235 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

United_Strafes wrote...

Where are these threads coming from, they're 2 totally seperate games who's similarity really ends at the sci-fi setting. The gameplay is not close to the same.

Both are RPGs. Both set in a sci-fi universe. That's really it.

[Ianamus]

Shepard Lives wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
 while Mass Effect's always tells you whether or not what your doing is right or wrong

What. WHAT.

Well, assigning things to paragon/renegade basically tells you "Blue= good-guy option Red= Bad-ass tough guy options"

theres no option to be a paragon who thinks mind-controlling the heretics is wrong, or a renegade who thinks that he can use the Rachni's debt for personal gain. Human Revelution let you justify things however you wanted, without the labels. 

It's most noticeable in the final mission. If you destory the base Shepard goes on about the "soul of our species", even if the only reason you saved the base was to spite the Illusive man. 

Il Divo wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...

Where are these threads coming from, they're 2 totally seperate games who's similarity really ends at the sci-fi setting. The gameplay is not close to the same.

Both are RPGs. Both set in a sci-fi universe. That's really it.

Both have a cover-based combat system, both feature a dialogue sytem that lets you influence events, both let you choose how the story play's out, how you advance your character...

They are very similar. Deus Ex just does many of those things better. 

Modifié par EJ107, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:06 .

[littlezack]

Never played it. I still find it annoying, though.

Also, the AI is a bit of a idiot-savant. They work good in gunfights, but they sometimes fall for rather simple tricks. I took out an entire gang by hiding, not shooting, waiting for them to investigate, then punching them in the face when they got too close.

Also find the battery thing annoying, but maybe that's just me.

[aridor1570]

EJ107 wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
 while Mass Effect's always tells you whether or not what your doing is right or wrong

What. WHAT.

Well, assigning things to paragon/renegade basically tells you "Blue= good-guy option Red= Bad-ass tough guy options"

theres no option to be a paragon who thinks mind-controlling the heretics is wrong, or a renegade who thinks that he can use the Rachni's debt for personal gain. Human Revelution let you justify things however you wanted, without the labels. 

It's most noticeable in the final mission. If you destory the base Shepard goes on about the "soul of our species", even if the only reason you saved the base was to spite the Illusive man. 

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

[United_Strafes]

Besides there are 2 threads talking about this:

http://social.biowar...3/index/8221325

http://social.biowar...3/index/8227026

Not only are they not closed they're sitting here on the first page.

Of course the other one was closed it was stupid.

I don't WANT to be stealthy in a Mass Effect game nor would I ever want to be, Deus Ex has multiple paths in combat situations because there's a reason why you wouldn't want to kill everyone on the screen.

Has this person PLAYED Deus Ex?

Conversation decisions in most cases:
Agressive
Indifferent
Agreeable
Hmmmmmmm ya that's a FAR stretch from what Mass Effect conversations give you.....lol.

Modifié par United_Strafes, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[marshalleck]

aridor1570 wrote...

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

That's because it's a decision without an outcome or any consequences. Sorry, you'll have to buy ME3 if you want to see how your decision plays out! (the geth will send you an email)

Modifié par marshalleck, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:08 .

[aridor1570]

marshalleck wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

That's because it's a decision without an outcome or any consequences. Sorry, you'll have to buy ME3 if you want to see how your decision plays out!

And I will, and I sure as hell know I won't feel bad about them.

[Ianamus]

aridor1570 wrote...

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

Of course it represents renegade- it gives you renegade points! 

Bioware are telling you that it is a renegade thing to do- no matter why you actually do it. 

Modifié par EJ107, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:09 .

[littlezack]

marshalleck wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

That's because it's a decision without an outcome or any consequences. Sorry, you'll have to buy ME3 if you want to see how your decision plays out!

That was kind of the point from the beginning.

[nelly21]

United_Strafes wrote...

Where are these threads coming from, they're 2 totally seperate games who's similarity really ends at the sci-fi setting. The gameplay is not close to the same.

