54 réponses à ce sujet

[naughty99]

Chinese scientists are developing a plan to capture a small asteroid, "2008EA9," which will pass within a million km of Earth in 2049. 2008EA9 has a very similar orbital velocity as Earth's.

"Baoyin and co calculate that it could be fired into Earth orbit by changing its velocity by 410 metres per second.

This nudge should place the asteroid in an orbit at about twice the distance of the Moon. From there it can be studied and mined, they say.

Source: http://www.technolog...og/arxiv/27112/

Is it just me or does this seem like it has the makings of a very bad idea?

[Ulous]

I say they should go for it, the idea is perfectly sound and If not I look forward to watching the rest of you die with my by then grey beard.

[naughty99]

Scanning....

"anomaly detected" --

[KenKenpachi]

Ulous wrote...

I say they should go for it, the idea is perfectly sound and If not I look forward to watching the rest of you die with my by then grey beard.

Pretty much this. We either do what the Chinese will be, given they are planning to go to the moon and build a base on it soon, while the Russians are going to Mars. And thus gaining a foothold for near limitless resources. Or we all kill each other in  a few years for some 3rd world **** hole on Earth.

[Cutlass Jack]

"I can't imagine what could possibly go wrong."

[Funkcase]

I dont like to think what will happen then, I will be 58 *shudders* I want to stay young!

Modifié par Funkcase, 31 août 2011 - 09:36 .

[Malanek]

It's a good idea but it says it's only a 10-meter object. That won't even cover the costs if it's primarily gold, which I doubt it is. They need to pick a bigger asteroid.

[Tommy6860]

naughty99 wrote...

Chinese scientists are developing a plan to capture a small asteroid, "2008EA9," which will pass within a million km of Earth in 2049. 2008EA9 has a very similar orbital velocity as Earth's.

"Baoyin and co calculate that it could be fired into Earth orbit by changing its velocity by 410 metres per second.

This nudge should place the asteroid in an orbit at about twice the distance of the Moon. From there it can be studied and mined, they say.

Source: http://www.technolog...og/arxiv/27112/

Is it just me or does this seem like it has the makings of a very bad idea?

It sounds iffy placing soemthing like that in an extra-lunar orbit. But, mining it?? It isn't economically feasible enough for that. Unless they can realistically invent a vehicle that can mine, then transport enough material back to the earth where the cost is offset enough by the value of the material, it's a very bad idea. Maybe in the year 2200+, it would be feasiable from all aspects. 2049, I don't think so.

[KenKenpachi]

Tommy6860 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Chinese scientists are developing a plan to capture a small asteroid, "2008EA9," which will pass within a million km of Earth in 2049. 2008EA9 has a very similar orbital velocity as Earth's.

"Baoyin and co calculate that it could be fired into Earth orbit by changing its velocity by 410 metres per second.

This nudge should place the asteroid in an orbit at about twice the distance of the Moon. From there it can be studied and mined, they say.

Source: http://www.technolog...og/arxiv/27112/

Is it just me or does this seem like it has the makings of a very bad idea?

It sounds iffy placing soemthing like that in an extra-lunar orbit. But, mining it?? It isn't economically feasible enough for that. Unless they can realistically invent a vehicle that can mine, then transport enough material back to the earth where the cost is offset enough by the value of the material, it's a very bad idea. Maybe in the year 2200+, it would be feasiable from all aspects. 2049, I don't think so.

I think your not getting that its a proof of concept mission. Like the Wright Brothers first flight which only went 120 feet, funny how soon after flight reached where it is now. Plus the Chinese plan to have an operational and fully staffed Moon based after its 2014 mission. Same with the Russians. In a Zero G enviroment, there isn't much preventing you from building large ships. Plus unlike the west both nations are prepaired to make sacrifices. So I expect both sides will use Atomic Energy in its spacecraft, rather than a giant tank of fuel.

Besides I can think of a great many applications short of mining for an object in near Lunar Orbit. As the Soviets claimed the FOBS systes was a weather watching station, or how we learned later a great many soviet space stations were armed. Go up to that baby, hollow it out, slap in a few rail guns, some missile systems. And there you go, global domination. As not one city on the globe can defend against a space based threat. Nevermind its usefulness as a habitational facility, or if the resources will be used for before mentioned moon base in the aid of large ship building, thus cutting off the need for materials from Earth. Think more in geo-political goals, and less in consumerism.

