491 réponses à ce sujet

[Momiji.mii]

I like it! It's pretty close to how I wanted it to be in DA2 from the beginning. Especially if they manage to implement the idea of small visual changes for upgrades, that would be brilliant! One of the things I felt was a major improvement in ME2 compared to the first game was how I was able to design my own space armour. Loved it, and I try to create a different visual look for every playthrough. If something like that will become possible in the next DA game, I'll probably not mind spending some time in the menus for that. Especially if it means not having to spend the rest of the game in the menus, comparing stats and whatsnot.

[Yrkoon]

Il Divo wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

then you don't have to use them.

what's the problem here?

Do I really have to spell it out for you?

I want Morrigan's iconic appearance with full stat customization.

Dragon Age: Origins presents me with two options:

1) Leave her in the original outfit, which has very minimal stats.

2) Give her one other set of robes.

I like neither option one or two. It's that simple. You have not provided a solution by mentioning the alternative set.

So a perfect system would be totally customizable iconic-looking gear.....  which can be removed/replaced by the player if he wants.

Do I  understand what you're saying so far? 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 septembre 2011 - 06:34 .

[esper]

Yrkoon wrote...

esper wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

esper wrote...


And what I like with icon armor is the different than normal body shapes, so I am going to be rude and say a I don't want the option for normal armor to be visible on the companions because that mean that they are forced to have generic body shapes. 

Wrong.  It can be done.   Armor can  resize/re-mesh  to  perfectly reflect a unique body shape.    In  the same manner of  Oghren's dwarven Legion of the Dead armor  managing to fit a giant like   Sten.

Armor can even be re-meshed to  accurately fit a one-armed warrior.  Or a woman with giant ******, or a wirey, tatooed pretty-boy like Fenris.


But  that requires  effort and time, and a  commitment to detail on the part of the developers.    But currently, that seems  to be out of the question, which is why laidlaw came out a few days ago to offer up some  blatantly limited  "work-around".

Yes, but it is costy

For the developer, maybe.    But so   is making unique areas instead of  re-using  the same cave/warehouse a dozen times. (for example)  But if you're ok with low-budget cash grabs, then by all means: continue to be happy. 

esper wrote...
Plus I must admit that I like that the icon amor is canon. It was irritating the one time where I didn't have Morrigan in her rags, but some nice mage clothes (don't remember why) and she pre-landsmeet in da:o still said that the servant was proposing to find something better than her 'rags'.
I know it is egoistic, but I want iconic armors and I don't want other to have the abilities to change out of the armor because if the icon armor is canon it just change give the oppertunity for some small details that generic armor doesn't. (Like Morrigan and Aveline actually mentioning what kind of clothes they wear).

That's fine.   Everyone has their aesthetic tastes.  The only argument I'm making here is that the player should have the choice.

I am quite happy thank you very much. Espically since it seems bioware is going more in a direction I want than one you want

The armors in origin were so boring that I never bothered to change them much and I could still breeze through nightmare. In the visuable department none of them were impressive, compared to da2 where the companions armor added to their personality and  Hawke's were... different enought to make it fun to change them sometimes (They weren't all pretty, but I don't necessary want pretty just distinctive.)

[Wyndham711]

I strongly dislike it. I think that lack, or better yet _removal_ of customization, visual or otherwise, in an RPG can't be justified by any respectable design. In my book it is all about cutting corners and making the developer's life easier in a genre that is very demanding. A well funded, established and experienced developer in particular has no solid excuse here.

[Zanallen]

Yrkoon wrote...

So a perfect system would be totally customizable iconic-looking gear.....  which can be removed/replaced by the player if he wants.

Do I  understand what you're saying so far? 

There is no perfect system. A toggle system that allowed the player to remove the iconic armor to see what is actually equipped might please the majority of the people, but it would also be far and wide the most expensive and time consuming option. And even then it still places constraints on what kind of characters the designers can make because they have to adhere to a generic model for when you removed the iconic looks.

[alex90c]

Il Divo wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

then you don't have to use them.

what's the problem here?

Do I really have to spell it out for you?

I want Morrigan's iconic appearance with full stat customization.

Dragon Age: Origins presents me with two options:

1) Leave her in the original outfit, which has very minimal stats.

2) Give her one other set of robes.

I like neither option one or two. It's that simple. You have not provided a solution by mentioning the alternative set.

