491 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

At about 350 votes, it is pretty much 50/50 not counting the undecideds.

[Uccio]

I voted negative since though I want to have the ability to put armor on my companions I also want it to be seen and not used forced outfits to which the starts are imported.

[esper]

@Fandango... I am understanding that we will gain different outfit to chose from so it is not completley forced just limited.

@In Exil. Yes we seem quite divided it will be interesting to see the reception for da3.

[bEVEsthda]

just_me wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

Stats, yes. Visuals no.

And if you add the visuals you have DA:Os system and there is no compromise either.
The proposed toggle is probably the easiest solution to make everyone happy... but if they do this with every aspect that splits the community we will end up with a lot of toggles in DA3

Yes too many toggles. There's no need for a toggle either. The DA:O system can handle it as it is. Just provide multiple 'iconic look' equipment with different stats but identical visuals, for those who find preserving iconic looks so precious. Why would the DA:O system need to be compromised? So that those players wanting iconic looks, can know that other players who don't want it are forced to have it anyway?

Now, what I would accept are reasons involving unique body models and development resources. Fine, by all means, in that case I can see that the time might be better used elsewhere. But I must say that having a party and not being able to refit any of their visuals with visually better armour, during the entire game, doesn't appeal to me at all.

[xScarecrowX]

I just read the OP, but I love that idea! I liked the choice part of DAO, but the iconic look for each character in DA2. Combining them into something even better, is awesome!

[Icinix]

Is it really so hard to have a unique character body shape that allows a break in the rules, but still have a few unique armour parts that affect the look visually?

Even if you have the majority of upgrades have no affect on visualisation, there should be at least a few that provide an additional layer or appearance to the existing unique character. Allowing some level of customisation for those who want to define their rag tag group a bit. (e.g Armoured Shoulder Pad, Robe, Chain Mail, whatever)

As mentioned, its a bit iffy having heavy duty defensive additions to a unique characters kit, but they're still running around with their arms, stomach, etc exposed. The animation shouldn't be much of an issue, because if most / all of the character interaction is still going to be done at the characters homes / hubs - they shouldn't be standing their doing nothing, wearing their full armour and weapons - stick them in casual clothes.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I think it would have been recieved better if in DA when you pick up the item upgrades they actually showed visibly on the companion.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'd like to opint out that this DA3 proposal is remarkably similar to the system Mike said we were getting for DA2, but then we didn't.

I don't think Mike meant to mislead us when he did that, but the fact remains that we didn't get what we were told we would, and now they appear to be trying to remedy that by giving us that annouced but unimplemented DA2 system in DA3 (with tweaks).

[Captain_Obvious]

I didn't really care for the DA:O way in which every human male had the exact same body shape/armour as every other human male. I didn't like the DA2 way of buying upgrades for armour that still ended up being "meh" stat-wise towards the end of the game. I guess this is a tough one for me, because I liked the variety in Origins but also the unique looks in DA2. A hybrid of the two would suit me (and probably no one else, but hey, that's what opinions are ). :-)

[bEVEsthda]

Icinix wrote...

Is it really so hard to have a unique character body shape that allows a break in the rules, but still have a few unique armour parts that affect the look visually?

No it isn't. But I would guess it would depend on what tools and ready assets Bioware must use for DA3.

[Icinix]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Is it really so hard to have a unique character body shape that allows a break in the rules, but still have a few unique armour parts that affect the look visually?

No it isn't. But I would guess it would depend on what tools and ready assets Bioware must use for DA3.

Naturally, but since they're already dedicating so much to creating unique character shapes and outfits, whats a few other slight variations to parts of the outfit on top of that?

I would rather that, than another half dozen oversized two handed swords.

[just_me]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Yes too many toggles. There's no need for a toggle either. The DA:O system can handle it as it is. Just provide multiple 'iconic look' equipment with different stats but identical visuals, for those who find preserving iconic looks so precious. Why would the DA:O system need to be compromised? So that those players wanting iconic looks, can know that other players who don't want it are forced to have it anyway?

