896 réponses à ce sujet

[Mike2640]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
That's neither here nor there. My point is, if Bioware feels it can service the story better they can make Shepard, and therefore the players, powerless to stop an event from transpiring. Like the death of a friend.

Problem here. You're basically telling the fans of the characters slated to die to F*** OFF or YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE WASTED THIS TIME WITH CHARACTER X. As much as I loved Bastila in KOTOR 1, I actually dreaded having to replay the Leviathan just because "The story dictates Bastila gets captured." All it did was tell me "Don't bother getting invested with this character, just because the plot says my time will be shortlived." All that's left out of that is I'm stuck having to go Dark side if I wanted her back in the party while Light-siders only relegate Bastila to supporting role, or God-forbid, having to kill her because they didn't persuade or use the Jedi Code. Not really my idea of fun here.

I still love Tara from Buffy the Vampire Slayer even though I know she has one of the more shocking and sudden deaths i've seen on television. I enjoy all the time she gets and I love how her death affects the story. I don't know why you wouldn't want to get invested in the character, even if they die. Why wouldn't you, especially now that the series is ending? Either way you're not going to see these characters again. Your time with Bastila wasn't "Short lived." You had the better part of a twenty-hour-or-longer game to get to know her and enjoy her character. With Mass Effect you've had one or two full games to get to know these characters. Why would their death negate the experiences you have with them in beforehand?

I guess I dont see time spent with the character "wasted" just because they might die.

Modifié par Mike2640, 30 août 2011 - 11:42 .

[crimzontearz]

because some of us replay the game dozens of times

forcing a LI death or Shepard's death on the player would prevent many of us from replaying

Like I could never bring myself to replay "the darkness"

[Homebound]

suicide mission = sacrificial lion.
tvtrope it.

[Mike2640]

nitefyre410 wrote...
Now take that very same scene put  the level of you choice  have in Mass Effect - Give Snake the  wheel and all the options  Shepard would have and the scene  loses it impact. 

That's simply not true. Just because Shepard has more options than most video game characters doesn't mean he can do anything.

You couldn't save Benezia. You couldn't talk Saren into joining you. You can't make the council believe you about the Reapers.

Just because Shepard can do more, doesn't mean he can do everything. That's why I don't think that the character deaths are going to be Virmire-like, besides the fact that it's treading old ground. Shep isn't God, sometimes even he is helpless to stop something from happening.

Shepard =/= Space Jesus

[Sajuro]

jreezy wrote...

TheZyzyva wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

*snip* or he could pull out his pistol and euthanize his LI so she wouldn't have to suffer anymore and so she can die in his arms.

Renegade interrupt: Leans over her, "Shhh, don't try to talk, it's ok..." She's coughing up blood, no longer able to speak. Shep leans in close and cradles her head and whispers while slowly pulling out his pistol, "I'll always love you. I'll never forget you." She moves her eyes to look at him and smiles, then shuts them and nods. Screen cuts away to the next door. Gunshot, a thump, then Shep strides to the door, casting one last glance before it shuts behind him.

Nice scene but that should be a Paragon interrupt.

My idea would be to have both a renegade and paragon interrupt, Paragon would be like the one above but with Renegade Shepard would try and remain stoic while saying goodbye to his LI but be on the verge of cracking such as telling Ashley to report for duty in heaven before closing her eyes or telling Jack that she doesn't have to fight or suffer anymore, if it is a femshep with Thane she can saw something along the lines seeing him again on the other side of the sea and both could have a bit for Liara where Shep says something like "We both knew one of us would die first Liara, I will always remember you and the time we spent together."

[nitefyre410]

Mike2640 wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
That's neither here nor there. My point is, if Bioware feels it can service the story better they can make Shepard, and therefore the players, powerless to stop an event from transpiring. Like the death of a friend.

Problem here. You're basically telling the fans of the characters slated to die to F*** OFF or YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE WASTED THIS TIME WITH CHARACTER X. As much as I loved Bastila in KOTOR 1, I actually dreaded having to replay the Leviathan just because "The story dictates Bastila gets captured." All it did was tell me "Don't bother getting invested with this character, just because the plot says my time will be shortlived." All that's left out of that is I'm stuck having to go Dark side if I wanted her back in the party while Light-siders only relegate Bastila to supporting role, or God-forbid, having to kill her because they didn't persuade or use the Jedi Code. Not really my idea of fun here.