ARGHHHHH

WHY DID EVERYONE IGNORE MY PREVIOUS POST

<_<

I posted an idea in some other thread I think, saying that you could
perhaps go to tanners/blacksmiths/whatever and purchase stat
improvements just like you can for the Hawke key. Then it would either
work two ways:

1. "I want to have X amount of critical chance"
-
game charges you an amount based on how much of a stat you want and a
"value" it sets on each stat (so for example +50 attack will come at a
cheaper price than 25% chance per hit to stun)

2. "I want improved critical chance"
-
game charges you set amount for each stat bonus you want, and it
scales, along with the outfit to the companion's level. So an outfit
with a +attack stat may have +13 at level 1 and then +236 at level 25

Not sure what the prices would be, but I think it would enable further customisation.

^this

Modifié par alex90c, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:22 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Well, Bioware painted themselves into this corner. As long as I can can customize my party in look and stats, those who like NPC iconic looks can have whatever they want. The more choice, the better I say. Why anyone would argue for limitations or scalebacks in any consumer product is so far beyond me that I'm almost speechless.

The sad thing is, I see this as only one of a thousand problems that will follow because of DA2's cost-cutting heavy handedness, and this probably won't turn out well for the proponents of choice, customization, deeper inventory, etc.; because the overriding developer focus appears to be cut, cut, cut...throw the slimest of bones to those annoying Origins fans who had the nerve to actually enjoy our franchise's flagship game...cut, cut, cut.

Bioware needs to just man up and decide which group they want [as if their thinly veiled market speech is actually hiding who they've chosen]; the one that showed up for Origins or the significantly smaller one that showed up for DA2. Ne'er will the two sides meet it appears [judging by the polling numbers]. They did it to themselves by puting out a [relative] powerhouse like Origins and then pulling back and saying "psyche." Origins wasn't perfect, but DA2 was even further from it.

Just my take as a RPG newb.

[Yrkoon]

Zanallen wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

So a perfect system would be totally customizable iconic-looking gear.....  which can be removed/replaced by the player if he wants.

Do I  understand what you're saying so far? 

There is no perfect system. A toggle system that allowed the player to remove the iconic armor to see what is actually equipped might please the majority of the people, but it would also be far and wide the most expensive and time consuming option. And even then it still places constraints on what kind of characters the designers can make because they have to adhere to a generic model for when you removed the iconic looks.

Aaah yes, another  'They can't do it because it'd be too expensive and would require some time' retort.


I wonder if this excuse will pop up  when we later discuss the issue of  DA3  having to reuse its maps, and warriors not being able to dual-wield, and Origins not making a return, and the Tactical camera  being absent, and  not being able to hold conversations with your companions any time you want.  etc.


In other words, are people already making excuses  for DA3 being a cheap rush job?  Looks like it to me.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:33 .

[esper]

Yrkoon wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

So a perfect system would be totally customizable iconic-looking gear.....  which can be removed/replaced by the player if he wants.

Do I  understand what you're saying so far? 

There is no perfect system. A toggle system that allowed the player to remove the iconic armor to see what is actually equipped might please the majority of the people, but it would also be far and wide the most expensive and time consuming option. And even then it still places constraints on what kind of characters the designers can make because they have to adhere to a generic model for when you removed the iconic looks.

Aaah yes, another  'They can't do it because it'd be too expensive and would require some time' retort.


I wonder if this excuse will pop up  when we later discuss the issue of  DA3  having to reuse its maps, and warriors not being able to dual-wield, and Origins not making a return, and the Tactical camera  being absent, and  not being able to hold conversations with your companions any time you want.

In other words, are people already making excuses  for DA3 being a cheap rush job?

Warriors not being able to dual-wield: Fine with me. It is the rouge distinctive style.
Reuse maps: I don't think bioware dares to do that again.
Origins not making a return: Well if it is not done better than in da:o. I don't want them to make a return. I personally hope for three or four origins that matter in the narrative, but if it doesn't fit with the story I do need origins.
tactical camera absent: No opinion. I am not playing on a computer.

Modifié par esper, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:34 .

[Zanallen]

Yrkoon wrote...

Aaah yes, another  'They can't do it because it'd be too expensive and would require some time' retort.

I wonder if this excuse will pop up  when we later discuss the issue of  DA3  having to reuse its maps, and warriors not being able to dual-wield, and Origins not making a return, and the Tactical camera  being absent, and  not being able to hold conversations with your companions any time you want.  etc.

In other words, are people already making excuses  for DA3 being a cheap rush job?  Looks like it to me.

I never said they can't. However, if they do it and you then only have one armor model per type and a bunch of recolors, that will be why.

[Yrkoon]

esper wrote...



Warriors not being able to dual-wield: Fine with me. It is the rouge distinctive style.

I stopped reading right here.

You're so demonstrably wrong  in this strange belief of yours that it's almost sad.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:41 .

[just_me]

alex90c wrote...

