Hi, does anyone know any work-around to give a polymorphed creature the capacity to use certain spells or feats???
Wid Shape Special abilities
Débuté par
mogromon
, août 30 2011 09:37
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#2
Posté 30 août 2011 - 09:47
The Fred
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Spells, you can do. The polymorph needs to be flagged as a Wild Shape, and you need the Natural Spell feat.
As for feats, there isn't one, to my knowledge. I think this is something Pain is working on. I had the idea of a GUI which popped up whilst you were polymorphed to let you use special abilities, but haven't acted on it. I think others have had the same idea and might be working on similar things, though.
As for feats, there isn't one, to my knowledge. I think this is something Pain is working on. I had the idea of a GUI which popped up whilst you were polymorphed to let you use special abilities, but haven't acted on it. I think others have had the same idea and might be working on similar things, though.
#3
Posté 30 août 2011 - 09:56
mogromon
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uhmm, i was refering to spell-like abilities or supernatural abilities, which basically for the game are feats. The GUI idea is nice, though i have no clue how to implement one. Is there any guide???
#4
Posté 30 août 2011 - 11:15
mogromon
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or maybe re-enable the hotbar would be easier, maybe SetGUIObjectDisabled but dont know what should be used in the second and third parameters
#5
Posté 31 août 2011 - 12:14
MasterChanger
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mogromon wrote...
uhmm, i was refering to spell-like abilities or supernatural abilities, which basically for the game are feats. The GUI idea is nice, though i have no clue how to implement one. Is there any guide???
They can be feats, but if one uses a custom GUI to use them they don't have to be. Having them be feats linked to spell IDs is one of the easier ways, though. Kaedrin had talked about doing a GUI for this at some point, but AFAIK he's moved away from doing any more wildshape correction stuff as it's a real headache.
For GUI guides, you should absolutely start with Lance Botelle's XML tutorial. Rich Taylor of OEI kept blog on NWN2 UI coding. Grinning Fool has a good UI reference that tells you what attributes and elements are available (sadly without comments on usage since it's auto-generated). For an important advanced topic, check out Sunjammer's Dynamic UIListbox Tutorial. I've used all of these resources to learn some GUI coding.
Modifié par MasterChanger, 31 août 2011 - 12:17 .
#6
Posté 31 août 2011 - 05:25
mogromon
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i havent read sunjammer's guide, but for what i read so far the idea would be to implement a grid with a lot of available feats(also spell-like and supernatural abilities) as buttons , maybe the combat ones (like knockdown or stunning fist), druid specific, and polymorph creatures special abilities. I dont know if this can be done via a script that decides what buttons are added. The idea would be that each button would use a executes a very simple script that respects the uses per day and if the character really has the feat
void main()
{
ActionUseFeat(nFeat, oTarget)
}
So its neccesary that each button has assigned the corresponding nFeat number, and is able to send the oTarget information. If a script can decide which button can be added it would be a lot easier to add custom feats or feats from other classes, like monk ones (that is an classic multiclass for druids)
So far i have took the work of Reeron (to fix the extra slots by ability bonus) and CuteUnit work that allows to keep item properties, and the different types of AC. The work i've done allow the different type of save bonuses to be kept and accumulated as per game mechanics. Also fix the bracer AC bonus (armor) and gauntlet AC bonus (deflection) to be kept separately. Added Wilding Clasp property (via a 3-level druid spell that works as a item property bonus feat that can be added and removed at will, so it doesnt count againts the item propertys limit) and a Wild property (also via a item property bonus feat but added using the crafting system). Only items with the wilding clasp property will be copied to the creature. Armor or shield with the Wild property will give the creature it's base AC and enhancement as armor AC and shield AC (if a monk, duelist, invisible blade or sacred fist benefits from the Wild property, an equivalent AC dodge penalty effect will be applied to compensate the bonus they received from their classes). Gloves give the attack and damage bonus to the creature weapons so while fighting with natural weapons you get those bonuses. Also added a parcial fix to the extra spell slots given by items, the script checks for them, and if the character can benefit from them they are added as their corresponding bonus feat before polymorphing, and are removed when you regain your original form (doesnt add or remove any bonus spell slot feat you really have), the problem is that it only work for a one spell slot per level per class, doesnt work for 9 level spells, and only works for classes that memorize spells like the druid or cleric.
