491 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

I'm fine with iconic looks, but I want to be able to change them. Loot should matter.

[Danyu]

The only thing that really kind of bugged me with the armor in DA2 was that when I went to a shop all the gear was Hawke only, weapons included. I knew about the companion armor then, but I don't know. It just kind of irked me.

Not being to able to change the iconic look never bothered me. Plus, Origins armor looked bland and repetitive on everyone, warriors and rogues, specifically. It wasn't until that I got some of the add-on armor in Origins did the look of the armor start to shine in my opinion. Like the Blood Dragon Armor? That was pretty neat.

Being able to change an iconic appearance is a nice option but unnecessary for me, however, I do like messing around with my party's gear in Origins for stat beneficial reasons. Half of the joy in Origins came from simple customization like spending level points, and deciding which gear bonuses would be better.

Modifié par Danyu, 07 septembre 2011 - 06:11 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Since this thread has less insults being thrown around I'll leave my suggestion in here instead becuase this one won't be locked and fading away soon unlike the other one might.

Ideally having the ability to use stats to make the game easier or harder and having the fun aspect of visual change is surely better for the player. Though admittedly the fun aspect is subjective but from reading here seems the only thing people really hated was the design of armour which is not customisation issue in itself or the seporate parts to an outfit having to switch each part.

So replace section parts based outfits with entire top and bottom combined outfits in huge numbers to replace huge choice the player had before for example if was around 40 sets of armour in DAO but were parts changable so ended up with around 80-120 parts etc then in DA3 have 40 complete armour sets (top and bottom combined outfits x 40 for each companion of which can be looted or plot given but needs to have a large amount of sets through game), each with complete new look as have done with these item packs outfits for DA2. But also stats and runes and upgrades on each of the 40 x 5 outfit/armour sets so they can be used in certain situations.

The trinkets, necklaces, weapons and so on the same way with regard to upgrading and stats and large amount loot wise to find, only these other things such as rings, amulets and weapons etc are interchangable aka not set restricted basically these are seporate peices unlike the outfit sets which are (combined top and bottom) as one armour type out of 40 x 5.

Now granted in total would need to make 40 x 5 but given a 2-3 year development time period and how fast you have been throwing out these item packs for sale you could double or triple that amount of armour and wouldn't take you much of that time.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 07 septembre 2011 - 09:52 .

[RosaAquafire]

I'm very happy with the proposed changes.

It seems like people who are unhappy won't be happy unless they're given 100% what they want. I don't know. It's like:

<Players> We want to equip our followers!
<Bioware> Okay, we really want to keep iconic appearances, but we see your point. So how about we let you equip your dudes, but it won't affect their appearances, just their stats! That's a fifty fifty compromise and I think it gives both of us what we really want out of this!
<Players> RAAAARGH NO I WANT BOTH, BIOWARE DOESN'T LISTEN TO CUSTOMERS.

I really love having iconic looks for followers. They all have their own body types and actual identifiable silhouettes and appearances. I like looking at Isabela or Varric and getting the feeling that those are the clothes that character got up and chose to wear that morning. I love how Isabela has thick thighs and big boobs, while Aveline has muscular arms and square shoulders. I love how you can see Merrill's Dalish heritage in her wild looking garments, and she doesn't just wear yet another Circle robe.

I so see WHY some people like dressing their dudes up, even though it's not my personal boat, but I don't see why they can't see the value of doing it the other way. Who is the most identifiable and unique looking character in DA:O? Why, Morrigan, of course. Why? Because she had eyes that no other character did, a hairstyle that wasn't available to the PC in vanilla, and wardrobe that actually looked like something she personally chose to wear when she woke up that morning, instead of a standard issue mage robe that she got along with her fantasy foodstamps.

That has value, and resources are limited.

There's merit to being able to choose to put whatever clothes you want on your followers. There's ALSO merit to every follower having a unique body type, interesting clothes that don't appear on anybody else, and personality in their visual design.

If we can only have one or the other, Bioware has to decide which one is more in keeping with their game. Is the choice they made really so bad?

There's no objective right or wrong answer here. The only objective facts are these:

- objectively, the player is given more options and control if they can choose which of a number of predetermined body models they can use for their followers.
and
- objectively, Isabela looks more interesting and identifiable in a white tunic dress with a uniquely modelled body than she would wearing a c/ped Female Human Leather armour set.