Honestly, I think DX has more in common with Elder Scrolls than Mass Effect but whatever.

DX is the flavor of the month (and it is damn tasty). So logically everyone who hates ME 2 will call it the second coming. I do want to see Smud talk about some of the plotholes in DX though. Like how Jensen, who barely trusts people he works with allows Ru to sweet talk him before pushing him out of her panic room. This occurs of course right after he sees evidence, on video no less, of how neck deep in the conspiracy she is. But Smud won't talk about that. Because he's a tool.

Still DX is a good game. If ME wants to bring in some elements from it, I'm good with it.

[Rivercurse]

ME2 and DX3. Both are amazing examples of gamings emergence as a true art form.

I refuse to compare or 'vs' them on principle. Both are utterly superb.

[marshalleck]

littlezack wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

That's because it's a decision without an outcome or any consequences. Sorry, you'll have to buy ME3 if you want to see how your decision plays out!

That was kind of the point from the beginning.

No it wasn't, but that's a convenient excuse to employ. They sold Mass Effect on seeing how our decisions would shape the game world going forward; not 'the second game will have little connection to the first, and everything you've done will be pushed off to the third.' 

And they sure as heck didn't mention copious amounts of email.

[nelly21]

Rivercurse wrote...

ME2 and DX3. Both are amazing examples of gamings emergence as a true art form.

I refuse to compare or 'vs' them on principle. Both are utterly superb.

+.....

What is the maximum number of points we can give?

[redBadger14]

crimzontearz wrote...

deus ex lacks NG+....no purhase

No. Just no.

Deus Ex doesnt need it, because you can get 90% of your augmentations developed by the end of the game.

Now, as for the comparison debate. I completely agree there is elements to Deus Ex that are better than Mass Effect. However, the same goes vice versa. Everything you stated OP is correct; Deus Ex allows you to play Jensen as a hacker, as a stealth guy, or as full out combat. Granted, hacking and stealth cross-over each other a lot, but I encountered situations where if I explored more or knocked out more guards, I wouldnt have to hack my way into something, for instance. There is also a stand-off scene in Deus Ex that I completely avoided the guards by blocking off the only two entrances with vending machines and boxes. They never got in, and I just stood there for two minutes waiting for the elevator to arrive. Best satisfaction in a game, ever.

Now, clearly Mass Effect, or even Dragon Age, have a leg up on Deus Ex in many ways. For instance, replayability is higher because you have 6 character classes and 5(?) difficulties. The conversations, while not as vague and unforgiving as Deus Ex, have a leg up in the cinematic field (better animations and lip-syncing). Granted, that is purely a cosmetic, but it is something that some people use to immerse themselves into the game. There's also probably 10 times as many conversations in ME2 as there are in Deus Ex.

What Mass Effect does very well over Deus Ex is depth of story outside the main plot. In Deus Ex, the main focus in the main plotline; there isnt much care into the backstories of main characters outside of Adam Jensen, and the side-quests offer little exposition past the usual "go here, fetch this guy, kill this guy, get my money, come back to me, thanks." Mass Effect however goes in-depth with the characters and their backgrounds, side-quests offer great choice, albeit small ones, and even some side-quests have decsisions that branch out later in the game or over to the next game. Not to mention the wealth of knowledge in the Codex.

After playing Mass Effect, you feel like you know and are a part of the universe and its inhabitants, particularly Shepard and his companions. Deus Ex, you're just helping Adam Jensen unravel the biggest conspiracy to ever hit the augmented prosthetics business. Outside of that though, you only feel like you know Adam Jensen, and maybe Frank Pritchard, better. The other main characters were just people to help push the main plot along.

And don't get me started on the Deus Ex boss battles, the very important plot characters that only have about a couple unimportant "you must die" lines to say to Jensen, and one boss that says absolutely nothing and you dont even get their name. Whew, yeah, those were just the best parts of Deus Ex /endsarcasm

Anyway, yeah, theres my analysis. IMO, neither Mass Effect or Deus Ex is better than each other, but rather both have much to learn from the other.

