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[Legion 2.5]

 This would make my day.

Something like what happened to poor Sgt. Johnson 

Or poor Wheeljack/Que

Modifié par Legion 2.5, 30 août 2011 - 09:43 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Ricardo HWO wrote...

 Hell if the deaths in ME3 are anywhere near as emotional as John Marston's ( Red Dead Redemption), that would make one hell of a game. When John  died, I practically cried, I felt sad for the character and how far he had come only to die. I also felt compelled to take my revenge as Jack, john's son in the epilogue-esque post game.
If ME had emotional depth like this, I would love it.

Indeed. Red Dead Redemption's ending was really something.

[Lucifer_Cheney]

Mike2640 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

The problem with emotional death scenes of the  Squadmates and LI's  is that Bioware is  eventual going to have to  take control  away from the player.   Take Virimire  -  itself was good idea but what most will do  is save the character they like the most.    Thus removing the impact of the death  of this character  from the story...  If the  Shepard had no choice or control(thus the player having no choice or control)   Then you started to get into the emotions that  death can cause -  Grief, anger, frustation,  etc, etc.    Unfortunately there is no real way the  Bioware can  do the emotional death of the      Squadmates and LI  because doing so would take control of the story out of the players hands and that goes against Bioware designed for the whole game.

Not really. I didn't have a choice when killing 300,000 baterians. That was a really crappy decision on their end, but it shows Bioware has no problem slapping away the player's hand if it might get in the way of the story they want to tell.

Lucifer_Cheney wrote...

I think deaths caused by poor (but
unintentional) decision-making on the part of the player would create a
more emotional and compelling gameplay experience.

Example: in
DA 2 when Hawke is faced with a choice regarding his sister that may or
may not prove to be fatal. Your decision has varying outcomes, which IMO
makes you want to think before making the choice and makes the game
more immersive.

That only works once though. As soon as the player realizes that they did something wrong, they simply reload. It needs to feel like an outcome of past decisions, without it feeling like the player failed in some way.

Without giving it away, in the example I mentioned, the consequences of that decision doesn't play out until the end of the mission. But to your point, it doesn't have to be exactly like that decision, but the approach to such would be more preferable than a random/mandatory death. as it may or may not involve your favorite characters.

[Feanor_II]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Virmire was dreadful. It doesn't make you emotionally invested, it's just a cheap and boring way to kill off a character without you being able to do anything about it.

Strongly DISAGREE. That's the greatness of Virmire.

You are in the middle of a hell of a battle and things go suddenly wrong, FAST, NO TIME, DECIDE.
F****! you're in a storm of shoots and explosion. Things happen that way in those situations, no time to stop, take the fallen friends hands, a last goodbye, a last promise and a tear that falls on his body as Shepp remembers the Good-old-times, you'll have time to cry after yoy get out of there.

No. it all deppends of the situation, I think that there should be all kind of deads. Deads that are because of wrong decisions from our part (both present or past decssions from previous games), unavoidable deads, emotional deads and fast and sudden deads.

[lazuli]

The squadmate deaths in ME1 were handled better than they were in ME2. I want more Virmire situations, where I am forced to make a difficult choice between two characters. Beyond that, there should be a few squadmates or beloved characters that die regardless.

I'd say 2 Virmire situations and 2 or 3 inevitable deaths would be the right amount for me, but they'd all have to be structured differently so as not to seem repetitive.

[nitefyre410]

Mike2640 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

The problem with emotional death scenes of the  Squadmates and LI's  is that Bioware is  eventual going to have to  take control  away from the player.   Take Virimire  -  itself was good idea but what most will do  is save the character they like the most.    Thus removing the impact of the death  of this character  from the story...  If the  Shepard had no choice or control(thus the player having no choice or control)   Then you started to get into the emotions that  death can cause -  Grief, anger, frustation,  etc, etc.    Unfortunately there is no real way the  Bioware can  do the emotional death of the      Squadmates and LI  because doing so would take control of the story out of the players hands and that goes against Bioware designed for the whole game.

Not really. I didn't have a choice when killing 300,000 baterians. That was a really crappy decision on their end, but it shows Bioware has no problem slapping away the player's hand if it might get in the way of the story they want to tell.

  

Thats True you don't but there is a huge difference between 300,000  batarians and  characters that  people have spent  3 games  becoming  invested in and attached too .  All built around the Premise the you  Shepard would have  some influence in how theirs(in some sense) and  Shepards story plays  out.      Hell  the BSN   blows up over the changing of Shepards hair color could you imagine what would happen if  they  killed off a LI  and took control out of the players hands....  the Outrage  would collapse the internet. 

[nitefyre410]

Legion 2.5 wrote...

 This would make my day.

