322 réponses à ce sujet

[jbrand2002uk]

@Yrkoon no offence taken, i do happen to be an RPG fan having played them since the pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons, maybe my view of same old same old is a result of having played them that long,

I agree that while all FPS share the same core mechanics( 1st person perspective, guns etc) and most have either been set in real conflicts(WW2 Vietnam etc) or Sci-Fi( Star Wars Republic Commando spings to mind) each succeeding game still had an air of Freshness to it whether it was a small tweek one way or a complete Paradigm shift, Take being able to explode an enemies butt hole in Bulletstorm for example, which was totally pointless but fun nonetheless.

Where at least to me Origins just didn't feel like it brought anything to the raft of traditional RPG's the story was typical generic fare ( become a hero save the world from impending doom) the characters were also generic with humans, elf, dwarf and the qunari filling the aggresive roid-head monster niche, and then throw in some dragons witches for good measure.

And no matter how much i played it, tried so hard to love it still felt like a case of been there killed that, saved that and got the T-shirt for the 100th time hence the Stale remark.
As much as i enjoy RPG's and prefere them over the run in a blow said enemies head off, pose and offer witty remark style of most FPS when i played COD 1,2 and 3 despite each being set in WW2 they felt different from both each other and also from other FPS brands like MoH or Battlefield.
Where DAO just at least to me didn't have that in the slightest.

But its main failing was the combat,killing enemies is pretty much a given at some point in most RPG's, some to a greater extent than others and despite all the patches and DLC DAO's combat was just so lacklustre it was as if it was tacked on as an afterthought at the expense of a "great entralling rip roaring story" which when all is said and done was far to generic and cliche'd to even be "great"
Then there's the levels themselves, I'm sure we're all familiar with the complaints level'd at DAO's Fade section as its became known and that sums up pretty much every level in the game:
Oh looks its big great, no constant re-use of textures great followed by the thought of which idiot thought that making a huge level with almost nothing in it of any interest whatsoever that I'll die of boredom because there's nothing to do at all before i finish it.

Overall not a total waste of time but given the 4 years spent developing it should have been 10 times better than it was which was a great big £65 let down because i found the old pen and paper D&D from 20 years ago a far more entertaining RPG to play and it sure as hell didnt take 4 years to make ,or cost anything near £65 or run up an electric bill whenever i wanted to play it and best of all if i wanted to i could take it on holiday anywhere without needing a large car boot to put a computer in or a plug socket wherever i was going to plug it in.

[Persephone]

Gunderic wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

devSin wrote...
Is it going to be a better game? It better be.

It's not that hard to make a game better than DA 2.
(Zing!)

And yet many people fail to do it.

Who exactly? Who fails to make a better RPG than DA 2? 

Pretty much any dev studio I know. And before people scream CDPR and/or Bethseda:

TW2= Not a party based RPG. Fixed protagonist. IMO it fits the word Action Adventure much more than DAII ever did. Action Adventure not being an insult, mind you.

Oblivion/Skyrim: Sandbox RPG. Hated Oblivion. Bethseda's "storylines" are meh.

Who else is there? I played several RPGs lately and looked at dozens to take some to Ireland....(None caught my interest).  I also searched Steam. Tried the sequel to Eschalon (A game I enjoyed)....meh sequel IMHO. And no RPG ever gave me more ROLE playing feel, you know, the R in RPG.... (DAO sure as hell did not, were it not for head canon, my Wardens would feel like mute drones with 2 expressions: "Duh!" and "RAH!") Including RPG giants like M&M VI&VII, PST, BG I&II and DAO. But I am a Biodrone so.......wait....forget that I mentioned PST and M&M, they don't have the Bioware logo on them!

[Costin_Razvan]

Between Deus Ex and TW2 nothing was interesting?

Alpha Protocol I heavily recommend and uhm...Dragon Knight Saga.