[littlezack]

nelly21 wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...

Where are these threads coming from, they're 2 totally seperate games who's similarity really ends at the sci-fi setting. The gameplay is not close to the same.

Honestly, I think DX has more in common with Elder Scrolls than Mass Effect but whatever.

DX is the flavor of the month (and it is damn tasty). So logically everyone who hates ME 2 will call it the second coming. I do want to see Smud talk about some of the plotholes in DX though. Like how Jensen, who barely trusts people he works with allows Ru to sweet talk him before pushing him out of her panic room. This occurs of course right after he sees evidence, on video no less, of how neck deep in the conspiracy she is. But Smud won't talk about that. Because he's a tool.

Still DX is a good game. If ME wants to bring in some elements from it, I'm good with it.

Yeah, that was annoying. And then the guards show up, and they instantly know where you are. And there I am with just a silenced pistol, a flash grenade, and a really powerful assualt rifle...with eighteen shots. FUN.

[Varen Spectre]

String910 wrote...

If Deus Ex gets the GOTY Award then yes, we can say it's better or at least equal with ME2, but we all know it won't.

As Mister Mida nicely pointed out... Geting awards in itself may not mean the better quality. 

Not only that people who give them may have different tastes than you or me or even majority of gaming community (e.g. magazines that gave GoTY 2010 to games like SMG2 or AC2), but more importantly, the competition between the years may vary greatly.

This year will seem to have one of the strongest line-ups ever. I for example have easily considered Mass Effect 2 to be by far the best game of 2010 and even made a thread promoting voting for it here... Would I do it if Mass Effect 2 competed this year? With games like The Witcher 2, I am not that sure...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the topic itself, I can't wait to finaly try new Deus Ex. Once I do, hopefully I could participate in the discussion with much more valuable content than nitpicking other posters' inaccuracies.

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:16 .

[littlezack]

marshalleck wrote...

littlezack wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

That's because it's a decision without an outcome or any consequences. Sorry, you'll have to buy ME3 if you want to see how your decision plays out!

That was kind of the point from the beginning.

No it wasn't, but that's a convenient excuse to employ. They sold Mass Effect on seeing how our decisions would shape the game world going forward; not 'the second game will have little connection to the first, and everything you've done will be pushed off to the third.' 

Because nothing in ME1 came back in ME2. Only in emails. Right.

[aridor1570]

EJ107 wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

Of course it represents renegade- it gives you renegade points! 

Bioware are telling you that it is a renegade thing to do- no matter why you actually do it. 

You've said that ME presents you with the right or wrong decisions, that's impossible since you've said the renegade on is the wrong one, while I, on a full paragon run chose the renegade choice because it felt like the best solution to the heratic problem.

[nelly21]

littlezack wrote...

Yeah, that was annoying. And then the guards show up, and they instantly know where you are. And there I am with just a silenced pistol, a flash grenade, and a really powerful assualt rifle...with eighteen shots. FUN.

Lol. I was lucky, I went in with the revolver and the shotty. Hardly had to use them since I played the sneaky type. But still, that did suck.

Still, great game.

[Shepard Lives]

EJ107 wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

EJ107 wrote...
 while Mass Effect's always tells you whether or not what your doing is right or wrong

What. WHAT.

Well, assigning things to paragon/renegade basically tells you "Blue= good-guy option Red= Bad-ass tough guy options"

theres no option to be a paragon who thinks mind-controlling the heretics is wrong, or a renegade who thinks that he can use the Rachni's debt for personal gain. Human Revelution let you justify things however you wanted, without the labels. 

It's most noticeable in the final mission. If you destory the base Shepard goes on about the "soul of our species", even if the only reason you saved the base was to spite the Illusive man. 

I disagree.

