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[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...
There's a reason why the death of a MAJOR character is usually a shock.

It can't be a shock if it's predicted. Which 100% of the character deaths in ME3 are, since we all know that some will die somehow. That does not make it a shock in any way. That makes it more like a lottery.

 

[Massadonious1]

Nevermind, don't want to get in to it, and way off topic.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 02 septembre 2011 - 08:35 .

[GodWood]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Just because it has a shock doesn't mean it is any less cliche...try again.

It is a shock because its unexpected.
It's unexpected because it doesn't usually happen.
It doesn't usually happen because the majority of the time the main characters live.
Therefore, because the majority of time the main characters live one could say that it is more of a cliche.

But come on now, we both know you're just being difficult or your in denial.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

GodWood wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Just because it has a shock doesn't mean it is any less cliche...try again.

It is a shock because its unexpected.
It's unexpected because it doesn't usually happen.
It doesn't usually happen because the majority of the time the main characters live.
Therefore, because the majority of time the main characters live one could say that it is more of a cliche.

But come on now, we both know you're just being difficult or your in denial.

I just want you to prove it is "more" cliche, I look forward to a well thought out explanation.



Good day.

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...
It can't be a shock if it's predicted. Which 100% of the character deaths in ME3 are, since we all know that some will die somehow. That does not make it a shock in any way. That makes it more like a lottery.

I'm sorry what?

I can't understand what you're trying to say.

[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...
It is a shock because its unexpected.
It's unexpected because it doesn't usually happen.
It doesn't usually happen because the majority of the time the main characters live.
Therefore, because the majority of time the main characters live one could say that it is more of a cliche.

But come on now, we both know you're just being difficult or your in denial.

Except when it can happen in ME2 to anyone on the team. Even Shepard.

You can literally play ME3 with only two survivors from ME2. If you kill them off too, you've only completed what the suicide mission couldn't.

Which isn't exactly shocking.

[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...
I'm sorry what?

I can't understand what you're trying to say.

Be in denial.

I don't care.

[Massadonious1]

I'd say mediums where "everyone lives" is actually becoming less common, simply because creators/directors/etc. feel the need to force these "emotional" plot deaths on the audience.

When characters "die" nowadays, the only real surprise is how they die, not that they actually do.

[Isaidlunch]

Someone With Mass wrote...

GodWood wrote...
There's a reason why the death of a MAJOR character is usually a shock.

It can't be a shock if it's predicted. Which 100% of the character deaths in ME3 are, since we all know that some will die somehow. That does not make it a shock in any way. That makes it more like a lottery.

 

A companion dying in ME3 may not be a shock but Tali being stabbed by Vorcha Thug #139 would be.

Since ASOIAF is such a good example for this topic, most readers expect that major characters will die throughout the series. That doesn't make it any less shocking when and how the deaths occur.

Edit: Sorry, should have read through the thread a little more. I agree with what you're saying Mass.

Modifié par Kazanth, 02 septembre 2011 - 08:43 .

[Lunatic LK47]

Someone With Mass wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I'm sorry what?

I can't understand what you're trying to say.

Be in denial.

I don't care.

Translation: Godwood and Cousland have their heads stuck up their asses that they go out of their way to belittle anyone who thinks otherwise. I'm actually with Mass on this.

[Someone With Mass]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'd say mediums where "everyone lives" is actually becoming less common, simply because creators/directors/etc. feel the need to force these "emotional" plot deaths on the audience.

When characters "die" nowadays, the only real surprise is how they die, not that they actually do.

It's pretty much the reason why so many like the Saw movies or the Final Destination movies. They all know everyone's as good as dead. They're just curious of how they're going to die. If someone actually survives, that's a surprise.

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...

GodWood wrote...
It is a shock because its unexpected.
It's unexpected because it doesn't usually happen.
It doesn't usually happen because the majority of the time the main characters live.
Therefore, because the majority of time the main characters live one could say that it is more of a cliche.

But come on now, we both know you're just being difficult or your in denial.

Except when it can happen in ME2 to anyone on the team. Even Shepard.

(Ignoring the fact that it's quite difficult to achieve) So?

You can literally play ME3 with only two survivors from ME2. If you kill them off too, you've only completed what the suicide mission couldn't.

Which isn't exactly shocking.

What, why? What are you even talking about?

Someone With Mass wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I'm sorry what?

I can't understand what you're trying to say.

Be in denial.

I don't care.

I'm sorry but you just weren't very clear.

And stop being so hostile, relax bro.

[Someone With Mass]

GodWood wrote...
(Ignoring the fact that it's quite difficult to achieve) So?

