235 réponses à ce sujet

[Ianamus]

aridor1570 wrote...

You've said that ME presents you with the right or wrong decisions, that's impossible since you've said the renegade on is the wrong one, while I, on a full paragon run chose the renegade choice because it felt like the best solution to the heratic problem.

Maybe "right/wrong" isn't the right term. What is does do is try to justify your decisions for you. I already gave you the example of the collector base: No matter why you choose to destroy the base, Shepard tells the Illusive man that it is to preserve the soul of their species- even if your playing a renegade who just did it to get back at the illusive man. 

The problem is that instead of just giving you options, and letting you choose situationally, they give you paragon and renegade. Bascically saying "If your Paragon- you should choose this and if your renegade you should choose this"

Obviously you can choose whatever you want- but then you can end up in "neutral zone" and since persuasion is linked to paragon/renegade you feel almost forced to choose one side.

In Human revelution you could just choose, and persuation had nothing to do with your moral compass. You could also tell other people why you chose to do something a certain way, rather than having the game assume you did it for a certain reason. 

redBadger14 wrote...

I think what he means is that Mass Effect shouldn't come out and say "That was a RENEGADE decsision, RENEGADE points for you!" ... rather it should be an ambiguous choice that hinges on what the player thinks is right or wrong.

yes, this is exactly what I'm trying to say. 

Modifié par EJ107, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:33 .

[littlezack]

Also, Deus' load times can go to hell.

[TheChris92]

I like both Deus Ex & Mass Effect. Why people always have to compare Mass Effect & Dragon Age with non-BioWare RPGs, and be cynically superior toward the former in the process is beyond me. Can't we just get along?

[Cutlass Jack]

littlezack wrote...

Also, Deus' load times can go to hell.

Did you get the current patch? Fixed that problem right up. Was hell before that.

[nelly21]

littlezack wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Yeah, that was annoying. And then the guards show up, and they instantly know where you are. And there I am with just a silenced pistol, a flash grenade, and a really powerful assualt rifle...with eighteen shots. FUN.

Lol. I was lucky, I went in with the revolver and the shotty. Hardly had to use them since I played the sneaky type. But still, that did suck.

Still, great game.

After dying like...seven times, I finally just said **** it, leaped down and cut them off before they could get up the stairs, making use of the AI's stupidity to pick them off.

'Hm. Well, this guy picked off three of my friends when they went to investigate and see if he was dead. Maybe I should slowly walk up the stairs, too. I'm sure that'll go well.'

There's a vent you can use to attack them from. I just snuck past them but the AI deals terribly with attacks from vents. When you have control, you go down to the level overlooking the floor with the now swarming guards and to the right there is the vent.

[redBadger14]

United_Strafes wrote...

Whatever they're 2 seperate games.

Yeah, I saw your original post, and yes I am playing the same Deus Ex. Don't bash me for what I am seeing in the game as opposed to you. If you see different, then that's your viewpoint and I will do well to respect it.

[littlezack]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Also, Deus' load times can go to hell.

Did you get the current patch? Fixed that problem right up. Was hell before that.

I'm on Xbox, haven't seen a patch. Haven't played in a few days, though. Typically save my RPG playing for weekends.

[aridor1570]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Also, Deus' load times can go to hell.

Did you get the current patch? Fixed that problem right up. Was hell before that.

Yeah, heard about that, luckily for me the game was unlocked right after that patch came in.

[United_Strafes]

Oh no you're totally right, I love the clipping, jerky, everyone has a rubber mask on conversations! You're right the NPCs in Deus Ex are just "spot on", It will be interesting to see if a texture is included on characters in the future.

Modifié par United_Strafes, 01 septembre 2011 - 04:32 .

[SNascimento]

96 > 89.
.
I don't think Deus Ex HR is better than even ME1. Although I knew from the moment reviews started coming up that that would be topics like these.

[Ciryx]

You cant really compare these two titles.
The gameplay is vastly different, as are the interactions with the gameworld.

The only things that are imo compareable can be found in the narrative.
And honestly, I think DX:HR did a better job here. Its not as good as in the First DX but I really love that decicions in DX:HR are not about SAINT WAY/JERK WAY, but have all their pros and cons. All four Endings of the game for example have indeed positive as well as negativ aspects.

You have to form your own opinion as a Player about the things happening in DX:HR and choose - according to those opinions- your further actions. Thats imo the biggest difference between these games.

[Cutlass Jack]

littlezack wrote...

Yeah, that was annoying. And then the guards show up, and they instantly know where you are. And there I am with just a silenced pistol, a flash grenade, and a really powerful assualt rifle...with eighteen shots. FUN.

Funny story about that segment. I saw the big empty room, and feeling paranoid about the two elevator doors behind me, I tossed a gas mine between them and promptly forgot about it.

Following that cutscene, I hear the guards announce their presence and then....it got oddly quiet. I heading back to the elevators I was greeted with this funny scene:

[KingDan97]

Speaking soley on the basis of what's come along as far as ME3 so far.

EJ107 wrote...