Now, what I would accept are reasons involving unique body models and development resources. Fine, by all means, in that case I can see that the time might be better used elsewhere. But I must say that having a party and not being able to refit any of their visuals with visually better armour, during the entire game, doesn't appeal to me at all.

I guess a possible problem is keeping the "iconic" look a viable option (if it is just a regular chestpiece overriding the remaining slots like in DA:O). If it does not improve with level up, it obviously will be outclassed by generic equipment rather quickly. If it does level up, well not that fast but if the unique appearance has no unique properties, it won't stay useful for long. If it has properties that are still good endgame... than the outfit is probably better than almost anything you find during the first half of the game, diminishing the use of generic armor.
"Non linear" improvement of companion armor would help... so you need a system that adds additional enchantments to the armor during the game... something like the upgrades in DA2...
Doesn't actually sound like too much work, but needs some tweaking and balancing.

[Eollodwyn]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Eollodwyn wrote...

But that is what's being removed. The proposed system would let you equip them with what you want.

The aesthetic is being forced though isn’t it? I made this point in another thread, but one need only browse BSN screenshots for Origins or count the number of mods currently available for both Dragon Age games to see just how much joy is derived from visual customisation. Can we have it back please?

Well, that is the question, isn't it?  I'm very firmly in the "iconic look" camp, but I don't mind allowing customization per se.  The problem, I think, is production.  Not knowing anything about programming or Bioware's resources, I don't know how much it would cost them to allow total customization, have unique body models, and a default, iconic outfit that levels with the character.  I would imagine that spending the extra resources on that would result in another feature getting cut back (or cut out entirely).   Assuming finite resources, there's not really a way for everyone to win and not create a problem in another area. 

Out of curiosity, Fandango, how would you feel about the system that Laidlaw said was being considered, where equipped armor would have an effect on the look of the iconic armor?



Edited for spelling.

Modifié par Eollodwyn, 01 septembre 2011 - 10:00 .

[In Exile]

bEVEsthda wrote...
Yes too many toggles. There's no need for a toggle either. The DA:O system can handle it as it is. Just provide multiple 'iconic look' equipment with different stats but identical visuals, for those who find preserving iconic looks so precious. Why would the DA:O system need to be compromised? So that those players wanting iconic looks, can know that other players who don't want it are forced to have it anyway?

I have avoided commenting on the topic of this thread, but I can't avoid this comment.

This is precisely the kind of issue that cropped up in the previous thread: users deciding they know what's best and what tastes other users have.

The "issue" as you put it with having "iconic" look equipment is that it gimps builds and statistical customization, at the very least restricting what types of builds you can use and at worst giving you large swaths of the game where you have to choose between poor equipment or generic equipment.

It is no less forcing users to have an undesirable outcome than DA2 did, except suddenly your taste is the one cannonized so somehow that makes it okay.

While you are absolutely entitled to think that DA2 is gabage (and IMO, it had a lot of bad feature and some poorly implemented ones to boot), this kind of doubletalk is silly.

[In Exile]

Fandango9641 wrote...
Now thats interesting - does anyone have a link?

He only said we would have statistical customization but the apperance would be fixed. I'm pretty sure "statistical customization" just meant runes + belts, rings & necklaces, i.e. items that don't count. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Now thats interesting - does anyone have a link?

It was from a chat.  Soteria made a transcript somewhere.

In Exile wrote...

I have avoided commenting on the topic of this thread, but I can't avoid this comment.

This is precisely the kind of issue that cropped up in the previous thread: users deciding they know what's best and what tastes other users have.

The "issue" as you put it with having "iconic" look equipment is that it gimps builds and statistical customization, at the very least restricting what types of builds you can use and at worst giving you large swaths of the game where you have to choose between poor equipment or generic equipment.

It is no less forcing users to have an undesirable outcome than DA2 did, except suddenly your taste is the one cannonized so somehow that makes it okay.

bEVEsthda's proposal, there, wouldn't have forced anything on anyone, unless you count choice itself as a potentially undesireable feature.  He's suggesting that a DAO-style armour system, wherein there existed specific equipment with an iconic look for each character, would offer every player the choice to keep the iconic look or not, while allowing statistical customisation either way.

