13 réponses à ce sujet

[nuculerman]

I've heard how rogues are second only to bloodmage/AW in broken classes yet I fail to see how.  My rogue is terrible and I don't know why.  Please help.

My build;

Level 17 Rogue: Duelist/Assassin

Stats:
SR: 30
DX: 42
WP: 15
MC: 11
CN: 31
CT: 21
Armor:18
Defense: 87
Attack: 92
Damage: 23.2/23.2

Skills:
Expert Coercion
Expert Survival
Master Combat Training
Stealing
Poison Making

Spells/Talents:
Exploit Weakness
Coup De Grace
Lethality
Mechanical Expertise
Combat Stealth
Dual-Weapon Mastery
Cripple
Dwarven Resistance

Armor:
Leather Helm (inscribed)
Pushback Strikers (+5% Melee Critical chance)
Varathorn's Armor
Chainmail Boots (Drakeskin)

Jewelry:
Magister's Cinch (reduces hostility, +10% to healing effects)
Reflection (+1 const., +15% to healing effects)
Sliverleaf (+1 Cunning)
Duskring (+1 Cunning, -1 Str)

Weapons:
Axe of the Grey (+3% Melee crit chance, +2 armor penetration, +6 damage v. Darkspawn, chance of paralysis, +4 electricty damage)
Aodh( +3% Melee Crit Chance, +20% fire resistace, +1 fire damage, chance of paralysis, +5 Fire damage)

I was reading before about guys soloing nighmare with a rogue build, and guys getting 150 single target DPS.  I'd love to know how.  I'm playing on hard and I've had to bump it down to normal on about 5 fights already.  I'd have to spend 280 gold to get better weapons.  And I can't really see any skills that will make such a huge difference in DPS.  My greatest damage ever dealth was 67.  Combat stealth isn't that great IMHO because I miss that hit 50% of the time anyway, and it doesn't work in boss fights.  The strategy guide says "daggers, daggers, daggers," but my axes are better at cri chance and armor penetration due to stats than any dagger I've come across except two of them I could buy for 130G and 150G.  I've even tried to cheat to get the gold and see if that makes such a huge difference but there's no file called "daorigins.exe" on my computer.  The only file that comes close is "daoriginsLauncher.exe" and when I tried to edit that files "target" along with the other file I still can't cheat.  So I'm stuck with my rogue, who in my opinion, is just a nerfed dual wield warrior right now.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT:  I should also mention that when I had to duel Loghain I had to put it on easy and use four healing pots.  Something is clearly not right with my rogue.  My mage dueled loghain on hard and Loghain couldn't get within 10 feet of him.


 

Modifié par nuculerman, 21 novembre 2009 - 09:44 .

[beauville]

Well, the Lethality is wasted because your cun is only one point higher than str. Second, you don't have momentum which is generally considered the most important DW skill.. Either drop lethality and respec with high str or get cun up to 50ish and drop str and dex. Also dual weap mastery isn't useful with daggers.

Just some quick thoughts...

[nuculerman]

I had my str that high so I could wear varathorn's armor. I didn't realize lethality let me ignore str. That's a real bummer.



Also for dual weapon, I did it so I could use both axes which are the best rogue weapons in the game that I've come across that you don't have to buy. I could buy a better axe for 130 gold, or two better daggers for 280 gold total. I have no idea how to make that much gold. I've been doing every side quest trying to get that much and I'm up to 120g.



I realized once I got some of those skills that I had messed up a little, but I couldn't fathom how my rogue was SO nerfed. It sucks I put 42 hours into him but I guess I'll have to restart it, because obviously he's way nerfed.



Thanks for the tips.

[nuculerman]

also, what stat influences to hit? Is it dex or str? Is it cunning with lethality? My rogues biggest problem is that he misses too often for crits to really be a big deal.

[TheEndlessGrey]

It doesn't let you ignore strength requirements for weapons and armor, it lets you substitute cunning for strength in the damage calculation. If you're using light armor and daggers, your strength requirements are very low as daggers have a dexterity requirement and the T7 armors only require 20 str.

[Inarai]

Most people only outfit Rogues in light armour, which requires only 20 STR at most. Genreally, a dagger rogue will backstab faster, and with the DEX fix, their damage will be improved, as well - the fast attack speed is really quite excellent if you have paralyze wounds or similar, too. It also means you get more play out of damage runes or poison coatings or damage improving weapon spells, like Frost Weapons.



And do NOT discount talents from earlier in a chain. The usefulness of DWS is never lost, and Riposte is wonderful. Combine Riposte and Coup de Grace, and you are a single-combat machine. Dirty fighting gets you some extra stun-time after they recover from Riposte, as well. ou can pick up Olaf's Cheese Knife in Honnleath, which is a GREAT dagger.