Now, there's some subjective stuff layered on top of that. For me, well. Subjectively, I thought DA:O's characters all looked generic and not very exciting except for Morrigan, Leliana in her Chantry robe (not viable for gameplay), and Wynne in her bright red Seniour Enchanter's robe. Subjectively, I prefer Fenris's silly lack of shoes to Zevran and my Mahariel looking like the exact same guy with a slightly different head. Subjectively, I really missed being able to equip armour found on characters other than my PC, especially when I found really cool armours that weren't for my class. So for me, this proposed system is pretty sweet.

But even if it weren't, I don't understand the blind outrage at it. There's plenty of validity to either path, and Bioware is trying to get the best of both worlds here. Will you really not be satisfied unless DA3 gives you absolutely every last thing you want, where nothing will satisfy you but a new campaign with Origins's engine? Cause that's what leads to entire genres stagnating.

Laugh at CoD all you want, but it sounds like what you want a franchise to be is exactly what that one is: a new game every few years with one new gun and a new storyline and that's it.

[Kileyan]

My dream compromise is letting me fully equip my party members, and they keep their iconic looks, that are only changed during scripted events of loyalty or what not. I'd be happier if they changed their looks with the equipment I gave them, but I can deal with the dev's wanting to keep iconic looks, especialy in light of the game engines limitations of unique looks being an all or nothing thing.

If the game continues DA2's system, I will not be happy with the evolution of this game, and likely not continue to support Bioware, since I really did not enjoy DA2 very much.

[Dragoonlordz]

RosaAquafire wrote...

I'm very happy with the proposed changes.

It seems like people who are unhappy won't be happy unless they're given 100% what they want. I don't know. It's like:

<Players> We want to equip our followers!
<Bioware> Okay, we really want to keep iconic appearances, but we see your point. So how about we let you equip your dudes, but it won't affect their appearances, just their stats! That's a fifty fifty compromise and I think it gives both of us what we really want out of this!
<Players> RAAAARGH NO I WANT BOTH, BIOWARE DOESN'T LISTEN TO CUSTOMERS.

To be honest it's not 50/50 as mentioned elsewhere stats only make the game combat easier and harder when it comes to equipment, it isn't a fun aspect.. It is a gameplay necessity to tackle the variation in opponents spells, tactics and strengths by bolstering your defense plus capabilities and such in my opinion. The visual component adds an element of fun to that precedure in other words stats effect the enjoyment (to some) and necessity to most for in combat, appearence effects out of combat fun and enjoyment and they are not the same thing.

Bioware already created multiple armour sets and clothes for your iconic looking companions, whether by unlocking romance or buying DLC item packs. What they need to do is greatly expand on that in combination with stats to make the fights more interesting and have variation in clothes and armours for out of combat too.

I think around 40 or more sets (a set being a combination of both top and bottom as one item) per companion with each being that companion only sets and each unique in appearance all unlocked through story or some loot based or found, maybe some through achievements. They brought out these new item packs in very short period of time between each so they do not take vast amounts of time to make. Each of those having that ability to upgrade and attached runes and stats and such customise those 40 outfits per companion and allow the continued use of rings, trinkets, necklaces and amulets and especially weapons on top of those sets would be best and also would be with regard to weapons (upgradable) like the armour.

That would allow a good variety in iconic looks, large enough selection to choose from, and all upgradable for purpose of combat and tactical fighting. A few sets is both lazy and not good enough given the couple years of potential development of the next title plus yet quick turnaround time they have shown takes in with all these new outfits and armour released in quick succession recently. They need to be in game from start or atleast 90% of those 40+ each companion minimum and not 10% in game 90% purchase later. Because that will put me off ever buying from Bioware again as it shows they see me nothing more than a wallet to raid at their own leisure a mere floating $ sign. They need to make money but they also need respect for the customer and doing the 10% ingame 90% for sale after to me personally shows no respect for me as a customer.