Also added work arounds for the sacred fist problem and the weapon finesse bug. I've redone the hidden item of the elemental shapes so they give damage reduction as they should, and the character also gets the feats of the elemental creature as per pnp. If the custom GUI can be done the next would be to remove the special qualities from the hidden item because the druid doesnt get any special quality (except elemental shape) as per 3.5 rules. Magical beast wild shape allows to keep the supernatural abilities (the phase spider doesnt get the vermin traits like mind-affecting immunity but can become etheral at will) and dragon shape gains the extraordinary and supernatural abilities. Wild shape always grants the extraordinary special attacks of the new form and allows to use the spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities of the original form (except breath weapons and gaze). Also looses the extraordinary attacks of the original form (like flurry of blows or rage), so what atari did by disabling the hotbar going almost against a lot of rules, but maybe was the easier way not to let the characters to exploit some things like using the heal skill or tools or magic items
void main()
{
ActionUseFeat(nFeat, oTarget)
}
So its neccesary that each button has assigned the corresponding nFeat number, and is able to send the oTarget information. If a script can decide which button can be added it would be a lot easier to add custom feats or feats from other classes, like monk ones (that is an classic multiclass for druids)
So far i have took the work of Reeron (to fix the extra slots by ability bonus) and CuteUnit work that allows to keep item properties, and the different types of AC. The work i've done allow the different type of save bonuses to be kept and accumulated as per game mechanics. Also fix the bracer AC bonus (armor) and gauntlet AC bonus (deflection) to be kept separately. Added Wilding Clasp property (via a 3-level druid spell that works as a item property bonus feat that can be added and removed at will, so it doesnt count againts the item propertys limit) and a Wild property (also via a item property bonus feat but added using the crafting system). Only items with the wilding clasp property will be copied to the creature. Armor or shield with the Wild property will give the creature it's base AC and enhancement as armor AC and shield AC (if a monk, duelist, invisible blade or sacred fist benefits from the Wild property, an equivalent AC dodge penalty effect will be applied to compensate the bonus they received from their classes). Gloves give the attack and damage bonus to the creature weapons so while fighting with natural weapons you get those bonuses. Also added a parcial fix to the extra spell slots given by items, the script checks for them, and if the character can benefit from them they are added as their corresponding bonus feat before polymorphing, and are removed when you regain your original form (doesnt add or remove any bonus spell slot feat you really have), the problem is that it only work for a one spell slot per level per class, doesnt work for 9 level spells, and only works for classes that memorize spells like the druid or cleric.
Also added work arounds for the sacred fist problem and the weapon finesse bug. I've redone the hidden item of the elemental shapes so they give damage reduction as they should, and the character also gets the feats of the elemental creature as per pnp. If the custom GUI can be done the next would be to remove the special qualities from the hidden item because the druid doesnt get any special quality (except elemental shape) as per 3.5 rules. Magical beast wild shape allows to keep the supernatural abilities (the phase spider doesnt get the vermin traits like mind-affecting immunity but can become etheral at will) and dragon shape gains the extraordinary and supernatural abilities. Wild shape always grants the extraordinary special attacks of the new form and allows to use the spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities of the original form (except breath weapons and gaze). Also looses the extraordinary attacks of the original form (like flurry of blows or rage), so what atari did by disabling the hotbar going almost against a lot of rules, but maybe was the easier way not to let the characters to exploit some things like using the heal skill or tools or magic items
#7
Posté 31 août 2011 - 08:22
The Fred
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That's pretty cool. I was going to use Reeron's and Kaedrin's fixed in my module, but then I thought that to be honest, your +3 flaming longsword and Circlet of Blasting probably shouldn't keep working when you're polymorphed... adding Wildling Clasps in one form or another would be a pretty good idea, though.
As for the feats, I don't know if you actually can use them whilst polymorphed. It might just be that all the buttons are disabled, but it's worth checking. If you can then it should be possible to bypass the UI, either on the proper hotbar or with a custom one.
