491 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

Harid wrote...

I want the Dragon Age: Origins system, but Bioware is gonna do whatever they want to do when it comes to this.

But at least we have romances, right.

DA4...no companions at all.

I just want JE to be like JE, ME to be like ME and DA to be like DA. I ask for too much.

[Harid]

FieryDove wrote...

Harid wrote...

I want the Dragon Age: Origins system, but Bioware is gonna do whatever they want to do when it comes to this.

But at least we have romances, right.

DA4...no companions at all.

I just want JE to be like JE, ME to be like ME and DA to be like DA. I ask for too much.

I agree with this.  But apparently it's impossible to do this gen for some reason.

[Kilshrek]

Harid wrote...

I agree with this.  But apparently it's impossible to do this gen for some reason.

You want more Dragon Age? You can't handle more Dragon Age!



sorry.

[bEVEsthda]

First, I'd like to thank In Exile for opening up this discussion again, since I don't think we were quite finished with it.

My position is that I don't have enough information to decide one way or other.

The proposition has some serious drawbacks:
1. We can't equip our companions as we'd like, the way we did in Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Dragon Age Origins. Basically the proposition is just the way DA2 worked, slightly tweaked.
2. Upgrading stats, but not visuals means there's a disconnection between what we see and how it works. My feeling is that DA2 already went way too far with ignoring realism, and this would be another slip on that same negative trend.

On the other hand, one would have to guess M.L. has some reasons. My problem there is that I don't know what.

The way I, and I gather many others as well, would like this to work is simply to let the game provide some items for iconic looks and then let the player decide whatever to equip. Morrigan in heavy plate, like.

But there is the possibility that there is also an issue with unique models and workload to provide all standard suits for those. I do know that this doesn't have to be an issue, but I also don't know that Bioware doesn't have that problem.
And in that case, since it would then come down to allocating development resources, I would be reluctantly tolerant of the proposition. Meaning I'd be in favor, since I feel efforts and time can be used better elsewhere.

But I have very little tolerance for forcing iconic looks on us, just because of some compulsary need of a developer or marketing head to enforce his 'vision'. If that is the issue here, - then f*** the h*** off!

[Blastback]

I want much more visual customisation than what this would offer. Returning stat customisation is nice, but the visual customisation elements are equally important to me.

[Wusword77]

In Exile wrote...

Interestingly enough, 53% of people don't have a positive reaction to the announcement, for whatever reason.

Claiming that they don't have a "positive reaction" to what was said isn't giving people the whole picture.  While it's true to the letter of the word, 9% of that 53% are netural on the subject.  This implies that they are indifferent to the proposed Armor system.

I could also make the argument that 57% of the people who took the poll don't have a negative reaction to the announcement.

[Rawgrim]

I dunno why this should be too big of an issue. Drakensang managed to have both unique outfits and costomizable outfits at the same time. And that game had alot slimmer budget than DA has. Still...I would have to say that Laidlaw`s suggestion isn`t a bad one. But i probably wouldnt be too happy with it unless there are at least 5 different outfits per companion. And deffinatly just the simple way they did it in ME2, where they pretty much had the same outfits but in different colours.

[bEVEsthda]

But a lot of people (like me) who are essentially negative to the proposition, didn't take the poll, and won't.

[Zanallen]

Looks like, much like the voiced/silent protagonist debate, there can be no real compromise here. So far, the boards seem pretty evenly split on this topic meaning that Bioware is going to lose no matter which way they go. Sweet.

[FieryDove]

Zanallen wrote...

Looks like, much like the voiced/silent protagonist debate, there can be no real compromise here. So far, the boards seem pretty evenly split on this topic meaning that Bioware is going to lose no matter which way they go. Sweet.

Even if some win...there is no win.

[Zjarcal]

Anarya wrote...

I absolutely support it and I think it's a definite improvement over both Origins' and DA2's systems.

This.

The more I think about it, the more I love it. Looks separated from stats are a total win for me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I am supportive. Not strongly because I still do not know whether the alternate costumes will be really varied, or just a recoloring or the addition of tiny things like a red arm band a la DA2.

[Eollodwyn]

bEVEsthda wrote...

But a lot of people (like me) who are essentially negative to the proposition, didn't take the poll, and won't.

Well, the people on the forum are only a small fraction of DA players, and poll participants are only a fraction of the forumites, so really the significance of a poll is pretty debatable, anyways... 

[In Exile]

Wusword77 wrote...
Claiming that they don't have a "positive reaction" to what was said isn't giving people the whole picture.  

I disagree, and I strongly support the current changes proposed by Mr. Laidlaw. 

While it's true to the letter of the word, 9% of that 53% are netural on the subject.  This implies that they are indifferent to the proposed Armor system.

Absolutely. But I think given the current climate around DA2, a purely positive reaction is more important than indifference.

I could also make the argument that 57% of the people who took the poll don't have a negative reaction to the announcement.

Certainly. Still, I see your point about it biasing the respone, and will change that. 

[ipgd]

bEVEsthda wrote...

1. We can't equip our companions as we'd like, the way we did in Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Dragon Age Origins. Basically the proposition is just the way DA2 worked, slightly tweaked.

Well, it's more than slightly tweaked, as my DEFINITIVELY SCIENTIFIC BAR CHARTS prove:



Of course, if you are solely a Cares About Swappable Armor person, there is little Change That You Care About within the system. A statement like "I do not like this proposal because it generates low quantities of Change That I Care About" would be true. A statement like "there is no change in this proposal because only Change That I Care About can be considered real change" would not be true, because the existence of change is not defined solely by whether or not it is Change That You Care About. There is an objectively significant amount of Unqualified Change in the proposed system. It should not be confused with The Operationally Significant Quantity of Change Following Subjective Evaluation of Said Change, which is a function of Your Opinions as An Individual who is Not Everybody Else.