Something like what happened to poor Sgt. Johnson 

Or poor Wheeljack/Que

 


Or what happen to  Ironhide in the same movie  with  Que....  Curse Sentinal Prime to the deepest darkest cervice of the Pit for  what he did and it was Cosmic Rust  too... which made it worst.

[Ianamus]

I hope that some of the actual scenarios will be handled like Malik in Deus ex: Human Revolution. It's possible to save them, but very challenging gameplay-wise.

I found Virmire emotional- but the deaths in the Suicide mission didn't impact me at all. They seemed rushed, and were not very personal. I know that we had to get on with the mission story-wise, but I would have preferred an unrealistic moment of calm and a conversation with them, with dialogue options, while they died. Maybe even Shepard cradling a dead LI in his or her arms, rather than forgetting them and rushing on, which, while admittedly more realistic, left me no time to actually get upset about what happened.

Seeing nameless coffins didn't help much either. Just a nameplate or a photograph- and having Shepard look at them and appear visibly upset, or even leaving flowers would have been a lot better than casually glancing over the featureless coffins. They might have well have contained Shepards dead fish.

Modifié par EJ107, 30 août 2011 - 10:01 .

[Puzzlewell]

I plan to play ME3 in the way that I will not reload when it comes to the unavoidable deaths. It may be gutwrenching depending on who it is that dies, but my canon-run has never been "reload if I don't like the outcome", and ME3 will be handled the same way. It has more emotional value if you don't reload, and I'm hoping BioWare will give these deaths more than just a one line sendoff, since it could be with someone who Shep has know for 3 games. That's another reason the SM was kind of a joke. I had deaths in my canon-run, I didn't reload and while there is that somber scene with Shep looking at the coffins after the fact, because it's at the end of the main game there isn't much to reflect on (though playing LOTSB after the SM does remedy that a little with a dialogue exchange between Liara and Shep).

EJ: Next time mark spoilers for games some of us haven't completed huh? I'm not even far enough to know that situation can happen with Malik, and now I'm going to be expecting it.

Modifié par CalamityRanger, 30 août 2011 - 10:07 .

[BlaCKRodjj]

Mike2640 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

The problem with emotional death scenes of the  Squadmates and LI's  is that Bioware is  eventual going to have to  take control  away from the player.   Take Virimire  -  itself was good idea but what most will do  is save the character they like the most.    Thus removing the impact of the death  of this character  from the story...  If the  Shepard had no choice or control(thus the player having no choice or control)   Then you started to get into the emotions that  death can cause -  Grief, anger, frustation,  etc, etc.    Unfortunately there is no real way the  Bioware can  do the emotional death of the      Squadmates and LI  because doing so would take control of the story out of the players hands and that goes against Bioware designed for the whole game.

Not really. I didn't have a choice when killing 300,000 baterians. That was a really crappy decision on their end, but it shows Bioware has no problem slapping away the player's hand if it might get in the way of the story they want to tell.

And what would you have done? "Let's save 300.000 batarian lives just so they can live an extra hour before the reapers arrive and kill not only them but the entire galaxy" THAT was the whole point of the DLC, stopping the reapers, the collateral damage was part of the DLC' storyline. Obviously Bioware wants to tell this story, IT'S THEIR'S, it's like asking why did we had to kill saren, i wanted to join the reapers! durr

[Mike2640]

BlaCKRodjj wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

The problem with emotional death scenes of the  Squadmates and LI's  is that Bioware is  eventual going to have to  take control  away from the player.   Take Virimire  -  itself was good idea but what most will do  is save the character they like the most.    Thus removing the impact of the death  of this character  from the story...  If the  Shepard had no choice or control(thus the player having no choice or control)   Then you started to get into the emotions that  death can cause -  Grief, anger, frustation,  etc, etc.    Unfortunately there is no real way the  Bioware can  do the emotional death of the      Squadmates and LI  because doing so would take control of the story out of the players hands and that goes against Bioware designed for the whole game.

Not really. I didn't have a choice when killing 300,000 baterians. That was a really crappy decision on their end, but it shows Bioware has no problem slapping away the player's hand if it might get in the way of the story they want to tell.

And what would you have done? "Let's save 300.000 batarian lives just so they can live an extra hour before the reapers arrive and kill not only them but the entire galaxy" THAT was the whole point of the DLC, stopping the reapers, the collateral damage was part of the DLC' storyline. Obviously Bioware wants to tell this story, IT'S THEIR'S, it's like asking why did we had to kill saren, i wanted to join the reapers! durr

Except you don't stop them. The Reapers are coming anyway. Shepard is no more prepared to face them at the beining of ME3 than he was before. He wasn't stopping the Reapers; he committed genocide to buy time.