When Bioware made Mass Effect 2 they simplified many of the RPG features, focusing on improving the combat, but then Deus: Ex Human revolution comes out with not only a better cover-based combat system, but better RPG features as well. 

Mass Effect 3's cover system seems to be coming along fine, with options of relative stealth(pretty damn hard to sneak along every single wall as a group of 3, one possibly being a Krogan and expect to not be seen). You now have the option of stealth kills, multilevel flanking as well as the return of the Infiltrator stealth powers. They've polished up movement in cover, allowing you to roll to other cover, turn corners along with attacking from behind it.

As for DX, I haven't gotten to pick up a copy of HR has my local GS was all out of 360 copies and it would wreck my PC, hard. What I do know however is that it's been in development at least since before Fallout 3 was released because the DX team sent them a cake with Vault-Boy(as he's been redubbed) dressed as Adam. That much time for refinement of systems would lead to an expected level of polish as they've had the ability to look at what other games have been doing and adjust accordingly.

All I will say definitvely is that, at least on paper, ME3's cover seems to be coming along just fine, and that with the evolution trees and weapon mods and armor customization I would argue that it's RPG features are strong enough as well, assuming that it's story and dialogue stays as strong.

It has a dialogue system that allows you to justify your actions however you want, while Mass Effect's always tells you whether or not what your doing is right or wrong. It also makes you think carefully about what you choose, and the conversations matter. 

Paragon and Renegade are not in my mind right/wrong. None of the choices a renegade makes are nearly stupid or arbitrary like Fallout 3's "evil' options, which are basically just being a cloaca(I mean seriously, destroying a town you couldn't even see because it was an eyesore?). Paragon=Idealist, Renegade=All costs.

The cover system is much better, and allows you to be stealthy as well as direct. The inventory isn't a pain like Mass Effect 1's, and gives you far more customisation and choices than ME2. 

ME3 is confirmed to be bringing back all previous weapons and will undoubtedly expand even further beyond it(at the least there's the 4 N7 pack weapons and the 3 from the background of the N7 ops page of the ME site). Then there's the weapon mods, which will likely be as expansive as ME1's without being as frustrating as they were. At the least we know we'll be able to put on bayonettes, scopes, extended clips, silencers and more. The loss of armor powers is nothing to take ire over imo because now you can change to fit the situation on the fly.


Again though, basing an opinion of a game that has had it's faults repeated day in and day out for over a year and expecting none of them to be fixed is foolish.

[nelly21]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Yeah, that was annoying. And then the guards show up, and they instantly know where you are. And there I am with just a silenced pistol, a flash grenade, and a really powerful assualt rifle...with eighteen shots. FUN.

Funny story about that segment. I saw the big empty room, and feeling paranoid about the two elevator doors behind me, I tossed a gas mine between them and promptly forgot about it.

Following that cutscene, I hear the guards announce their presence and then....it got oddly quiet. I heading back to the elevators I was greeted with this funny scene:

LOL!!!

NICE!!! Way to use your psychic augmentation

[LGTX]

You mean a game that has been in development since BEFORE ME1 came out, and was released two years AFTER ME2, is better than the latter?

I agree that some elements may be better than others, from both games, but saying BioWare COULD have done more than they did BECAUSE DX:HR did it is a lame argument O_O

[Mister Mida]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Funny story about that segment. I saw the big empty room, and feeling paranoid about the two elevator doors behind me, I tossed a gas mine between them and promptly forgot about it.

Following that cutscene, I hear the guards announce their presence and then....it got oddly quiet. I heading back to the elevators I was greeted with this funny scene:

*snip*

LOL, that's awesome. I completed the game now once and I have to admit that I never bothered much with mines or grenades. They only came in real handy when I had to go against that annoying boss who thinks she's a Vanguard.

[Heather Cline]

I like ME1 it was a great game, still is. ME2... good combat system but story fell flat and rpg mechanics were removed along with s/s romances. Still a good game but not as good as ME1. As for Deus Ex. Haven't played it, probably won't because I can't choose my own gender. I'm a real fan of rpg's that allow gender choice these days. Back in the day when rpg's forced you to play the lead character as a male I played them. However these days I choose games based on how much enjoyment I'll get out of them.

Also though Deus Ex seems like a good game I never compare one game to another. Each game has it's flaws and charms. It's like comparing an orange to an apple. Both have great flavors but neither two are alike.

[javierabegazo]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Yeah, that was annoying. And then the guards show up, and they instantly know where you are. And there I am with just a silenced pistol, a flash grenade, and a really powerful assualt rifle...with eighteen shots. FUN.

Funny story about that segment. I saw the big empty room, and feeling paranoid about the two elevator doors behind me, I tossed a gas mine between them and promptly forgot about it.

Following that cutscene, I hear the guards announce their presence and then....it got oddly quiet. I heading back to the elevators I was greeted with this funny scene:

Lol!! this is awesome Did you get the XP for this or no?

[TheChris92]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Yeah, that was annoying. And then the guards show up, and they instantly know where you are. And there I am with just a silenced pistol, a flash grenade, and a really powerful assualt rifle...with eighteen shots. FUN.