As for to hit, both STR and DEX seem to have equal influence. Whether that switches with Lethality I am not certain, but anecdotally, I'd expect - my rogue's hit rate improved when I got it, or seems to have.

[Sereaph502]

So then you guys are saying it's pointless for a rogue to get strength to use longswords etc or to get dual weapon mastery?



And before you guys ask: No, I'm not downloading the hotfix for dex. Bioware can patch it into the game themselves, I don't feel the need to rely on a third party source.

[metatrans]

strength based rogue build isn't pointless at all. it is, however, quite different than a Cunning based build. it will use different talents and different stat points.



the OP's build looks like a botched middle road between them.



Strength build wouldn't get Lethality and wouldn't increase cunning over 22 (minimum for Master Stealth). It would also stop Dex at 36 (minimum for Dual Wield Mastery). Probably also doesn't benefit very much from Assassin abilities, which scale with Cunning, since you'd have a low cunning.



Cunning build would stop strength at 20 (for tier 7 light armor). you'd go to about 40 in Dex for the attack+defense score (and for dagger damage if you've installed the hotfix) and then dump the rest into Cunning. you should have like 50+ or even 60+ Cunning by the end of the game. Cunning build can basically only equip dual daggers also, which is fine since your attack speed is more important than anything else due to the way certain game mechanics work.



finally, regardless of your build type, you HAVE TO HAVE MOMENTUM. its ridiculously overpowered. no dual wield character should ever go without it.

[Rynas]

If you're going dual fullsize weapons I'd recommend focusing solely on Str and leaving Cun at a minimum, even with Assassin. There just aren't enough points to go around. You only need 22 Cun for the highest-tier talents, so you can leave it somewhere below 20 and let the bonus attributes you get from questing (including something you're about to run into in the Circle) bring you up to 22.



At this point you could have something like 15 more points in Str than you do, so you're basically doing damage as if you were five levels lower than you are.



I guess there's not much you can do at this point, but once you're done with the Circle I'd recommend downloading the respec mod and re-distributing your stats. Unless you want to start over at level 7 or so...



Also, to answer your other question, Str and Dex both increase your hit chance (Attack) in equal amounts per point. Cunning doesn't increase your Attack, even with Lethality.

[Rynas]

metatrans wrote...

strength based rogue build isn't pointless at all. it is, however, quite different than a Cunning based build. it will use different talents and different stat points.

the OP's build looks like a botched middle road between them.

Strength build wouldn't get Lethality and wouldn't increase cunning over 22 (minimum for Master Stealth). It would also stop Dex at 36 (minimum for Dual Wield Mastery). Probably also doesn't benefit very much from Assassin abilities, which scale with Cunning, since you'd have a low cunning.

Cunning build would stop strength at 20 (for tier 7 light armor). you'd go to about 40 in Dex for the attack+defense score (and for dagger damage if you've installed the hotfix) and then dump the rest into Cunning. you should have like 50+ or even 60+ Cunning by the end of the game. Cunning build can basically only equip dual daggers also, which is fine since your attack speed is more important than anything else due to the way certain game mechanics work.

finally, regardless of your build type, you HAVE TO HAVE MOMENTUM. its ridiculously overpowered. no dual wield character should ever go without it.

Agreed, except that stopping at 20 Str means you need to use daggers, and if you use daggers, you really need to download the dex fix. Just another thing to keep in mind...

[Scyles]

I actually got away with wearing my tier 7 leather without having to put any points into strength at all. You can gain a few points in the Circle of Mages quest, then you can purchase the belt that adds +2 to all attributes and wield a barbarian mace for another +1. There are a few other items that add to strength if you require more.

[Yuusei]

Might I direct you here:



http://social.biowar...66/index/223777

[TheEndlessGrey]

Sereaph502 wrote...

So then you guys are saying it's pointless for a rogue to get strength to use longswords etc or to get dual weapon mastery?

And before you guys ask: No, I'm not downloading the hotfix for dex. Bioware can patch it into the game themselves, I don't feel the need to rely on a third party source.

Not at all, just answering the question about Lethality and Strength/Cunning.  There isn't a lot of point in spreading between the three, but Str/Dex with the bare minimum Cunning is just as viable as Dex/Cun with the bare minimum Strength.  They play very differently though.  The dex/cun type will probably want to follow the advice of the dual dagger and light leather types, let a tankish warrior get aggro, and backstab the crap out of things.  The str/dex type will want to put on some heavier armor, grab some slower but harder hitting weapons, invest more heavily in the dual weapon line, and basically play like a non-tank warrior.  You don't need to be flanking your target, but it does help.