Anyways I think this would surely solve everyones issues? The only difference between this and the old system is these sets are all iconic and created for specific companions alone yet it lacks the higgledypiggledy of each set being in parts with mix and match issue people seemed to have yet at same time each set is still upgradable. The key issue is there has to be a truly large selection of those iconic sets from initial retail release which is why said around 40+ [per companion] obtainable through game else for lack of better expression they can literally kiss my future purchases goodbye because I would find a few sets alone insulting on a grand scale given how quickly they made these recent item iconic outfit packs/sets and amount of time between release of titles they could make a large amount of iconic sets per companion in the time takes to release the next title. I would also rather never buy from Bioware again than give them the green light to only having a few at release and having to buy the majority after the core game hit's retail shelves because of like said it shows an utter disrespect for me the customer to do that and in buying their title while saying it's ok for them to do that to me as a customer would give them the false impression I found it even remotely acceptable.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 08 septembre 2011 - 11:17 .

[just_me]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

To be honest it's not 50/50 as mentioned elsewhere stats only make the game combat easier and harder when it comes to equipment, it isn't a fun aspect..

Well ... that's your opinion, you know... I think it's the other way around, that stat customization is fun, while visual customization is not.

Bioware already created multiple armour sets and clothes for your iconic looking companions, whether by unlocking romance or buying DLC item packs.

Again ... no they did not release any companion armor with the Item packs...

Do you really think your proposal is even slightly realistic?
DA:O had like 8 different armor models for the whole crew... if you count retextures as a new armor we have around 25 armors in the game (including robes, not counting clothing and DLC stuff)
There are color variations, but one can't count them (of would you be satisfied with 1 model and 40 recolors... I guess I know the answer...)
And now you suddenly want 40 sets per character? Assuming the party consists of 8 people... that's 320 sets ... quite the difference to Origin's 8...
And now to the argument that making armor can't take long because of the released Item Packs in quick succession...
There are 2 Item Packs released over a 5 month time span, containing 9 new models... that's 9/5 armors per month... let's make it 2 per month...
If they produce armor with this speed... that's only 160 months to finish the 320 armors ... a mere 13 years until they are done... so the Item Packs DEFINITLY proves "making armor does not take long"
And let's assume it takes around 40 hours to finish the game... so you get a new outfit for a character every hour... and a new set for any character every 5-10mins ... and that wouldn't be too much?

And NO your suggestions does not solve everyone's issues... it is still possible that character A wears something that character B cannot equip (and that point was made rather often as an undesired restriction... having a lot to choose from does not solve the issue) and others really wanted to mix armor parts... well they can't do that either.

If I had to pick my favorite "super unlikely companion equipment system proposal" I'd go with Monkeylungs' idea...

Modifié par just_me, 08 septembre 2011 - 04:22 .

[Siven80]

I like the unique/iconic looks.

For me the iconic looks help the character visually stand out from the crowd. Of course good dialogue does that too, but your first see someone it is the way they look you first notice.

For me Morrigan didnt look right if she wasnt wearing "her" outfit.
Leliana didnt look right without "her" sacred ashes outfit (ah lovely mods).

The ME2 and DA2 companions generally looked good in their unique outfits and were memorable. How many DAO cosplayers were there compared to ME2 or DA2?

Having said that, having the option to change their looks, either by unlocking, or looting more companion outfits is also great as it allows more visual customisation (2-4 per character is a good number i think).

Of course i would also expect proper visual appearance in areas where it makes sense. Like wearing helmets out in space (unless hide helmet option is on) or as someone mentioned above, characters dressed as guards or chantry sisters trying to sneak in somewhere.

Now add the options to change stats depending on the build or situations and i'm happy.

While im not sure about the lore specifics I would prefer a modular system, something like expanding the enchantments system by armor having say 3 or 4 rune slots and having more enchantment options available, whether its base stats, attack, defense, armor or elemental resistances and use them as inter-changeable armor upgrades.

[BubbleDncr]

I like the iconic looks of DA2.

I like not having to spend hours making sure everyone has the best armor, gloves, boots, and helmet, as I did in DA:O.

I'd prefer it to stay the way it was in DA2, but I suppose I'm in the minority.

[PaulSX]

positive. I dont care how the followers look like as long as there are statistical changes

[Master Shiori]

I fully support this idea.

One of the most frustrating things in DA:O, for me, was the fact that companions wore the same armor as the npcs, and in most cases it was simply generic plate/leather/robe with a new color scheme. Morrigan was the only companion that actually stuck out as unique. But, on the other hand, I don't want to lose the ability to have several different armor set that I can equipt my companions with. 

The current solution, which Mike outlined, seems like a good compromise between giving us customization options for companions, while making sure the still look unique.