The dialogue wheel has a "Spare the Rachni" option. It indicates what Shepard will do. Does it indicate why? Does it say "Spare the Rachni because I could never commit genocide" or "Spare the Rachni because I want an army of unstoppable bugs at my command"? No.
Of course, if you pick the option Shepard might say "I'll save you because I don't want to commit genocide", but that's a natural limitation of the game. The devs can't include every possible reason in a line of dialogue.

Shepard's words might be set in stone, but his motivations are almost always yours to decide. If you want to roleplay, you have to be creative in your use of the options provided by the developers. If you think performing a Paragon action means your Shepard is a Paragon just because of a meter in the character screen, you and I have a very different notion of roleplaying.

[Cutlass Jack]

Rivercurse wrote...

ME2 and DX3. Both are amazing examples of gamings emergence as a true art form.

I refuse to compare or 'vs' them on principle. Both are utterly superb.

^This is a very wise person. One would do well to listen to them.

[Calamity Abounds]

    I'll never understand why people believe the industry should operate on the "There can only be one!" mentality. Comparing two games by way of critique is great. Comparing two games by bashing them against each other is idiotic. There are several nit pick issues I had with Deus Ex for example. It felt like there was a super awesome optimal way you had to play regardless of how you approached a situation. I see you knocked out the guards and got the girl back but what you should have done is upgrade your speech aug, persuaded them to let her go and we would have given you bonus xp even though you still accomplished the objective very well. Also Jensen's voice killed me. I can't stand that Bale Batman-esque raspy timbre of ones voice to make them sound more mysterious and cool just to name a couple.

    Does that mean Deus Ex is a terrible game? No. Does that mean there will be people who like/don't care about that. Yes. Will there be stuff that that Mass Effect 3 will do right wrong that I will enjoy/not enjoy? Yes. Will there be people who agree/diasgree with me. Yes and that is just fine. My big thing to remember is that while there are a few gripes I have about the game it was a great edition to the franchise that cleansed my pallet of Invisible War. Nothing will ever be perfect but that doesn't take away from how good/bad the game is. people forget that critiquing is not a terrible word. How many times did you get an essay back in college riddled with notes on how to improve it and still got a 98 on it?


Edit: Made it look less giant wall of text like. Also my first line is a general statement, not directed at any member of the BSN. Its rather shameful I have to put up the disclaimer but open hostility is quite the fad these days.

Modifié par Calamity Abounds, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:33 .

[littlezack]

nelly21 wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Yeah, that was annoying. And then the guards show up, and they instantly know where you are. And there I am with just a silenced pistol, a flash grenade, and a really powerful assualt rifle...with eighteen shots. FUN.

Lol. I was lucky, I went in with the revolver and the shotty. Hardly had to use them since I played the sneaky type. But still, that did suck.

Still, great game.

After dying like...seven times, I finally just said **** it, leaped down and cut them off before they could get up the stairs, making use of the AI's stupidity to pick them off.

'Hm. Well, this guy picked off three of my friends when they went to investigate and see if he was dead. Maybe I should slowly walk up the stairs, too. I'm sure that'll go well.'

[United_Strafes]

Whatever they're 2 seperate games.

Modifié par United_Strafes, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:24 .

[redBadger14]

aridor1570 wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

aridor1570 wrote...

The hell are you talking about? those decisions don't represent Paragon or Renegade, I did a full on paragon run destroying the heratics, and I didn't feel like it was the wrong desition.

Of course it represents renegade- it gives you renegade points! 

Bioware are telling you that it is a renegade thing to do- no matter why you actually do it. 

You've said that ME presents you with the right or wrong decisions, that's impossible since you've said the renegade on is the wrong one, while I, on a full paragon run chose the renegade choice because it felt like the best solution to the heratic problem.

I think what he means is that Mass Effect shouldn't come out and say "That was a RENEGADE decsision, RENEGADE points for you!" ... rather it should be an ambiguous choice that hinges on what the player thinks is right or wrong.