and survival have been done countless times.  God, look at Halo: Reach, where you get to watch your entire squad get snuffed one by one before finally dying yourself in a hopeless battle.  No thanks.

And difficulty does not equate to character death.  Just because your squad survives doesn't mean it wasn't difficult. 

 


But In  Reach Defense  in the context of the Halo Universe  Reach  was a losing batttle  from the start. - it  was the UNSC  Alamo.  I knew tha going in -  Noble team did not die just  for the sake of   - "Oh we have to be mature now lets kill some people" 

I have a problem with the storyline of the Halo series in general, but we'll leave that.  I was really just using it as an example that dramatic character death is just as cliched as survival.

 

This True and does not mean they are bad  it just that they have been done so much - sense humans have been telling stories.

[TheOptimist]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

As to it being cliched, both sacrifice and survival have been done countless times.  God, look at Halo: Reach, where you get to watch your entire squad get snuffed one by one before finally dying yourself in a hopeless battle.  No thanks.

Wow,I have to play that game. 

Also,nothing is more cliche than happy end where all the good guys survive and the bad guys are destroyed forever.

Welcome to it, if that's your cup of tea, don't let me stop you.  And both storytelling tricks are cliche.  The only difference comes in which cliche you want to see.  So I hope they give us the option for both.

[Ghost Warrior]

TheOptimist wrote...


Welcome to it, if that's your cup of tea, don't let me stop you.  And both storytelling tricks are cliche.  The only difference comes in which cliche you want to see.  So I hope they give us the option for both.

You do have a point,but I still want to see Virmire-like choice.

[medcsu]

"Laughs at those who will cry at the end"

[nitefyre410]

Na - I'm just gonna take - One shot for the pain and One drag for the Sorrow and sing me some Liquor Store Blues .  

Modifié par nitefyre410, 31 août 2011 - 03:46 .