Fact is it needs to be looked at and done NOW. If we wait till resource are scare I'ld love to see where we'll get the resources to go after those in space. Like I said its this, and a few dead in space. Or fighting over swaths of Africa, Antartica, and the Artic 15 years from now.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 31 août 2011 - 10:17 .

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Tommy6860 wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Chinese scientists are developing a plan to capture a small asteroid, "2008EA9," which will pass within a million km of Earth in 2049. 2008EA9 has a very similar orbital velocity as Earth's.

"Baoyin and co calculate that it could be fired into Earth orbit by changing its velocity by 410 metres per second.

This nudge should place the asteroid in an orbit at about twice the distance of the Moon. From there it can be studied and mined, they say.

Source: http://www.technolog...og/arxiv/27112/

Is it just me or does this seem like it has the makings of a very bad idea?

It sounds iffy placing soemthing like that in an extra-lunar orbit. But, mining it?? It isn't economically feasible enough for that. Unless they can realistically invent a vehicle that can mine, then transport enough material back to the earth where the cost is offset enough by the value of the material, it's a very bad idea. Maybe in the year 2200+, it would be feasiable from all aspects. 2049, I don't think so.

I wouldn't care if the damn thing destroys the Earth; by then, I will be close to 50 years old. Regardless, though, I think they have better people working on this than a bunch of college students, so "keep your comments in your pocket" (who ever gets the reference gets a cookie ).

[Captain Crash]

Well if that above map is their blueprint I can see them doing brilliantly  


Actually I think it will be good if  there another space race of sorts.  Or at least competition to get people interested again.  I think its a terrible shame the lastest NASA telescope could be scraped because the budget could hit up to $12 billion.  Yet no one seems to be too bothered that the military budget on the US foreign policies currently exceeds an estimated $6 billion a month.   Although I may be digressing to much there.

Regardless ambitious as it may sound, if they start making active and constructive steps towards this plan it will spark a lot of interest and get other nations creating other unique endeavours. 

[OmegaXI]

Wouldn't it just be cheaper to set up a perminent or temporary mining base on mars?

Modifié par OmegaXI, 01 septembre 2011 - 12:26 .

[Homebound]

well played china. theres a soviet russia joke in here somewhere..with russia being the only country building rockets to send people to speiz.

[KenKenpachi]

Captain Crash wrote...

Well if that above map is their blueprint I can see them doing brilliantly  


Actually I think it will be good if  there another space race of sorts.  Or at least competition to get people interested again.  I think its a terrible shame the lastest NASA telescope could be scraped because the budget could hit up to $12 billion.  Yet no one seems to be too bothered that the military budget on the US foreign policies currently exceeds an estimated $6 billion a month.   Although I may be digressing to much there.

Regardless ambitious as it may sound, if they start making active and constructive steps towards this plan it will spark a lot of interest and get other nations creating other unique endeavours. 

Not really, Only America is in any position, but it lacks political, civil, and most importantly, the coin to back it. Russia has always been into space. In fact its set more Records than anyone else in that reguard. So with Russia's current climb you'll seen them again. All it leaves is Japan, who tends to take a gun pointed at them, or 50 years to do anything. Europe is in the same shape as the USA, worse in some respects. Brazil MIGHT could do it, but they have so many socio-political issues it'll be a surprise if it doesn't fragment or fight the other nations around it soon. The Korea's *Both* Could do it, but so long as the US wants South Korea to stand, China, North Korea, they'll worry more on killing each other.

Taiwan could, but once more its security concerns trump that. All other nations on the globe lack the know how, the Capital, or the resources to conduct operations like that. So far only three Nations have put men in space, without a piggyback ride. And only about 12 more can even loft sat birds. The only reason the First Space Race got off was both sides wanted to weaponize it first, as that would be an automatic win. Without those "bonus" options being thrown in, its unlikely we'ld do crap.  Short of the Big three, realistically, I can See Germany, the Korea's, and Japan, maybe joining the race, though unlikely.

If your looking for anytype of innovation or such it will either be as one of the above nations goes tolertarian, **** gets REALLY bad on Earth. Or the Private Sector. Most people just don't care about space, and want to only look at superficial issues.

And it won't spark crap, how so? They already have started. The Chinese have begun massive training and construction for a manned mission to the moon by 2014, or earlier, and have done three of its own manned orbital missions. The Russians have already placed Cosmonauts in chambers to train them for the 9 months of travel to Mars and back, with a planned Manned Mission and Landing by 2014-16.