As for the feats, I don't know if you actually can use them whilst polymorphed. It might just be that all the buttons are disabled, but it's worth checking. If you can then it should be possible to bypass the UI, either on the proper hotbar or with a custom one.
#8
Posté 01 septembre 2011 - 04:14
mogromon
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doing some tests i found out that SetupHotbar has 120 slots, the 121 slot is considered a toggle mode bar button. i found out that u can drag a feat in the 121 slot and search dissapears in the mode bar and its replaced by the feat icon, u can click it and the mouse pointer changes form, but is greyeand you cant click to select the target creature. I'm pretty sure buttons works because only hotbar buttons (the 120 slots) are disabled, if you try to click the camera buttons (explore, strategy) buttons next to the hotbar that are also added via hotbar.xml you can check they are still functional.
Another idea i had, was to create a small GUI that consists in a small imput box and a button that allows to select a creature and executes a script(OnLeftClick=UIObject_Input_ActionTargetScript), in the imput box you type the number of the feat you want to use and somehow that information is also sent to the script. the problem is that is not very nice to keep typing the things you want to get done, and a lot of people would consider game breaking, but still an improvement. The limitation is that we would have to trust in the honor system so people dont use prohibited abilities
Another idea i had, was to create a small GUI that consists in a small imput box and a button that allows to select a creature and executes a script(OnLeftClick=UIObject_Input_ActionTargetScript), in the imput box you type the number of the feat you want to use and somehow that information is also sent to the script. the problem is that is not very nice to keep typing the things you want to get done, and a lot of people would consider game breaking, but still an improvement. The limitation is that we would have to trust in the honor system so people dont use prohibited abilities
#9
Posté 01 septembre 2011 - 04:38
mogromon
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forgot to mention that the was testing the basic idea of ActionUseFeat(nFeat, oTarget) with knockdown while polymorphed and works as expected, even the cooldown is taken in consideration
#10
Posté 01 septembre 2011 - 07:54
MasterChanger
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mogromon wrote...
doing some tests i found out that SetupHotbar has 120 slots, the 121 slot is considered a toggle mode bar button. i found out that u can drag a feat in the 121 slot and search dissapears in the mode bar and its replaced by the feat icon, u can click it and the mouse pointer changes form, but is greyeand you cant click to select the target creature. I'm pretty sure buttons works because only hotbar buttons (the 120 slots) are disabled, if you try to click the camera buttons (explore, strategy) buttons next to the hotbar that are also added via hotbar.xml you can check they are still functional.
What is SetupHotbar? Is this a Nwscript function?
Another idea i had, was to create a small GUI that consists in a small imput box and a button that allows to select a creature and executes a script(OnLeftClick=UIObject_Input_ActionTargetScript), in the imput box you type the number of the feat you want to use and somehow that information is also sent to the script. the problem is that is not very nice to keep typing the things you want to get done, and a lot of people would consider game breaking, but still an improvement. The limitation is that we would have to trust in the honor system so people dont use prohibited abilities
Entering numbers would be extremely user-unfriendly. A GUI could certainly be created that uses buttons for feats the PC already has or that are granted by the form. This would take some work but would be quite worthwhile IMO.
#11
Posté 01 septembre 2011 - 09:15
mogromon
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SetupHotbar is used in .xml files to create the hotbar, i have no clue where to find more information about that .xml functions.
already created the gui for entering the number of the feats, works like i charm, except for drop menus (like the Wild Shape feat that allows to select different animals) so u cant select anything in this cases. I couldnt agree more with you, makes me feel like using MS-DOS but at least is a huge improvement to the previous situation (not being able to use any feat). So far i dont have the knowledge to create a GUI with specific buttons. but like you said it would be worthwhile
already created the gui for entering the number of the feats, works like i charm, except for drop menus (like the Wild Shape feat that allows to select different animals) so u cant select anything in this cases. I couldnt agree more with you, makes me feel like using MS-DOS but at least is a huge improvement to the previous situation (not being able to use any feat). So far i dont have the knowledge to create a GUI with specific buttons. but like you said it would be worthwhile
#12
Posté 02 septembre 2011 - 03:52
The Fred
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There's an argument you would want to add the buttons "manually" anyway, since only some feats should be useable whilst wildshaped. Like, why would you want to wildshape whilst wildshaped? Knockdown and stuff, yes, but a lot of feats are meant to be spells, so probably shouldn't be available. Ideally you would have a column in the feats.2da file and just comb that at the start of the module to cache them, but writing up a list shouldn't be too hard if you're just doing all the combat feats (KD, Called Shot, Disarm etc).