Modifié par ipgd, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:33 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I voted Positive in the poll, but I almost voted Neutral.  Here's why:

I am strongly in favour of full statistical control, so that's good a nice correction of DA2's error, but I strongly dislike fixed companion appearances being mandatory.

I only hope they continue to make the game moddable so that we can correct this.

I don't object to there being companion armour which breaks the rules (even DAO allowed this, as mage robes and civilian clothing were both full-body looks), but I want to be able to dress the companions in regular armour as well (unless there's an obvious in-game reason why that's impossible, like with Shale or Rabbit, though I would like those atypical companions to be the exception rather than the rule).

So, while I prefer this proposed system to the one DA2 saddled us with, I still think DA3's proposed system has significant problems.  Judging it from the perspective of DA2 as the default, the DA3 proposal is clearly an improvement, and thus my positive reaction.  But compared to an ideal system, or even the system we had in DAO, the DA3 proposal still has significant deficiencies.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:45 .

[FaeQueenCory]

I think it's a very good compromise....
And everyone knows that a good compromise is one where all parties are equally unhappy and happy at the same time. (this does not mean they have to be happy or unhappy about the same things)

[Dragoonlordz]

1. Quanitity of armours/outfits? [small, medium or large amount]
2. Quality of armours? [slight visual differences, large visual differences]
3. Stats/Upgrades and such? [large scalable differences, mediocre numbers or selection choices]
4. Methods of acquiring? [most in game or most pay extra item pack DLC]
5. If in game acquisition then in what form? [quests and missions, achievements, plot based]
6. Timespan of acquiring? [no selection at start, few selection at start, many selection at start]

Until such questions lke these come close to being answered I have no intention of voting.

A "Do you want loot in DA3? If so vote for it to show like this comment"
B "Yes, ok will do"
A "Thank you for your support, as of today you can buy your loot for $14.95 per item pack"
B "Wait what!? Noooooo.........."
A "Feel free to purchase, download and use in your game."
B "I hate you..."

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:55 .

[MerinTB]

I voted negative, not strongly negative, for largely symbolic game design direction personal preference reasons (yeah, I don't quite understand what I mean either)...
as, personally, character appearance and the control of such was never high on my lists of "must haves" or even "wants"... I think having the control is cool, and better than not having it, but I'm mostly indifferent to it being one way or another (except on symbolic yadayadayada terms.)

[Maconbar]

Fandango9641 wrote...

FaeQueenCory wrote...

I think it's a very good compromise....
And everyone knows that a good compromise is one where all parties are equally unhappy and happy at the same time. (this does not mean they have to be happy or unhappy about the same things)

And is there still nothing to be said for a system that allows for distinct body models, iconic armours and Origins style party customisation? You know, a game that we can all enjoy and play as we want? Why are we all thinking in terms of accepting compromise for the sake of cosplay instead of asking Mike and his team to deliver on Rays promise for the “best of both”? I don’t particularly want distinct body models or iconic armours for companions, but support the idea of their inclusion in DA3 for those who do. Where’s the support for the sad folk like me who really want a return to Origins style party customisation?
 
And for those who consider Mike’s proposal to be a fair compromise ask yourself this: what elements of his beloved Dragon Age 2 are being omitted in conciliation here?

I voted this as a positive not a strong positive because it doesn't provide for distinct body models, iconic armors, and Origins style party customisation.

I wouldn't term it a compromise either.

edit:
At least this discussion has managed to stay civil so far.

Modifié par Maconbar, 01 septembre 2011 - 07:15 .

[Zanallen]

Fandango9641 wrote...

And is there still nothing to be said for a system that allows for distinct body models, iconic armours and Origins style party customisation? You know, a game that we can all enjoy and play as we want? Why are we all thinking in terms of accepting compromise for the sake of cosplay instead of asking Mike and his team to deliver on Rays promise for the “best of both”? I don’t particularly want distinct body models or iconic armours for companions, but support the idea of their inclusion in DA3 for those who do. Where’s the support for the sad folk like me who really want a return to Origins style party customisation?
 
And for those who consider Mike’s proposal to be a fair compromise ask yourself this: what elements of his beloved Dragon Age 2 are being omitted in conciliation here?

I honestly don't think what you want here is even possible without high expense or time consumption that would in turn drain resources from another part of development. And while you could say that cost isn't your concern, you are the customer not a stockholder yadda yadda, we still have to work within the bounds of what is realistically workable. Bioware is not going to develop the game with both unique models and set it up with generic models so all armors have a visual effect. It is twice the work.

While it might be nice for Bioware to cater to everyone's whims here, I just don't think it is feasible.

[Atakuma]

I voted positive, because while this may not be ideal for me the positive aspects outweigh the negative.

[ipgd]

Fandango9641 wrote...


And is there still nothing to be said for a system that allows for distinct body models, iconic armours and Origins style party customisation? You know, a game that we can all enjoy and play as we want? Why are we all thinking in terms of accepting compromise for the sake of cosplay instead of asking Mike and his team to deliver on Rays promise for the “best of both”? I don’t particularly want distinct body models or iconic armours for companions, but support the idea of their inclusion in DA3 for those who do. Where’s the support for the sad folk like me who really want a return to Origins style party customisation?

I'm guessing at this point this is a rhetorical question meant to express your frustration and you do not actually have any interest in reading an answer to it?

Modifié par ipgd, 01 septembre 2011 - 07:28 .