Oh, so we're going to ignore everything just becasue you actually have to put some effort (strange word for some, I know) in it?

Well, then there's really nothing to discuss, because I really doubt BioWare will give you a kill card you can activate at any time for any character.

[GodWood]

Someone With Mass wrote...

GodWood wrote...
(Ignoring the fact that it's quite difficult to achieve) So?

Oh, so we're going to ignore everything just becasue you actually have to put some effort in it?

....
You seem to have a habit of latching onto sentences and quoting them out of context then creating responses that seem completely irrelevent.

We were discussing that 'It's unexpected for a major character to die because it doesn't usually happen' to which you replied with:

Except when it can happen in ME2 to anyone on the team. Even Shepard.

Which really didn't contradict what I said at all.

The reason why I chose to ignore the fact that's hard to achieve was because it's just something that doesn't support what you said anyway.

Well, then there's really nothing to discuss, because I really doubt BioWare will give you a kill card you can activate at any time for any character.

....
I'm pretty sure I was advocating against this.

Modifié par GodWood, 02 septembre 2011 - 09:06 .

[Han Shot First]

I'm thankful that those who want an 'everyone lives' ending where not involved in any way with the making of the movies Gladiator,  Glory, Terminator 2, Saving Private Ryan, Spartacus or Road to Peridition.  Instead the protagonist would have lived in all of them (history be damned in a few of them) and they wouldn't be half as good as they are.

I'm not sure why have some have difficulty with the characters being killed off, so long as it makes sense in the story and is executed well.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 septembre 2011 - 09:09 .

[MarauderESP]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm thankful that those who want an 'everyone lives' ending where not involved in any way with the making of the movies Gladiator,  Glory, Terminator 2, Saving Private Ryan, Spartacus or Road to Peridition.  Instead the protagonist would have lived in all of them (history be damned in a few of them) and they wouldn't be half as good as they are.

I'm not sure why have some have difficulty with the characters being killed off, so long as it makes sense in the story and is executed well.

well im going to tell u a secret........... those on bold u see them right....... well like u said those are MOVIES and u dont interact with them.... if im given the choice of saving my shep and squadies, ill pick it up and will be very happy, you don´t? well i cant do anything about it.....
and this is my opinion and is as valid as anyone else 

[Siegdrifa]

GodWood wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Just because it has a shock doesn't mean it is any less cliche...try again.

It is a shock because its unexpected.
It's unexpected because it doesn't usually happen.
It doesn't usually happen because the majority of the time the main characters live.
Therefore, because the majority of time the main characters live one could say that it is more of a cliche.

But come on now, we both know you're just being difficult or your in denial.

- It's not a shock because many player will be expecting it as a possibility for all characters and it's predictable when it could occure during the game (see the last part of my post)
- it's not unexpect because it happen regulary dozen and dozen of video games, books, movie, animation
, not to mention ME1 (un avoidable death) and ME2 (optionnal death), it is a little redundant.
- even if it's not a majority, this is the most used "tool" to make sure you shake the player / reader etc.

Why it's not a majority ? because usualy storys are about "fight to make a better life" and not "fight to meet a good death".
To make "death" an apparent composant of the story, death of main characters are not required, it's is a writting issue, using other "tools" can make it appear frightening and give you a swet for your characters during the story.

Talking about reallity is totaly understandable, why everybody (main characters) should survive this threat ? wich if it was real, could result in unnecessary death (because this is what it' all about in reality, a lost bulet and it's over).

So, i wonder if people are not just looking for "glorious death", so the character would be remembered as a hero, a legend, wich actualy couldn't be as much glorified if he was still alive.
I remember a real story when a roch singer hit his wife (an actress) until she died, it was a shock and serval music radio had fan calling to speak about it, and part of them was kind of "happy" because thanks to a tragedy, now the roch singer "had a real star legend life". I'm not talking about the meaninfull of the death involved (wich is stupid to say it was a good thing since it's a murder), but as DEATH is like a "pass" to "legendary status" in the head of some people.

Syndrom of popular musicians dying at young age at the top of their glory... so good for their carreer and status (because the sell more dead and are remembered as legend, humanity is so wonderfull *puke*)

I find the main character die at the end a cliché because, it was already done dozen of time already, so when it's new, impact is maximum... after so many times, no so much (totaly related to our own experience).
It as also a lazy solution to :
1- make him / she a legendary figure (totaly bull**** in my books, the "easy pass to legend" death and tadam!))
2- hero have an out of norm life so they should meet and same kind of death (not from old age or a simple lost bullet)
3- damn, how to keep going with new characters when the old one cast shadow because of all the amazing things he accomplished (saving the galaxy is not realy the daily quest) .... just make him die ! he will be revered and most of all, we can keep going with a new hero not in the shadow of Shep (second kind of bull****, it's a writting issue).