That's neither here nor there. My point is, if Bioware feels it can service the story better they can make Shepard, and therefore the players, powerless to stop an event from transpiring. Like the death of a friend.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

nitefyre410 wrote...


Or what happen to  Ironhide in the same movie  with  Que....  Curse Sentinal Prime to the deepest darkest cervice of the Pit for  what he did and it was Cosmic Rust  too... which made it worst.

I nearly walked out of the theater when that happened.

[sephiroth199127]

I want Garrus to die because of The illusive man and Shepherd to yell "TIM!!!!!!!"<with a slow pan from a planet>

[nitefyre410]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


Or what happen to  Ironhide in the same movie  with  Que....  Curse Sentinal Prime to the deepest darkest cervice of the Pit for  what he did and it was Cosmic Rust  too... which made it worst.

I nearly walked out of the theater when that happened.

 


To be honest Ironhide always died really bad ways... in the original  1984 Animated movie  Megatron shot in the back the head while begging for he life.....

Thats where we get the line " Such heroic nonsense"

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Dom and Maria -- Gears 2

This one gets me every time.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 30 août 2011 - 10:43 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


Or what happen to  Ironhide in the same movie  with  Que....  Curse Sentinal Prime to the deepest darkest cervice of the Pit for  what he did and it was Cosmic Rust  too... which made it worst.

I nearly walked out of the theater when that happened.

 


To be honest Ironhide always died really bad ways... in the original  1984 Animated movie  Megatron shot in the back the head while begging for he life.....

Thats where we get the line " Such heroic nonsense"

I always hated the whole " I'm Optimus Prime and I'm the bestest" the he gets his ass whooped until the final battle,in every...fricken..movie, the whole heroic death thing can get disgustingly old...

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

An emotional death, yeah. I would say yes, depending on who and if it is forced or not.

I got kinda annoyed when someone died on the SM, and there was pretty much no reaction. No emotion to the death whatsoever. I know that was because of the variants, but some recognition would have been nice.

[Annihilator27]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Legion 2.5 wrote...

 This would make my day.

Something like what happened to poor Sgt. Johnson 

Or poor Wheeljack/Que

 


Or what happen to  Ironhide in the same movie  with  Que....  Curse Sentinal Prime to the deepest darkest cervice of the Pit for  what he did and it was Cosmic Rust  too... which made it worst.

Those deaths suck. I thought Me and Johnson were going to make an epic escape with the Arbiter.But the passenger side remained empty.....

[Lunatic LK47]

Mike2640 wrote...
That's neither here nor there. My point is, if Bioware feels it can service the story better they can make Shepard, and therefore the players, powerless to stop an event from transpiring. Like the death of a friend.

Problem here. You're basically telling the fans of the characters slated to die to F*** OFF or YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE WASTED THIS TIME WITH CHARACTER X. As much as I loved Bastila in KOTOR 1, I actually dreaded having to replay the Leviathan just because "The story dictates Bastila gets captured." All it did was tell me "Don't bother getting invested with this character, just because the plot says my time will be shortlived." All that's left out of that is I'm stuck having to go Dark side if I wanted her back in the party while Light-siders only relegate Bastila to supporting role, or God-forbid, having to kill her because they didn't persuade or use the Jedi Code. Not really my idea of fun here.

[crimzontearz]

look, as long as Shepard, Tali, Garrus, Joker and Liara survivethe others can all die and burn in hell

edit: and preferences aside......I despise the fact that in order to make things "mature" or "meaningful" or "not a disney ending" or whatever there has to be a number of deaths including, possibly, that of the hero

Honestly I hope Bioware does not shove any of this down our throats

Modifié par crimzontearz, 30 août 2011 - 11:35 .

[nitefyre410]

The Cosmic Rust in  the back  man the was brutal ... and just LOW .

But I Digress. 


The major and overall  point is this - You don't use  death to create a sense of the drama.    If you story, movie, book, tv show, video game does not  have the emotional weight and  sense of personal drama from the start then Killing off  people is not going to create it, espeical not at end of the Trilogy.   It has nothing to do with "Oh  but thats a cliche happy ending etc."   Its about  good story telling and bad story telling and using death to create drama is cheap.  If you going to create a death with emotional impact then when it comes to it you goning to take control  of the outcome away from the player.  Lets take  one of the greatest death scenes in recent memory(IM)  The Boss at the end of the MGS 3  - that scene was brillant  you  tell that Snake(Big Boss) was torned about what he had to do and there was no escaping  it. Now take that very same scene put  the level of you choice  have in Mass Effect - Give Snake the  wheel and all the options  Shepard would have and the scene  loses it impact. 

[Kabanya101]

Deaths in ME1 were very realistic and the ending when Liara was crying cause she thought Shepard was dead

Those are things thats you remember and enjoy even though they werent good moments