I posted an idea in some other thread I think, saying that you could
perhaps go to tanners/blacksmiths/whatever and purchase stat
improvements just like you can for the Hawke key. Then it would either
work two ways:

1. "I want to have X amount of critical chance"
-
game charges you an amount based on how much of a stat you want and a
"value" it sets on each stat (so for example +50 attack will come at a
cheaper price than 25% chance per hit to stun)

2. "I want improved critical chance"
-
game charges you set amount for each stat bonus you want, and it
scales, along with the outfit to the companion's level. So an outfit
with a +attack stat may have +13 at level 1 and then +236 at level 25

Not sure what the prices would be, but I think it would enable further customisation.

I thought about this too... but then I thought: "Applying custom effects to equipment... don't we have this already?"
Assuming that you can do it only a few times on any piece of armour (and so it should be otherwise it's clearly broken) it's pretty much the same as adding runes to you equipment...
If you can control the amount as in the first example... I think there is just too much potential to "break" the game.

[esper]

Yrkoon wrote...

esper wrote...



Warriors not being able to dual-wield: Fine with me. It is the rouge distinctive style.

I stopped reading right here.

You're so demonstrably wrong this this strange belief of yours that it's almost sad.

Why is I wrong in that?
I just have a different opinion, and unlike you I actually know that my opinion is opions. You state things as if you opinion is a fact which is kinda sad actually. Treat other people's comment with respect.
In da:o. I felt that there was no difference in playing rouge and warrior. In fact the warrior felt cheap because rouges could be specced to deal just as much damage and unlike rouges warriors didn't get nearly as many skills point. I like that dualwielding is with smaller 'lighter' weapons and the specialty to one class. I like that there is a huge difference between classes since dualclassing isn't possible anyway. 

[Barbarossa2010]

Yeah, resource constraints are just not my concern as a consumer. This is a business relationship, not a charity. If they cannot provide the product that [let's say, half] the franchise fan base wants, then that half will feel no desire to pay money for what they consider to be a substandard product, and honestly they shouldn't pay for something they don't want or would be unsatisfied with.

If things are really that tight in the development budget, sounds to me like they need to cut overhead or readjust their financial targets...or, of course, put out a faster, cheaper, streamlined product (all the while making pretense that they're offering "compromise") and hope they attract just enough to keep it profitable.

Why anyone would argue on behalf of the company providing a product to actually provide less, is beyond me. I want those who like iconic looks to get what they want AND those who don't like them to get what they want too. Figure it out Bioware, or accept the consequences of making a choice of who to please. Simple as that. You did this to yourselves.

[just_me]

Filament wrote...

If they're retextures like apparently all 13 or so of what I thought were unique massive armor models in DAO, I'd be okay with that.

You prefer having 5-6 models overall that you can put on anyone. Instead of having these 5-6 exclusive to your main and 2-3 exclusive outfits per companion?

[alex90c]

just_me wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I posted an idea in some other thread I think, saying that you could
perhaps go to tanners/blacksmiths/whatever and purchase stat
improvements just like you can for the Hawke key. Then it would either
work two ways:

1. "I want to have X amount of critical chance"
-
game charges you an amount based on how much of a stat you want and a
"value" it sets on each stat (so for example +50 attack will come at a
cheaper price than 25% chance per hit to stun)

2. "I want improved critical chance"
-
game charges you set amount for each stat bonus you want, and it
scales, along with the outfit to the companion's level. So an outfit
with a +attack stat may have +13 at level 1 and then +236 at level 25

Not sure what the prices would be, but I think it would enable further customisation.

I thought about this too... but then I thought: "Applying custom effects to equipment... don't we have this already?"
Assuming that you can do it only a few times on any piece of armour (and so it should be otherwise it's clearly broken) it's pretty much the same as adding runes to you equipment...
If you can control the amount as in the first example... I think there is just too much potential to "break" the game.

Perhaps sticking to the DA2 kinda model where you get generic equipment (red background), average equipment (grey background), good equipment (gold) and unique, one-of-a-kind equipment (purple) that could limit the amount of customisation. So perhaps the ... iconic ... outfit earlier on in the game, while still having the "improves with level-up" trait can't have as much modification as something you can get later on in the game.

I see what you mean with breaking the game though, so maybe upgrades should be fairly pricey. Or, each outfit has a "weight". So say, a final outfit may have a weight of "4" which means it can handle four average stat bonuses, whereas if you engrave it with more powerful stat bonuses (say perhaps the 25% chance of stun I mentioned), that stat since it was so powerful would have a different "weight", say "3.5" so that then you could only add "0.5." of extra stat bonus, which may perhaps just be the player trying to slip in a small attack bonus. Of course this would all rely on the first example I gave ("I want to have X amount of critical chance") rather than "I want improved critical chance") ... though I suppose the latter could work.