While death can fix many things, it's sadly an excuse for uninspired writting.

To finish, Bioware structure for their games would kill the impact for all Bioware fan.
I have serious doubt that ME3 will be about "fighting the reaper threat all along", it would be "gaher [insert] races [/insert] and defeat [insert] reapers threat [/insert] in a final mission".
It's hard to belive death of main character would occure during those "gathering mission" exept if characters are forced on you, and less belivable for sub quest.
So, WHEN death of main characters could occure ?
During scripted even quest that usualy happen at the end of the game OR here and there every 3 or 4 "gathering quest" to keep the player in touch with the story going on. you know, the quest that you are forced to do right now because "something happened, we need you now".

[Siegdrifa]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm thankful that those who want an 'everyone lives' ending where not involved in any way with the making of the movies Gladiator,  Glory, Terminator 2, Saving Private Ryan, Spartacus or Road to Peridition.  Instead the protagonist would have lived in all of them (history be damned in a few of them) and they wouldn't be half as good as they are.

I'm not sure why have some have difficulty with the characters being killed off, so long as it makes sense in the story and is executed well.

As much as a well executed "everyone lives".

I'm not looking for a fight, just sying the way you feel about it is as honest and true to yourself than the others with their ideas.

That's why Bioware should, rather than pick a stance to please one faction, just stick with what they do best "make it possble".

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 02 septembre 2011 - 10:22 .

[MarauderESP]

Siegdrifa wrote...

As much as a well executed "everyone lives".

I'm not looking for a fight, just sying the way you feel about it is as honest and true to yourself than the others with their ideas.

That's why Bioware should, rather than pick a stance to please one faction, just stick with what they do best "make it possble".

oh i like they way of ur thinking 

agree 100% 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Just because it has a shock doesn't mean it is any less cliche...try again.

It is a shock because its unexpected.
It's unexpected because it doesn't usually happen.
It doesn't usually happen because the majority of the time the main characters live.
Therefore, because the majority of time the main characters live one could say that it is more of a cliche.

But come on now, we both know you're just being difficult or your in denial.

I just want you to prove it is "more" cliche, I look forward to a well thought out explanation.



Good day.

Any time H_T closes wiht "Good day" I laugh.

[Someone With Mass]

Siegdrifa wrote...
*agreementsnip*

Very well put.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm thankful that those who want an 'everyone lives' ending where not involved in any way with the making of the movies Gladiator,  Glory, Terminator 2, Saving Private Ryan, Spartacus or Road to Peridition.  Instead the protagonist would have lived in all of them (history be damned in a few of them) and they wouldn't be half as good as they are.

I'm not sure why have some have difficulty with the characters being killed off, so long as it makes sense in the story and is executed well.

As much as a well executed "everyone lives".

I'm not looking for a fight, just sying the way you feel about it is as honest and true to yourself than the others with their ideas.

That's why Bioware should, rather than pick a stance to please one faction, just stick with what they do best "make it possble".

Which is essentially picking a faction.<_<

[Lotion Soronarr]

GodWood wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

GodWood wrote...
(Ignoring the fact that it's quite difficult to achieve) So?

Oh, so we're going to ignore everything just becasue you actually have to put some effort in it?

....
You seem to have a habit of latching onto sentences and quoting them out of context then creating responses that seem completely irrelevent.

I noticed that too.
Yesterday he quoted me and then started rambling about something that had abolutely nothing to do with what he quoted.
Lack of sleep or drugs I wager.

[Whatever42]

Han Shot First wrote...

I'm thankful that those who want an 'everyone lives' ending where not involved in any way with the making of the movies Gladiator,  Glory, Terminator 2, Saving Private Ryan, Spartacus or Road to Peridition.  Instead the protagonist would have lived in all of them (history be damned in a few of them) and they wouldn't be half as good as they are.

I'm not sure why have some have difficulty with the characters being killed off, so long as it makes sense in the story and is executed well.

When you picked up Mass Effect, did you think it resembled Gladiator, Spartacus, Road to Perdition, Glory, or Saving Private Ryan? And in T2, the main character was Sarah Connor, who lived.

ME was based on Star Wars, the original BSG, Blade Runner, Star Trek and B5, where the main characters pretty much all do live (although the intended ending of Blade Runner had the LI die but she was doomed from the start).

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 02 septembre 2011 - 10:47 .

[Ultai]

Dangerous amounts of the word cliche in this thread. By now everything's a cliche, so can't really say that word has any bearing anymore.