I still love Tara from Buffy the Vampire Slayer even though I know she has one of the more shocking and sudden deaths i've seen on television. I enjoy all the time she gets and I love how her death affects the story. I don't know why you wouldn't want to get invested in the character, even if they die. Why wouldn't you, especially now that the series is ending? Either way you're not going to see these characters again. Your time with Bastila wasn't "Short lived." You had the better part of a twenty-hour-or-longer game to get to know her and enjoy her character. With Mass Effect you've had one or two full games to get to know these characters. Why would their death negate the experiences you have with them in beforehand?

I guess I dont see time spent with the character "wasted" just because they might die.

 


I love  Tara too  -  Look at what her death  was catalyst for   and all the happened because of it.   When stepping  back  and look at her Death it was not a death to create sense of the drama that season the  tension was already there .    Thats  is how a character death show work  but at this point considering how Bioware has built Shepards of  overstory and level choice involved there is now way they pull something like that off with a LI or Squadmate simply because   of "Well My Shepard  wouldn't (insert reason here) "    I would love to see something like a Tara death happen and see the crew reel from pick themselves up and continue foward -  I just don't see it happening because it takes control of forging the story away from the player.

[Mike2640]

crimzontearz wrote...

because some of us replay the game dozens of times

forcing a LI death or Shepard's death on the player would prevent many of us from replaying

Like I could never bring myself to replay "the darkness"

So do I. Watched Buffy from start to finish loads of times, and still loved it despite how trigger happy Joss Whedon gets with the characters near the end of the series.

Replayed Mass Effect a buch too. Still enjoy it, even though Kaiden/Ashley dies every time.

[mopotter]

Undertone wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Virmire was dreadful. It doesn't make you emotionally invested, it's just a cheap and boring way to kill off a character without you being able to do anything about it.

I'd rather like it if it's handled like the suicide mission, where it's my own fault if someone dies. That way, all the morbid people that wants their, oh, so emotional deaths can ****** all day.

Why should I deliberately play like an idiot to lose someone? It doesn't create any emotional impact at all. It's me making the wrong decision knowing what the right decision is at the same time.

And seriously go play Sims or something. What are you doing playing a shooter in the first place?

I vehemently disagree with this outlook.  I do NOT play like an idiot.  I play as a comander doing their best and sometime that best isn't good enough.  I do all of the upgrades, that is sensible.  I do not go to the cheat list to see who should be doing what in order to have everyone come out alive.  That, imo, is playing like an idiot or at the very least playing like someone who doesn't want variety in their game.   Follow the flow chart and get everyone out or make decisions based on what the NPC's can do, even if BioWare has fixed the outcomes to some extent.  

I do not just play the game once and repeat the same options each time and that's one reason I play BioWare games.  I pay the big bucks for pre-ordered collector edition BioWare games because of the story first, game play 2nd.    If I wanted to play a shooter I'd go play call of duty  and if BioWare no longer includes the items that make me choose their game over another, I'll stop buying them but I don't expect that to happen for many years to come.

[crimzontearz]

Mike2640 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

because some of us replay the game dozens of times

forcing a LI death or Shepard's death on the player would prevent many of us from replaying

Like I could never bring myself to replay "the darkness"

So do I. Watched Buffy from start to finish loads of times, and still loved it despite how trigger happy Joss Whedon gets with the characters near the end of the series.

Replayed Mass Effect a buch too. Still enjoy it, even though Kaiden/Ashley dies every time.

Yes, but Ash/Kaiden gives you a CHOICE. Thus...people who want their LI/favorite character to die can have it...and those who don't can sacrifice the other one......

in the suicide mission you can surgically kill off characters for preference or dramatic effect....if you don't then you can have them all survive

see where I am going?

Modifié par crimzontearz, 30 août 2011 - 11:55 .

[Mike2640]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
That's neither here nor there. My point is, if Bioware feels it can service the story better they can make Shepard, and therefore the players, powerless to stop an event from transpiring. Like the death of a friend.

Problem here. You're basically telling the fans of the characters slated to die to F*** OFF or YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE WASTED THIS TIME WITH CHARACTER X. As much as I loved Bastila in KOTOR 1, I actually dreaded having to replay the Leviathan just because "The story dictates Bastila gets captured." All it did was tell me "Don't bother getting invested with this character, just because the plot says my time will be shortlived." All that's left out of that is I'm stuck having to go Dark side if I wanted her back in the party while Light-siders only relegate Bastila to supporting role, or God-forbid, having to kill her because they didn't persuade or use the Jedi Code. Not really my idea of fun here.