The US doesn't even have a replacement drawn up for the Shuttle it just got rid of. Europe and Japan have no plans for anysort of manned mission, or probes, the bulk of its space adminstration is connected to military and commerical tasks. North Korea is planning to put a man in Orbit. But short of Chinese assistance I don't see it being more than a 1960's type mission.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 01 septembre 2011 - 12:34 .

[Captain Crash]

Well I wasnt expecting such a in depth analysis of a personal observation I must say. Like my post said I feel that current attitudes to exploration are almost none existant. In the 60's people genuinely loved it!


While an appropriate post you still assume things like I did. Just because it may be a backwards project, its still a show of power. The Chinese are doing this to show they can rival the superpowers. While they have a long way to go it will still turn some heads. I just hope enough heads turn to get people wanting to compete with them. Yes its expensive, but people do silly things for national pride and its where great leaps can be made.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 01 septembre 2011 - 12:41 .

[Homebound]

so basically China pwns the 2nd space race by having the balls to use nuke engines?

[marshalleck]

Captain Crash wrote...

Well I wasnt expecting such a in depth analysis of a personal observation I must say. Like my post said I feel that current attitudes to exploration are almost none existant. In the 60's people genuinely loved it!

No, in the 60s Americans were pissed that the Commies launched Sputnik, and we wanted our own. They were less concerned with scientific and cultural advances than they were about taking a lead in the cold war. 

[Malanek]

Tommy6860 wrote...
It sounds iffy placing soemthing like that in an extra-lunar orbit. But, mining it?? It isn't economically feasible enough for that. Unless they can realistically invent a vehicle that can mine, then transport enough material back to the earth where the cost is offset enough by the value of the material, it's a very bad idea. Maybe in the year 2200+, it would be feasiable from all aspects. 2049, I don't think so.

It might not be as bad as you think. The biggest cost of orbital space missions is the cost involved of the launch and only the re-entry if it is manned. In this case you would probably be looking at repeated unmanned re-entry in whatever sort of container you built to get the minerals down. However as I said before, a 10-meter object isn't worth it.

An alternative would to be to crash hundreds of these into the moon or mars before setting up a base. Not only would you lift the temperature a bit, but you would have tonnes of minneral rich asteroids scattered accross the surface.

Modifié par Malanek999, 01 septembre 2011 - 02:01 .

[Captain Crash]

marshalleck wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Well I wasnt expecting such a in depth analysis of a personal observation I must say. Like my post said I feel that current attitudes to exploration are almost none existant. In the 60's people genuinely loved it!

No, in the 60s Americans were pissed that the Commies launched Sputnik, and we wanted our own. They were less concerned with scientific and cultural advances than they were about taking a lead in the cold war. 

Doesnt that just reinforce my point? afterall it was essentially about a nations pride. Many people still say the greatest moment they ever witnessed was the Moon Landing. Doesnt matter if that for for the science or just to get at the Commies, there was still affection.  Of course some people couldnt care less and just like today not everyone understands the technology or the advancements.  However people can still get behind a project or goal when your reputation is on the line. As I said people do silly things for national pride.

Anyway my original post just assumes that because China is trying something audacious it will get people thinking again.  It may not.  As Ken points out the US capability at the moment is pretty much in shambles and is relying on the international community.  This isnt something that will happen overnight.  It probably wont for at least another decade.  It may not even be for this project. This clearly is a baby step.  All I wanted to point out was that by other nations threatening to supersede the successes of the past I hope it will make people interested again.  It may be for the wrong reasons for some, but for the scientists and engineers it will hopefully lead to further leaps.

[Deathwurm]

I have to just chime in and agree with Ken's earlier point that this really is a "Proof of Concept" mission that's being undertaken. The Mission won't come close to paying for itself in a financial sense, but the Data it will yield will eventually lead to Techs that will refine what they are able to do.

It has to be looked at in a "Amazon Business Model" sort of way...where the threshold for profitability is far off in the distance from it's actual launch.

[KenKenpachi]

Plus if we can overcome hte hurdles to building a skyhook, then getting the resource to Earth isn't a problem. Whoever can grasp this technology first, and actively make use of it, will be to the World what the UK was when it grasped idustrialization and sailing. The Dominate power of the world. Course OIcean exploration and exploration is closer to home, but it carreis enviromental problems, plus we have no clue whats down there.

In anycase I look forward to the new programs underway. Its a shame my own country wants to burry its head in the sand over it.