I'm looking forward to learning more about it, but so far it sounds good.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 09 septembre 2011 - 08:58 .

[Quething]

There's a mod for KotOR - well, several, for both games - that gave color swaps to jedi robes. So you could take a red Jedi robe and equip it to Jolee, and it would look like a red version of his default hooded vest robes thing. Or you could take it off him and put it on Bastila, and she'd be wearing a red version of her fun tunic-y thing. Or you could put armor on them, and it would look like armor always looked. There's a rather popular DA2 mod that does basically the same thing, changing follower armor upgrades to actual new sets of armor, with their "iconic" meshes but palette swapped textures.

I never play without those mods. They're an excellent compromise for those unwilling (BioWare, for reasons I can sympathize with) or unable (KotOR modders, generally) to add unique meshes for every character for every item, but also interested in maintaining a distinctive look, and they also allow players to deviate from that look entirely if they desired. And they're not that much work (relatievely speaking; I have nothing but awe for Ish's heavy elf mesh work). They'd fit perfectly into the tint system DA uses right now, though it would mean slightly reshuffling the way meshes are called.

What they're talking about here sounds more like the ME2 system plus more accessory slots. If so, can't say I'm a fan.

Modifié par Quething, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:08 .

[GodWood]

Master Shiori wrote...
I fully support this idea.

One of the most frustrating things in DA:O, for me, was the fact that companions wore the same armor as the npcs.

Peronally I see this as a positive.

I don't like the PC or his companions appearing MORE special then everyone else in the universe.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Kileyan wrote...

My dream compromise is letting me fully equip my party members, and they keep their iconic looks, that are only changed during scripted events of loyalty or what not. I'd be happier if they changed their looks with the equipment I gave them, but I can deal with the dev's wanting to keep iconic looks, especialy in light of the game engines limitations of unique looks being an all or nothing thing.

But they clearly aren't an all or nothing thing.  Recall Morrigan.

[Sylvius the Mad]

GodWood wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
I fully support this idea.

One of the most frustrating things in DA:O, for me, was the fact that companions wore the same armor as the npcs.

Peronally I see this as a positive.

I don't like the PC or his companions appearing MORE special then everyone else in the universe.

I agree entirely.  I'm not a fan at all of "chosen one" storylines, and having the game treat the PC or the companions differently from the NPCs or the enemies necessarily makes the PC and his companions "chosen ones".

Look at DA2's combat mechanics.  Why do Hawke and his companions do so much more damage per attack than everything else in Thedas?  They're made special by the rules of the game.  That's not something I want.

[just_me]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Look at DA2's combat mechanics.  Why do Hawke and his companions do so much more damage per attack than everything else in Thedas?  They're made special by the rules of the game.  That's not something I want.

On the other hand everything else in Thedas has far more HP than Hawke and company^^ ... But I agree, it was way too extreme in DA2...

[SirGladiator]

One of the important details that gets overlooked in the whole 'iconic appearance' discussion is that the top 'iconic appearance' in the entire series, which is that of Morrigan, is from the game in which you CAN change the appearance of your teammates. You don't change Morrigan's because its awesome, you could if you wanted to, you just dont. If the outfit they give a character is genuinely awesome, they can rest assured we wont want to change it. However it should be our call, thats one of the basic fun elements of the game, giving your teammates the outfits you like best on them. If its an outfit we'd change in a second if we had the chance, its not really fair to call it 'iconic', more like 'it sucks but we have no choice', and that's just not cool .

[cindercatz]

With that last bit about equipped armor both effecting stats *and* visual appearance, but fitting into each characters unique style and primary suits, I suggested that a few weeks or so after the game came out. Totally for that. :-) Major improvement.

Basically, you've gotta have customization options, and you've gotta have visual representation of that, but the same piece equipped to different characters doesn't have to look the same across the board. Instead it changes the unique look in a way consistent with the character's style. I hope they go all out on that.

Modifié par cindercatz, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:18 .

[RPGamer13]

Better than nothing.

Though personally, I'd rather they also change how they approach armor for the main character. Come on, there should be some that are 'realistic' and others that are just crazy or even 'fashionable' wear for even female warriors.

I'm talking about outfits like Judith's outfit in Tales of Vesperia. or Isabela's corset. You know 'sexy' things.