I still love Tara from Buffy the Vampire Slayer even though I know she has one of the more shocking and sudden deaths i've seen on television. I enjoy all the time she gets and I love how her death affects the story. I don't know why you wouldn't want to get invested in the character, even if they die. Why wouldn't you, especially now that the series is ending? Either way you're not going to see these characters again. Your time with Bastila wasn't "Short lived." You had the better part of a twenty-hour-or-longer game to get to know her and enjoy her character. With Mass Effect you've had one or two full games to get to know these characters. Why would their death negate the experiences you have with them in beforehand?

I guess I dont see time spent with the character "wasted" just because they might die.

 


I love  Tara too  -  Look at what her death  was catalyst for   and all the happened because of it.   When stepping  back  and look at her Death it was not a death to create sense of the drama that season the  tension was already there .    Thats  is how a character death show work  but at this point considering how Bioware has built Shepards of  overstory and level choice involved there is now way they pull something like that off with a LI or Squadmate simply because   of "Well My Shepard  wouldn't (insert reason here) "    I would love to see something like a Tara death happen and see the crew reel from pick themselves up and continue foward -  I just don't see it happening because it takes control of forging the story away from the player.

That's why I'm thinking it will be a situation where Shepard literally could not save them. We know some of the previous Squaddies wont be full time members again. To bring back my Mordin example from a few pages ago, while Mordin is helping with the Genophage cure on Tuchanka Shepard is in deep space or Illium/somewhere else and finds out about the Reaper's bombarding Tuchanka only after it's too late. He may be able to share some final words with Mordin, but he physically can do nothing to stop him from dying.

It's not unreasonable for Shep to not be able to save him in a scenario like that, and it's not taking away a choice from the players because it was something that they couldn't possibly have done anything about in the first place.

[Sajuro]

For all of the people complaining about forced deaths, I have a question of what if it was in a scenario in which one of your squadmates chose to sacrifice themselves for Shepard in much the same way he did for Joker in the start ME2.
Say before the penultimate mission, Shepard is flying towards a base or some Reaper Central station they have to lug around because of not being able to use the citadel. Suddenly a Reaper picks up on the Normandy and attacks it, wrecking the ship like the collector ship did. Shepard gets injured in the explosion and one of the squadmates like Zaeed gets Shepard up and helps him walk, saying something like "I'm gud damn tired of being the only one to survive Shepard." As the normandy is breaking apart he takes you to the kodiak which your squad is using to escape and shoves you inside of the Kodiak before closing the hatch from the outside and punching someone when they try to get in because Zaeed knows the ship won't last much longer. Then as the Kodiak escapes the Normandy blows up with Zaeed or whatever squadmate on board and the Kodiak is able to make it to the Reaper station.

[Mike2640]

crimzontearz wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

because some of us replay the game dozens of times

forcing a LI death or Shepard's death on the player would prevent many of us from replaying

Like I could never bring myself to replay "the darkness"

So do I. Watched Buffy from start to finish loads of times, and still loved it despite how trigger happy Joss Whedon gets with the characters near the end of the series.

Replayed Mass Effect a buch too. Still enjoy it, even though Kaiden/Ashley dies every time.

Yes, but Ash/Kaiden gives you a CHOICE. Thus...people who want their LI/favorite character to die can have it...and those who don't can sacrifice the other one......

in the suicide mission you can surgically kill off characters for preference or dramatic effect....if you don't then you can have them all survive

see where I am going?

I see what your saying, but that's a little Meta don't you think? Plus that's simulated drama. The player that lets Zieed get killed on the ship can imagine it's a very tragic scene but he'll still always know that he orchestrated it that way. It's the difference between watching a friend get shot during a mugging, and smothering him with a pillow yourself while he's in a coma and pretending the bullet killed him. Very different emotions.

[nitefyre410]

Mike2640 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
Now take that very same scene put  the level of you choice  have in Mass Effect - Give Snake the  wheel and all the options  Shepard would have and the scene  loses it impact. 

That's simply not true. Just because Shepard has more options than most video game characters doesn't mean he can do anything.

You couldn't save Benezia. You couldn't talk Saren into joining you. You can't make the council believe you about the Reapers.