#13
Posté 03 septembre 2011 - 02:13
mogromon
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i've doing some research about the official rules (i prefer to get as close as possible to the rules). Taking into account the Official D&D Updates, Wild Shape is based in Alternate Form (not based in the Polymorph spell like the original Player handbook states).
Alternate Form states in the relevant lines and taking into account the monster manual errata:
- The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature). (1)
- The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary attacks of its new form. (2)
- The creature retains the special qualities of its original form, it does not gain any special qualities of its new form. (3)
- The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or supernatural attacks of its new form. (4)
From (1) and (4) I conclude that everything the feat system in NWN2 gives you is usable (except Assasin or Blackguard spells since in pnp those are real spells). Pure feat attacks (like knockdown or Whirlwind attack) are not consider extraordinary attacks as far as i know so they are usable. A few conditions can be set in the script that uses ActiveUseFeat since it only works when you have the feat and it has remaining uses just like the hotbar, those exceptions would be for example the Breath weapon of the Dragon Disciple, Stunning Fist (pnp rules say it only works with unarmed strike) and Flurry of Blows (can't work with natural attacks, they are not an unarmed strike nor a special monk weapon) and like you said there is no point in using wildshape whilst wildshape and it may even have some unwanted consequences.
From (2) you should get an speed improvement that wild shape doesnt do and you should get some special attacks (a modified rage for the badger, trip for the wolf, ferocity for boar, improved grab for the bear to name a few)
From (3), you don't get spell resistance, immunities, or damage reduction from the new form.
So, atari did a really poor job with the druid
It would be better to create buttons based in every activable, non persistant feat you have, im analyzing the filter used in JEG's Training Module (for adding feats) hoping that the answer is there, since buttons are created via script as far as i can tell
Alternate Form states in the relevant lines and taking into account the monster manual errata:
- The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature). (1)
- The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary attacks of its new form. (2)
- The creature retains the special qualities of its original form, it does not gain any special qualities of its new form. (3)
- The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or supernatural attacks of its new form. (4)
From (1) and (4) I conclude that everything the feat system in NWN2 gives you is usable (except Assasin or Blackguard spells since in pnp those are real spells). Pure feat attacks (like knockdown or Whirlwind attack) are not consider extraordinary attacks as far as i know so they are usable. A few conditions can be set in the script that uses ActiveUseFeat since it only works when you have the feat and it has remaining uses just like the hotbar, those exceptions would be for example the Breath weapon of the Dragon Disciple, Stunning Fist (pnp rules say it only works with unarmed strike) and Flurry of Blows (can't work with natural attacks, they are not an unarmed strike nor a special monk weapon) and like you said there is no point in using wildshape whilst wildshape and it may even have some unwanted consequences.
From (2) you should get an speed improvement that wild shape doesnt do and you should get some special attacks (a modified rage for the badger, trip for the wolf, ferocity for boar, improved grab for the bear to name a few)
From (3), you don't get spell resistance, immunities, or damage reduction from the new form.
So, atari did a really poor job with the druid
It would be better to create buttons based in every activable, non persistant feat you have, im analyzing the filter used in JEG's Training Module (for adding feats) hoping that the answer is there, since buttons are created via script as far as i can tell
#14
Posté 12 novembre 2013 - 08:31
Araedros
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sorry for the thread necromancy, but I'm really trying to find a way for my druid to use her elemental form spellike abilities (whirlwind, drown). is there any mod that will allow me to use the hotbar since the abilities are there but i can't activate them?