[MerinTB]

just_me wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Look at DA2's combat mechanics.  Why do Hawke and his companions do so much more damage per attack than everything else in Thedas?  They're made special by the rules of the game.  That's not something I want.

On the other hand everything else in Thedas has far more HP than Hawke and company^^ ... But I agree, it was way too extreme in DA2...

Yeah, this is pretty silly overall.

----

Also, poll looks to be about 370-ish negative to 340-ish positive, in response to Mr. Laidlaw's recent suggestion/proposal/what-have-you.

Unfortunately, as far as I'm concerned, this poll doesn't actually differentiate why negative or positive.  With so many polls (even done by polling firms, especially as those polls are reported) results are deceptive.

For example, politician X has a job approval rating of 30%, say.  That might make you think that only 30% of respondants would vote for X again.  But if you dig deeper and add a second question, you might be surprised to learn that 65% would vote for X again.  But only 30% approval of X's job.  What could that mean?  You need cross-tabs and more questions to dig at what those other two results mean.

For this poll, about the changes to companion armor or inventory or what have you, the negatives could mean thinking it doesn't go far enough or that it goes too far.  Or perhaps something else.  Positives could mean that it's not enough but the gesture is appreciated, that it goes too far but is tolerable, or even the obvious this is exactly right view.

Trying to draw solid conclusions from this poll is like looking at low game-finish rates and assuming that the game is too long.

[Mark of the Dragon]

I like the idea of keeping the iconic look for each character but depending on the kind of armor (massive, light, etc.) I tjink that is a fair compromise that gives both fans a bioware what they are looking for.

[Brockololly]

GodWood wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
I fully support this idea.

One of the most frustrating things in DA:O, for me, was the fact that companions wore the same armor as the npcs.

Peronally I see this as a positive.

I don't like the PC or his companions appearing MORE special then everyone else in the universe.

Agreed.

Sure, it makes sense for some companions to look different. It makes sense for Morrigan to look a bit different than everyone else clothing wise since she has had very little interaction with the world at large. But somebody like Leliana when you first meet her in the Chantry? It makes sense she'd be wearing normal Chantry robes. Or Sten wearing common clothing while caged up.

The unique look of companions should come in their faces, voices, personalities and so forth. A big part of my issue with DA2 is how Kirkwall and the world feels dull and lifeless, in large part because a handful of companions/NPCs clearly were given all the attention and most everyone/everything else looks like an afterthought. And that discrepancy is very jarring.

[My_Decemberling]

I support the idea. I understand the need behind iconic looks, I mean fanart/cosplay = free advertising on some level. Just hanging around deviantart you see a lot more DA2 stuff than DAO stuff, even though most agree that DAO was a better game. I've played a few games because I saw a beautiful cosplay/piece of artwork and I asked the person what game it was, if it was good, if i'd like it, so on and so forth. The problem is when a game is as lack-luster as DA2 was people ultimately aren't going to recommend it to people, and you wont get a lot of people dressing up as characters they didn't like.

Anyway, what bothered me most about DA2 was the lack of stat control that came with the fact I couldn't equip any armor on my companions. As long as I have that I'm fine. I could care less if the armor I epuipt doesn't show up on their body, in a game where people shoot fireballs out of their hands it isn't exactly immersion breaking for me.

Modifié par My_Decemberling, 10 septembre 2011 - 10:53 .

[panamakira]

Overall I don't think it's a bad compromise. It's hard to tell devs exactly what you want because everybody is asking what they want and I can see how that is difficult.

Not being to customize my companions look was a huge deal to me and I was very dissappointed I didn't get to mess around with it on DA2 but I can understand Mike's point about trying to keep the party members feel similar within their own iconic look throughout the game.

My only concern would be if they offer more options to customize the companions on DA3 or "unlockables" or whatever. They better give us variety. Not like 3 unlocks throughout the whole game and then we're back to square one. Either offer a good variety of choices, I would say more than 5 or I would suggest going back to DA:O's method.

I think a compromise is fair as long as my companions have more than a few choices to unlock throughout the game.

Modifié par panamakira, 11 septembre 2011 - 01:01 .

[Sabariel]

Siven80 wrote...

For me Morrigan didnt look right if she wasnt wearing "her" outfit.
Leliana didnt look right without "her" sacred ashes outfit (ah lovely mods).

And that right there is a huge problem for me. The characters should be able to wear a potato sack and still be themselves and "look right".