322 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

simfamSP wrote...

They aren't going for DA2 + Origins = DA3.
No, they are going for Origins + Feedback of DA2 = 3.

I don't know where you see that.

They are going with DA2+ or DA2 Enhanced/improved/more iconic/even more innovation.

I am not saying that is a bad thing. It's just from all they have posted so far that is what I gather from it.

Also fan feedback is all well and fine but the focus groups seem to be the best measure of change/no change.

[filetemo]

At a social gathering, Marilyn Monroe and Albert Einstein crossed, she suggested the following to him:

"What do you think professor, we should get married and have a child together. Can you imagine a baby with my beauty and your intelligence? ".

Einstein replied very seriously:

"Unfortunately I fear that the experiment comes out the other way and end up with a child with my beauty and your intelligence."

[element eater]

on reading your post i think it will be more like 

DA2 + feedback = DA3

and i think so far at least this seems born out from the information we've seen come from the devs. After all the new companion customisation while an improvement on what we have currently seems to be a revised version of DA2's system more than anything. Additionaly its been stated that the art direction is unlikely to change much so it seems like we'll be sticking with da2 in that regard aswell.

Modifié par element eater, 01 septembre 2011 - 11:19 .

[LobselVith8]

I'm surprised David Gaider doesn't try to kill me in your OP. I'm fairly certain he hates all of my threads and criticisms about Dragon Age 2.

As for what you said, I suppose it could go either way - the lack of any meaningful choice in Legacy, along with the "two endings" leading to the same conclusion and a "Shepherding Wolves" redux, doesn't inspire much hope in me, however.

[Atakuma]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm surprised David Gaider doesn't try to kill me in your OP. I'm fairly certain he hates all of my threads and criticisms about Dragon Age 2.

As for what you said, I suppose it could go either way - the lack of any meaningful choice in Legacy, along with the "two endings" leading to the same conclusion and a "Shepherding Wolves" redux, doesn't inspire much hope in me, however.

All bioware games lack meaningful choice, the problem is that DA2 didn't even try to pretend otherwise.

[Apollo Starflare]

Yeah, the feedback part is important. Since DA2 I've seen a fair few people try and suggest BioWare don't really listen to it (ME2 seemed to kick this off actually), however that's not the way I've seen it. Perhaps the more reasonable explanation is that they don't always listen to the feedback some fans want them to hear? If so then we are back to not really knowing which way DA3 will go as plenty of people like the way DA2 plays, they just don't like the rushed/unpolished bits.

My opinion is that it -will- end up falling between Origins and DA2 as far as gameplay goes. Storywise, characters, art style, for me whatever changes may have occured in those areas between the previous two games are irrelevant because I never felt like I wasn't playing a BioWare game set in the world of Dragon Age. I don't expect that to change for DA3 and so I tend not to worry about it at all.

The feedback from DA2 and Legacy will play a huge part in defining DA3 I think, in fact it could even run the risk of making it too much an example of 'trying to please everyone' although I tend to veer on the optimistic side of 'the best of both worlds'. Frankly I'm not even sure there is two worlds here, at least not as defined as some would suggest.

That for me is why I can't grasp the arguments going around at the moment that debate whether DA3 will be DA2 + or DAO2. It'll be DA3, plain and simple. Another entry in an imaginative franchise that'll push some boundries and adhere closely to others. It'll continue to build off what has gone before in BOTH games, and due to the nature of the dev team working on it will also reach in new (and no doubt sometimes unexpected) directions. Adding in the feedback from the fanbase is something that is a natural part of that, although it'll naturally attract more attention in this case than usual due to the mixed reception DA2 received. However at the end of the day it is a BioWare game, not a BioWare Social game, crafted by Mike and his team with their own vision of what it should be. If they say they are aiming roughly for gameplay somewhere inbetween DAO and DA2 (seemingly by, mostly, just improving the things that worked best in both titles and polishing like mad) then I'll believe them until the game shows me different. But then I can be hopelessly optimistic and still see so much potential (both fulfilled and yet to be fully realised) in the changes to formula seen in DA2.

[Vicious]

l bioware games lack meaningful choice, the problem is that DA2 didn't even try to pretend otherwise.