Unless having the option to customise appearance is somehow a bad thing, your objection is silly.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 01 septembre 2011 - 10:08 .

[devSin]

I voted "Hells, yes!"

Not because I read Mike's comments and thought "Hells, yes!" but because I read them and didn't think anything bad. That's like a "Hells, yes!" by default, isn't it?

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

He only said we would have statistical customization but the apperance would be fixed. I'm pretty sure "statistical customization" just meant runes + belts, rings & necklaces, i.e. items that don't count. 

He said statistical customisation "like DAO".  Granted, I think he was referring to ability to adjust the stats at all, not the ability to adjust the stats as much as DAO allowed, but that wasn't at all clear from his remarks.  I even made a point of saying that Mike had told us we'd get customisation like DAO as often as I could just to see if he's correct me, and he didn't.  So I was pretty surprised when we didn't get customisation like DAO in DA2.

[Anarya]

In Exile wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...
Now thats interesting - does anyone have a link?

He only said we would have statistical customization but the apperance would be fixed. I'm pretty sure "statistical customization" just meant runes + belts, rings & necklaces, i.e. items that don't count. 

Yeah as I recall this is what he said and we, the fans, made conjectures that it might include multiple outfits for each character (I believe Mike later clarified that this was only true in some cases) and that the stat customization encompassed all equipment slots.

So a lot of people thought(or hoped) we were getting a system like this for DA2, myself included. What we DID get was less than I wanted but not a major dealbreaker for me because I enjoyed the costume design. This proposed system is exactly what I wanted for DA2, assuming the alternate outfits are not simple recolors ala ME2 or minor changes like the "romanced" outfits for DA2. I'd also be curious to know what the parameters would be for unlocks ie. story-based, achievement based, friend/rival standing based, etc.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
bEVEsthda's proposal, there, wouldn't have forced anything on anyone, unless you count choice itself as a potentially undesireable feature.  He's suggesting that a DAO-style armour system, wherein there existed specific equipment with an iconic look for each character, would offer every player the choice to keep the iconic look or not, while allowing statistical customisation either way.

It would force a suboptimal playstyle at best, and a gimped playstyle at worst. 

Specific equipments of iconic armour would have specific stats. But, like with Morrigain, it could easily be terrible equipment for a particular build (like bloodmagic). And at that point you are either forced to abandon the build, have a suboptimal build, or lose the iconic appearance.

This does not even account for where the armour drops would be, which might force more gimped builds (again, like Morrrigain). 

Which is a terrible proposition. 

Unless having the option to customise appearance is somehow a bad thing, your objection is silly.

It is not about having options, but rather having options taken away. 

Modifié par In Exile, 01 septembre 2011 - 10:28 .

[willholt]

I must admit, having just checked out how the poll looks at this moment, I'm somewhat surprised by the result so far.

I really did get the impression (especially during the discussion in Mike's original thread) that only a few people where THAT bothered by having full visual AND stat customisation. It seemed that most seemed either OK, or resigned to and not too bothered by the proposed way forward.

The 417 votes so far is not a bad sample either. Hopefully we'll get it up to the same level of voting as the Voiced/Non-voiced poll.

The results of the voiced/non-voiced poll didn't really surprise me, as I always felt that the fanbase appeared to be quite evenly split on that issue... The poll kind of confirms that

I'm however very surprised that such a high percentage of people (52% at present) would actually be negative towards the companion look/armour proposal. More surprising is the 'Strongly Negative' which is standing at 41% at present... From a personal point of view I find it pleasing that so many share a similar view to me, but I'm REALLY surprised. I honestly thought that only a few were actually THAT bothered.

Strange! ...

Modifié par willholt, 01 septembre 2011 - 11:55 .

[Yrkoon]

Zanallen wrote...

At about 350 votes, it is pretty much 50/50 not counting the undecideds.

Well, as of now,  it's 52% negative, 41% positive.

And a minor correction: there's no "undecided" option.   It's a NEUTRAL   option.  Big difference.  Neutrals are people who don't mind either way, or  are otherwise fine with whatever  feature the future title encorporates.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 septembre 2011 - 12:01 .