Just because Shepard can do more, doesn't mean he can do everything. That's why I don't think that the character deaths are going to be Virmire-like, besides the fact that it's treading old ground. Shep isn't God, sometimes even he is helpless to stop something from happening.

Shepard =/= Space Jesus

 
 

never said   Shepard = space Jesus     

What I am saying that is  -  the type  of  death and impact you are asking for  is not going to work in a  game where the player can choose how the main character can and will react.   Benezia,   Saren  and the Council  are   at the end  very minor  emotional investments for you player  compared to Ashley , Garrus , Liara  etc etc.    

Its not going to work because

player A  is going to  have  Shepard react  like X 

Player B is going to have Shepard react like  Y

and  player  C is going  have Shepard react like  Z .

What makes a character death emotionally impacting is the affect  on the  main Character  and the  reaction of the make main character to the death.   If  player A   can make  his/her  Shepard take  option X  which equals to Shepard going  "Oh well tough ****.. moving on" Emotional impact is lost.  

 

[mopotter]

crimzontearz wrote...

because some of us replay the game dozens of times

forcing a LI death or Shepard's death on the player would prevent many of us from replaying

Like I could never bring myself to replay "the darkness"

Up to a point I agree.  I do not want the LI to die in every re play becuase like you I'd stop playing if all 10 current Shepards lost their LI because of a forced death.    But I can handle the LI dieing if I've messed up something.  True, I'll probably go back and fix whatever it was, but I could do that.  

I would dislike another vs choice.  Been there done that and I would dislike deaths that you can't controle somehow.  I'm playing a video game for fun, not for real life experiences.  

[Quole]

How about... no deaths?

[Mike2640]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
Now take that very same scene put  the level of you choice  have in Mass Effect - Give Snake the  wheel and all the options  Shepard would have and the scene  loses it impact. 

That's simply not true. Just because Shepard has more options than most video game characters doesn't mean he can do anything.

You couldn't save Benezia. You couldn't talk Saren into joining you. You can't make the council believe you about the Reapers.

Just because Shepard can do more, doesn't mean he can do everything. That's why I don't think that the character deaths are going to be Virmire-like, besides the fact that it's treading old ground. Shep isn't God, sometimes even he is helpless to stop something from happening.

Shepard =/= Space Jesus

 
 

never said   Shepard = space Jesus     

What I am saying that is  -  the type  of  death and impact you are asking for  is not going to work in a  game where the player can choose how the main character can and will react.   Benezia,   Saren  and the Council  are   at the end  very minor  emotional investments for you player  compared to Ashley , Garrus , Liara  etc etc.    

Its not going to work because

player A  is going to  have  Shepard react  like X 

Player B is going to have Shepard react like  Y

and  player  C is going  have Shepard react like  Z .

What makes a character death emotionally impacting is the affect  on the  main Character  and the  reaction of the make main character to the death.   If  player A   can make  his/her  Shepard take  option X  which equals to Shepard going  "Oh well tough ****.. moving on" Emotional impact is lost.  

 

Then he... doesn't choose option X? I'm not sure what the problem is. Shepard's responses have always been limited. Reactions X,Y, and Z are fine because Shepard usually doesn't have more than that amount of reactions to any situation. It's less about how it makes Shepard feel and more about how the player as Shepard feels.

[nitefyre410]

Sajuro wrote...

For all of the people complaining about forced deaths, I have a question of what if it was in a scenario in which one of your squadmates chose to sacrifice themselves for Shepard in much the same way he did for Joker in the start ME2.
Say before the penultimate mission, Shepard is flying towards a base or some Reaper Central station they have to lug around because of not being able to use the citadel. Suddenly a Reaper picks up on the Normandy and attacks it, wrecking the ship like the collector ship did. Shepard gets injured in the explosion and one of the squadmates like Zaeed gets Shepard up and helps him walk, saying something like "I'm gud damn tired of being the only one to survive Shepard." As the normandy is breaking apart he takes you to the kodiak which your squad is using to escape and shoves you inside of the Kodiak before closing the hatch from the outside and punching someone when they try to get in because Zaeed knows the ship won't last much longer. Then as the Kodiak escapes the Normandy blows up with Zaeed or whatever squadmate on board and the Kodiak is able to make it to the Reaper station.