[bEVEsthda]

JohnEpler wrote...

If you find yourself unable to respond to a point with more than a single word 'troll', then perhaps refrain from posting. Why you'd think that kind of post is in any way acceptable is beyond me.

So enlighten me: What do you think his "point" was? And why would you think it worth more than a single word in response? If so, you're welcome to make some suggestions. And if you do, I'll maybe involve you in a very contrieved, very convoluted, utterly meaningless and almost endless discussion. Would you like that?

As to why I would think it would be acceptable, well I sure wasn't certain about that. But it seemed worth a try. Just imagine: If one could just respond to people who only want to attack other peoples opinions, with a single word, I mean - wow! I could just keep replying to such post with "troll", again and again. The beauty of it is that it takes so little effort.

[Yrkoon]

esper wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

esper wrote...



Warriors not being able to dual-wield: Fine with me. It is the rouge distinctive style.

I stopped reading right here.

You're so demonstrably wrong this this strange belief of yours that it's almost sad.

Why is I wrong in that?

Because every single fantasy RPG that bioware has done since 2001 has allowed for non-rogues to dual-wield.  The only exception is DA2.    And exceptions don't make the rule.

 And  no, you did not express an opinion here.  You made a false claim.  There's NOTHING distinctive about rogues dual-wielding.

[Zanallen]

Yrkoon wrote...

I stopped reading right here.

You're so demonstrably wrong  in this strange belief of yours that it's almost sad.

Not really. The most common style of dual wielding is with a one handed sword and a short sword or dagger. Other than that, two daggers would be the next most common. Regardless, it is a style designed for dexterous fighters with the smaller weapon used for parrying. In Dragon Age, being a rogue does not necessarily mean that you are a thief and instead encompasses quick and agile fighters with high dexterity.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

If you like iconic armour, you get stuck in garbage for long periods of time (under your proposed system) or you're forced to switch out. 

Yet another propblem solved by having a shallower power curve.

Alternately, the iconic armour could also be the product of some sort of crafting system, so you could make it whenever you wanted an upgrade, and the materials you'd acquired to that point would determine its effectiveness.

There are many ways around this.  You're simply assuming a bad design, and then pointing out how bad it would be.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:57 .

[Furtled]

Sounds like a cracking plan to me, players that care can fiddle, players that don't care don't have to worry and the party characters retain a sense of individuality.

I'd also love to see duel wielding warriors make a return (I blame too much Robin of Sherwood in my younger years), adding them doesn't take anything away from rogues and it's always nice to have options. 

Modifié par Furtled, 02 septembre 2011 - 08:07 .

[esper]

Yrkoon wrote...

esper wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

esper wrote...



Warriors not being able to dual-wield: Fine with me. It is the rouge distinctive style.

I stopped reading right here.

You're so demonstrably wrong this this strange belief of yours that it's almost sad.

Why is I wrong in that?

Because every single fantasy RPG that bioware has done since 2001 has allowed for non-rogues to dual-wield.  The only exception is DA2.    And exceptions don't make the rule.

 And  no, you did not express an opinion here.  You made a false claim.  There's NOTHING distinctive about rogues dual-wielding.

So what? And you and I have been playing different rpg games for a lot of those I played didn't even had dualwield. and even if they had we are obviosuly not playing one of these games. You can't make an argument that basiaclly said everyone else is doing it. And just because 'everyone else' are doing something it does not force bioware to do it as well.
It is distinctive to da2's rouges which I liked - Opinion. It made the rouge and warriorr class different which they should be.

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

Do I really have to spell it out for you?

I want Morrigan's iconic appearance with full stat customization.

Dragon Age: Origins presents me with two options:

1) Leave her in the original outfit, which has very minimal stats.

2) Give her one other set of robes.


I like neither option one or two. It's that simple. You have not provided a solution by mentioning the alternative set.

Actually, Morrigan's upgraded robes look identical to her original iconic appearance.

Personally, I have nothing against unique looks, except when I don't like them.  That's the problem DA2 had.

I like the idea of characters having "multiple iconic looks"  i'm just not sure about having to unlock all of them.  I'd rather we at least start out with 2-3 choices and unlock more as we go along.

For example, my first paythrough of DA2 I hardly took Isabela anywhere, because I couldn't take her seriously with her starting appearance.  It wasn't until later when I downloaded a mod that put her in black leather pants and a top rather than her own pantsless tunic that I thought she looked suffciently "pirate-like" to bring along (and found she had some really funny dialogue)