Awesome post.

Mash the popular stuff from DA:O and the popular stuff from DA2 together and well, you've got one hell of a game provided you take your time crafting it.

[devSin]

FieryDove and element eater have it right.

Dragon Age II is the foundation for the series going forward. They may bring back some features from Origins and improve or add others still, but this is it, folks.

Is it going to be a better game? It better be. Is it going to be fundamentally different? No, it won't.

Modifié par devSin, 02 septembre 2011 - 01:07 .

[Mike3207]

devSin wrote...

FieryDove and element eater have it right.

Dragon Age II is the foundation for the series going forward. They may bring back some features from Origins and improve or add others still, but this is it, folks.

Is it going to be a better game? It better be. Is it going to be fundamentally different? No, it won't.

If all they do is give DA2 a facelift, expect a considerable number of fans to spend their $60 on something else. A lot of people want a near equal split in features or greater in favor of DAO. I just want to forget about DA2.

[csfteeeer]

If DA3 looks too much like DA2, then they can expect a bunch of fans ignoring it all together, and anyone who didn't liked DA2 and was even remotely interested in DA3 will looking somewhere else, affecting DA3's sales greatly.

Many people out there will not be paying much attention to something that, chances are, they are not going to like, and many people who liked Origins do not have any interest in DA3 because of DA2.

[Kilshrek]

I dunno, already they want to keep the art style of DA 2, which is a major issue to me. DA 3 combat will have to be quite different again (because I honestly can't understand the justification for having such over the top combat animations).

And this we won't know until much later, but action and reaction, as was covered recently, must be looked at with a microscope. If giving me choice A, B or C still leads to event D, what's the point of giving me that much choice?

[devSin]

Mike Smith wrote...

If all they do is give DA2 a facelift, expect a considerable number of fans to spend their $60 on something else. A lot of people want a near equal split in features or greater in favor of DAO. I just want to forget about DA2.

You be living in the fantasy land, then, my friend.

Everything they've stated so far is how to refine and polish the DA2 experience going forward. There is no "near equal split" or any such nonsense. Now maybe the polish will come in such a way that it seems to you to be closer to Origins (I honestly have no idea what that even means, because I have no idea what "features" you consider distinct between the two), but the foundation will still definitely be DA2.

Modifié par devSin, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:20 .

[dheer]

devSin wrote...

Mike Smith wrote...
If all they do is give DA2 a facelift, expect a considerable number of fans to spend their $60 on something else. A lot of people want a near equal split in features or greater in favor of DAO. I just want to forget about DA2.

You be living in the fantasy land, then, my friend.

Everything they've stated so far is how to refine and polish the DA2 experience going forward. There is no "near equal split" or any such nonsense. Now maybe the polish will come in such a way that it seems to you to be closer to Origins (I honestly have no idea what that even means, because I have no idea what "features" you consider distinct between the two), but the foundation will still definitely be DA2.

They have said they've heard the feedback about people wanting a game more in the style of DA1 and that they can not ignore it. A facelift of DA2 will not cut it for a large part of their audience and I think Bioware knows it.

There are some things DA2 did well and the dev team should build on them. It also did some things really poorly. They could go back and improve on the solid base DA1 had in these situations or try for something different from both games. Hopefully something better, in that case.

Modifié par dheer, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:32 .

[Willybot]

simfamSP wrote...

....until they abandon RPGs all together and focus on Mass Effect.

I don't know why, but this particular line made me giggle.

[Yrkoon]

dheer wrote...

devSin wrote...

Mike Smith wrote...
If all they do is give DA2 a facelift, expect a considerable number of fans to spend their $60 on something else. A lot of people want a near equal split in features or greater in favor of DAO. I just want to forget about DA2.

You be living in the fantasy land, then, my friend.

Everything they've stated so far is how to refine and polish the DA2 experience going forward. There is no "near equal split" or any such nonsense. Now maybe the polish will come in such a way that it seems to you to be closer to Origins (I honestly have no idea what that even means, because I have no idea what "features" you consider distinct between the two), but the foundation will still definitely be DA2.