 

Me personal I would be cool with that  but  would the rest of the   fan base going to like( and you know how fan bases espicailly here on the BSN)   no most like not  becasue   they are going to say  "  Our choice had not meaningful impact."     I am not against forced death at all - I just don't think it will fly with what Bioware  established as the standard with  Mass Effect being all about  choice.   Hell I am for Zaeed going out in blaze  glory me and my squad kicking Reapers and having shots in remembernce.    Still that is depend in my  Shepard reaction - you Shepard could just shrug it off and say  Zaeed  was  an  onary old bastard and told lame ass war stories and he/she hopes Zaeed rots in hell.

[crimzontearz]

Mike2640 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

because some of us replay the game dozens of times

forcing a LI death or Shepard's death on the player would prevent many of us from replaying

Like I could never bring myself to replay "the darkness"

So do I. Watched Buffy from start to finish loads of times, and still loved it despite how trigger happy Joss Whedon gets with the characters near the end of the series.

Replayed Mass Effect a buch too. Still enjoy it, even though Kaiden/Ashley dies every time.

Yes, but Ash/Kaiden gives you a CHOICE. Thus...people who want their LI/favorite character to die can have it...and those who don't can sacrifice the other one......

in the suicide mission you can surgically kill off characters for preference or dramatic effect....if you don't then you can have them all survive

see where I am going?

I see what your saying, but that's a little Meta don't you think? Plus that's simulated drama. The player that lets Zieed get killed on the ship can imagine it's a very tragic scene but he'll still always know that he orchestrated it that way. It's the difference between watching a friend get shot during a mugging, and smothering him with a pillow yourself while he's in a coma and pretending the bullet killed him. Very different emotions.

how many times did Bioware tell us that this is "our" story?

There is nothing wrong with Meta if helps you tell the story YOU desire

also.....the "shock" moment kinda dies off after the first playthrough...then it becomes tedious especially is no choice (Virmire-like choice I mean) is given..or aggrivating to the point some people just do not want to replay anymore.

[nitefyre410]

Mike2640 wrote...

*snip*

Then he... doesn't choose option X? I'm not sure what the problem is. Shepard's responses have always been limited. Reactions X,Y, and Z are fine because Shepard usually doesn't have more than that amount of reactions to any situation. It's less about how it makes Shepard feel and more about how the player as Shepard feels.

 


Right but when you're writing and trying to create something  that  has emotional impact  you need the main character involved to react in  way that allows the viewer, player, reader etc to empathize with character. If the player has controll over how Shepard   reactions and choose the option that has Shepard  shrug his shoulders and say  "oh well"   The character death that just happened has  lost its  emotional impact.   

We are the  dictate how  Shepards feels(as Bioware has designed the game)   and if  Character A dies and I never had any like or ties to character A then I as the player  who is in control of  shepard feels  is going to have not react to Character A death so... no impact.


 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 31 août 2011 - 12:20 .

[crimzontearz]

mopotter wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

because some of us replay the game dozens of times

forcing a LI death or Shepard's death on the player would prevent many of us from replaying

Like I could never bring myself to replay "the darkness"

Up to a point I agree.  I do not want the LI to die in every re play becuase like you I'd stop playing if all 10 current Shepards lost their LI because of a forced death.    But I can handle the LI dieing if I've messed up something.  True, I'll probably go back and fix whatever it was, but I could do that.  

I would dislike another vs choice.  Been there done that and I would dislike deaths that you can't controle somehow.  I'm playing a video game for fun, not for real life experiences.  

which brings us back to our original point

choice. You can CHOOSE to let them die by not fixing what you ***ed up......or......you can choose to go back and fix it because it is, indeed, YOUR story

[Lunatic LK47]

Mike2640 wrote...


I still love Tara from Buffy the Vampire Slayer even though I know she has one of the more shocking and sudden deaths i've seen on television. I enjoy all the time she gets and I love how her death affects the story. I don't know why you wouldn't want to get invested in the character, even if they die. Why wouldn't you, especially now that the series is ending? Either way you're not going to see these characters again. Your time with Bastila wasn't "Short lived." You had the better part of a twenty-hour-or-longer game to get to know her and enjoy her character. With Mass Effect you've had one or two full games to get to know these characters. Why would their death negate the experiences you have with them in beforehand?