Funny story about that segment. I saw the big empty room, and feeling paranoid about the two elevator doors behind me, I tossed a gas mine between them and promptly forgot about it.

Following that cutscene, I hear the guards announce their presence and then....it got oddly quiet. I heading back to the elevators I was greeted with this funny scene:

This pic kinda reminds me of the first Metal Gear Solid. 

[nelly21]

Mister Mida wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Funny story about that segment. I saw the big empty room, and feeling paranoid about the two elevator doors behind me, I tossed a gas mine between them and promptly forgot about it.

Following that cutscene, I hear the guards announce their presence and then....it got oddly quiet. I heading back to the elevators I was greeted with this funny scene:

*snip*

LOL, that's awesome. I completed the game now once and I have to admit that I never bothered much with mines or grenades. They only came in real handy when I had to go against that annoying boss who thinks she's a Vanguard.

Mines are pretty good for the robots. As stupid as human enemies are in Deus Ex, robots are even dumber. So a robot marches your way, drop the mine in the path (or even throw it right at them) and watch them turn to junk. You would think someone would program them with a detect mine algorithim.

[Ianamus]

LGTX wrote...

You mean a game that has been in development since BEFORE ME1 came out, and was released two years AFTER ME2, is better than the latter?

I agree that some elements may be better than others, from both games, but saying BioWare COULD have done more than they did BECAUSE DX:HR did it is a lame argument O_O

So what- if a game was made in seven days, and given the same price as a game that took two years to make, we can't compare the quality? 

What bull. I paid the same ammount for both games- I don't care how long they were in development for. All I care about is the finished product. 

And my argument isn't that Bioware could have done more. I'm not arguing anything. I'm comparing the two games and saying that I believe Human revelution did several things better than Mass Effect. 

[Cutlass Jack]

javierabegazo wrote...

Lol!! this is awesome Did you get the XP for this or no?

Oh yeah. I think I got a full 30 seconds worth of 'update' spam as I got all the bonuses for each unit going down nonlethaly and fast. Had to take the screenie since it couldn't have gone better if I actually planned it.

In fact most of the other times I played with mines usually ended up with me accidently triggering myself.

[stonbw1]

Question: does the replay value of DxHR seem better than ME2? I know, just opinion, but am curious.

[Fiery Phoenix]

stonbw1 wrote...

Question: does the replay value of DxHR seem better than ME2? I know, just opinion, but am curious.

I haven't played the game yet but from what I have heard, not nearly so. Most reviews seem to suggest that it's one of those games that are great to play through once but after that it kind of gets old. I don't know if that's really the case; I'd have to try it myself but I can't justify buying Dues Ex just yet (got a few games to play first).

[javierabegazo]

EJ107 wrote...

Well, the other person's thread was locked, probably due to the inflammatory title and offensive wording, but I felt that he had some good points, and that this deserves to be discussed properly. 

When Bioware made Mass Effect 2 they simplified many of the RPG features, focusing on improving the combat, but then Deus: Ex Human revolution comes out with not only a better cover-based combat system, but better RPG features as well.

It has a dialogue system that allows you to justify your actions however you want, while Mass Effect's always tells you whether or not what your doing is right or wrong. It also makes you think carefully about what you choose, and the conversations matter. 

On this front, I believe Deus Ex has bested the Mass Effect franchise with it's moral dilemmas, choosing an EMOTION for dialog rather than paraphrases that correspond to Good or Clint Eastwood life long fan, and it's wonderful to see NPC's gesture, and move about, and really express their feelings, as they're talking. but this is an issue I've taken from Mass Effect from the beginning, which isn't really Mass Effect, but more to deal with BioWare's tendancy (with DA as an exception) for a Light side/ Dark side moral dichotomy.

The cover system is much better, and allows you to be stealthy as well as direct. The inventory isn't a pain like Mass Effect 1's, and gives you far more customisation and choices than ME2. 

Mass Effect is not and was never a stealth game. More options and variability in combat is great and wonderful, but You're a squad of 3, I never expected to creep through vents and go through levels without taking a shot.

That you can roleplay in DE as someone who refuses to take a life if he can help it, is incredible and wonderful, and I wish more games offered that option, but if you're running a game with a SQUAD of AI controlled henchmen, you've really got no choice but to remove the "Knock out" option.

You can upgrade yourself and your weapons to a far greater extent than Mass Effect 2.

It's popular and praised despite being fairly complex, and I think that it really has put Mass Effect to shame. Other than a few issues I had with it (The ending didn't have enough closure with certain characters, and you couldn't customise Adam and make him more your character) I'm really worried that Mass Effect 3 won't be half the game it is. 

In the end, Mass Effect and DE are two different beasts, and I'm happy for that. Personally, I think DE has more of a nailed down aesthetic, which for me, is incredible. Their world feels more lived in. You walk into an office, and you find notes, and files on the desk, and a snack bar in the drawer. ME never gave you this.

But for me, it's ok, I don't play Mass Effect if I want to sneak around and be "a citizen" of a game world.