They have said they've heard the feedback about people wanting a game more in the style of DA1 and that they can not ignore it. A facelift of DA2 will not cut it for a large part of their audience and I think Bioware knows it.

There are some things DA2 did well and the dev team should build on them. It also did some things really poorly. They could go back and improve on the solid base DA1 had in these situations or try for something different from both games. Hopefully something better, in that case.

I agree.  DA2 with a facelift could be a financial  failure.  Does anyone here really think they're gonna get 400,000 pre-orders  to boost  day 1 sales like they did with DA2?

They really *do* have to start from scratch and prove themselves all over again.


To the OP:  Yes.  I really  hope that the mountain....  no, the mountain range  of feedback here becomes  as important as you  believe it will be.  Because that will make all the difference in the world.  But the cynic in me still thinks that at the end of the day, the Visions of EA will speak louder than fan feedback and the result will be a bizzare juggling act on the part of Bioware to see how much of the feedback they can incorporate while still maintaining EA's vision.

I'm skeptical that we'll get anything more than DA2 with embeleshments.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 septembre 2011 - 04:10 .

[ipgd]

simfamSP wrote...

We'll see David Gaider working for Obsidian and Mike Laidlaw in jail for murdering Sylvius the mad

I think you've got that backwards. I'm pretty sure Gaider would beat Laidlaw to taking out Sylvius, unless he has his hands tied assassinating IanPolaris first.

Laidlaw would go on to a career in law, because seriously, how do you choose to go into game design with a name like that. That is the biggest wasted opportunity of all time. Think of the bad puns.

Modifié par ipgd, 02 septembre 2011 - 04:13 .

[devSin]

dheer wrote...

They have said they've heard the feedback about people wanting a game more in the style of DA1 and that they can not ignore it. A facelift of DA2 will not cut it for a large part of their audience and I think Bioware knows it.

I think you may be hearing a bit more of what you want to hear than what is actually being said?

They've heard specific criticisms. There are elements of roleplaying that are lacking in DA2 that they'd like to refine. There are storytelling routes they promise to try to not take.

"The style of DA1" is unfortunately meaningless. And as far as I'm aware, they have not once said anything about making a game in the "style" of Origins.

What they have said, and said often, is that they hope to continue with the work they've done for DA2 and improve the areas that weren't sufficient and address some of the major criticisms. If that means restoring some Origins functionality, then they'll do that (although it wouldn't necessarily return exactly as it was in Origins). But I haven't heard them speak as if they expect to really need to do that very often.

Modifié par devSin, 02 septembre 2011 - 04:32 .

[leggywillow]

ipgd wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

We'll see David Gaider working for Obsidian and Mike Laidlaw in jail for murdering Sylvius the mad

I think you've got that backwards. I'm pretty sure Gaider would beat Laidlaw to taking out Sylvius, unless he has his hands tied assassinating IanPolaris first.

Laidlaw would go on to a career in law, because seriously, how do you choose to go into game design with a name like that. That is the biggest wasted opportunity of all time. Think of the bad puns.

Or Laidlaw could become a vigilante.  He could deliver some really awesome one-liners before a kill.

[Anarya]

ipgd wrote...

Laidlaw would go on to a career in law, because seriously, how do you choose to go into game design with a name like that. That is the biggest wasted opportunity of all time. Think of the bad puns.

The mind reels!

I have a good feeling about DA3. I think, provided the dev team is given a sufficiently long dev cycle and appropriate budget, it'll be great.

[Bryy_Miller]

leggywillow wrote...

ipgd wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

We'll see David Gaider working for Obsidian and Mike Laidlaw in jail for murdering Sylvius the mad

I think you've got that backwards. I'm pretty sure Gaider would beat Laidlaw to taking out Sylvius, unless he has his hands tied assassinating IanPolaris first.

Laidlaw would go on to a career in law, because seriously, how do you choose to go into game design with a name like that. That is the biggest wasted opportunity of all time. Think of the bad puns.

Or Laidlaw could become a vigilante.  He could deliver some really awesome one-liners before a kill.

No.

Boblaw and Laidlaw and Associates. 

[Xewaka]

devSin wrote...
Is it going to be a better game? It better be.

It's not that hard to make a game better than DA 2.
(Zing!)