Because it makes the fact that you invested all of this time caring about the character only to end up being for nothing? What's the point of investing in a journey if the destination is sub-par? If I have 24 Mass Effect files with a Shepard going for a happy ending with an LI, I should be able to do so instead of having a forced death a la Vanilla Fallout 3 shoved down my throat or a better example, Red Dead Redemption (seriously, what's the point of trying to redeem John Marston if he was going to get offed from the get-go? And no, I don't considering playing as his sub-par son as a fitting end, and all that told me is "Marston sacrificed himself for nothing".). ,

That's why I'm thinking it will be a situation where Shepard literally could not save them. We know some of the previous Squaddies wont be full time members again. To bring back my Mordin example from a few pages ago, while Mordin is helping with the Genophage cure on Tuchanka Shepard is in deep space or Illium/somewhere else and finds out about the Reaper's bombarding Tuchanka only after it's too late. He may be able to share some final words with Mordin, but he physically can do nothing to stop him from dying.

It's not unreasonable for Shep to not be able to save him in a scenario like that, and it's not taking away a choice from the players because it was something that they couldn't possibly have done anything about in the first place.

The only characters I can see dying without batting an eye would be Mordin, Samara, the DLC characters, and maybe Thane, but even with Thane on the chopping block, forcing a plot-related date would incite riots, and as far as I know, I'd rather see Thane die from his disease AFTER THE GAME or if we're lucky enough, seeing him cured. As for the Genophage cure proposal you're hell-bent on implementing, all you're telling us is "Don't bother caring about the Krogan," no matter how you're spinning the words.  All you're asking for is telling us "Your choices in helping the Krogan is meaningless, since the Reapers are going to off them anyway."

[mopotter]

Sajuro wrote...

For all of the people complaining about forced deaths, I have a question of what if it was in a scenario in which one of your squadmates chose to sacrifice themselves for Shepard in much the same way he did for Joker in the start ME2.
Say before the penultimate mission, Shepard is flying towards a base or some Reaper Central station they have to lug around because of not being able to use the citadel. Suddenly a Reaper picks up on the Normandy and attacks it, wrecking the ship like the collector ship did. Shepard gets injured in the explosion and one of the squadmates like Zaeed gets Shepard up and helps him walk, saying something like "I'm gud damn tired of being the only one to survive Shepard." As the normandy is breaking apart he takes you to the kodiak which your squad is using to escape and shoves you inside of the Kodiak before closing the hatch from the outside and punching someone when they try to get in because Zaeed knows the ship won't last much longer. Then as the Kodiak escapes the Normandy blows up with Zaeed or whatever squadmate on board and the Kodiak is able to make it to the Reaper station.

No, would rather not.  Played DA:O good game, but having someone always have to do the ritual or get killed, got old rather fast.  Stopped playing it.  Still playing ME 1 and 2.  

If they did do this, it would have to be a non LI option for me to accept and then it reeks of VS.  Leave me behind Shepard, No leave me behind.  

I'm sure whatever they end up doing will have things I love and things I hate, but I hope we will have choices in how events progress.

[nitefyre410]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
*snip*

 better example, Red Dead Redemption (seriously, what's the point of trying to redeem John Marston if he was going to get offed from the get-go? And no, I don't considering playing as his sub-par son as a fitting end, and all that told me is "Marston sacrificed himself for nothing".). ,

 Oh there is a lot  but   that is a discussion for another theard at another time. Though  I see your point  and your reaction is exactly how I  see the rest of the  fanbase reacting if the Bioware did something like that  with a LI or Squadmate in ME 3.  

[crimzontearz]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
*snip*

 better example, Red Dead Redemption (seriously, what's the point of trying to redeem John Marston if he was going to get offed from the get-go? And no, I don't considering playing as his sub-par son as a fitting end, and all that told me is "Marston sacrificed himself for nothing".). ,

 Oh there is a lot  but   that is a discussion for another theard at another time. Though  I see your point  and your reaction is exactly how I  see the rest of the  fanbase reacting if the Bioware did something like that  with a LI or Squadmate in ME 3.  

or worse with Shepard

[Someone With Mass]

crimzontearz wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
*snip*

 better example, Red Dead Redemption (seriously, what's the point of trying to redeem John Marston if he was going to get offed from the get-go? And no, I don't considering playing as his sub-par son as a fitting end, and all that told me is "Marston sacrificed himself for nothing".). ,

 Oh there is a lot  but   that is a discussion for another theard at another time. Though  I see your point  and your reaction is exactly how I  see the rest of the  fanbase reacting if the Bioware did something like that  with a LI or Squadmate in ME 3.  

or worse with Shepard

Though, if it's absolutely necessary, I'd rather let Shepard bite the dust than anyone else.

I would like to be able to avoid the whole thing, though.