[Ostagar2011]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

But its main failing was the combat,killing enemies is pretty much a given at some point in most RPG's, some to a greater extent than others and despite all the patches and DLC DAO's combat was just so lacklustre it was as if it was tacked on as an afterthought at the expense of a "great entralling rip roaring story" which when all is said and done was far to generic and cliche'd to even be "great"
Then there's the levels themselves, I'm sure we're all familiar with the complaints level'd at DAO's Fade section as its became known and that sums up pretty much every level in the game:
Oh looks its big great, no constant re-use of textures great followed by the thought of which idiot thought that making a huge level with almost nothing in it of any interest whatsoever that I'll die of boredom because there's nothing to do at all before i finish it.

Origins' combat was the most varied, well thought out and tactical that I have seen in any modern (say post 03) RPG since King's Bounty. I mean the PC version of course. For goodness sake, a huge number of people whined about how impossibly hard it was, which shows that they were falling for lots of traps the devs had laid, or trying to hack n slash their way through. If you understood the mechanics, all fights (excepts the dragons) could be won on nightmare without health pots. Each encounter in the 50 hour game was hand laid out, with its own, almost unique, set of traps and challenges. Compare and contrast to trash mobs like DA2 or most generic enemies in the Witcher (two flavors - heavy and light). Of course all this is lost if you play on 'normal' post patch 1.02 or on consoles (in which case, yes, the combat is repetitive). The undoing in the combat was in the generosity of BioWare. It is easier to have a sense of deja vu in a 50 hour game than a 25 hour one.

As to all of Origins lacking innovation, I agree to a certain extent. But some things are so good I don't want them radically reinvented.  I've watched many romantic comedies and don't complain that 'you've seen one, you've seen them all'. And I certainly don't want writers to start changing the formula into, say, horror, just to pretend to be 'innovating'. They can cerate new content within the parameters and conventions that I know I liked.

[PanosSmirnakos]

A fusion of the best parts between DA:O and DA II would be ideal. I hope that Biowarians are honest about this supposed direction and it's not another PR / marketing trick to gather fans and haters from both sides. I really like the world and lore of Dragon Age and I think that it has endless potential storywise for extremely intresting adventures and heroes. After all, that's the reason I'm still following this franchise despite the huge disappointment DA II was for me.

IMO the artistic direction of the franchise has to improve a lot to make this rich world to really shine and support the talented writers Bioware has. For me the fusion I saw in DA II (combat-wise and design-wise) between anime / cartoon / JRPG influences and medieval fantasy themes is not the best possible combination. Also, I'd like to see more details to enviroments. Most places in the DA world feel empty and lifeless.

Also, I'd like to see an interesting main plot for DA 3. The main plot of DA:O was executed very well but the whole idea was very cliche and the main plot of DA II was more original but it was horribly executed... I hope they'll find a balance here for the next game.

As for the battles... I'd like battles to be more tactical and realistic. They can put all the exaggeration and extra flash they want to mages. After all mages are the ones Thedas fears the most. When I play a warrior or a rogue though, I don't want to move like a character from marvel comics. Also the overuse of the waves mechanic I experienced in DA 2 made the battles repetitive and dull in many cases. The Legacy DLC was a step to the right direction regarding the placement of enemies and variation of battles.

Modifié par PanosSmirnakos, 04 septembre 2011 - 01:43 .

[jbrand2002uk]

Sure there's some wisdom to the " If it ain't broke dont replace it just tweek it" argument but the whole point of being a "designer" in any industry whether it be games.automotive fashion etc is to come up with either a new idea or your own unique twist on an existing idea( the ever touted Unique Selling Point) that becomes the Brand Identity to distinguish the DA franchise from other RPG dragon featuring franchises, not to copy the car manufacturer Porsche's phillosiphy of making every new 911 look exactly like last years 911 and "oh but look its new because we made the headlamps 1mm wider and you have 1cm more legroom in the passenger seat"

It has a stench of laziness and complete lack of imagination and there's nothing i find more annoying then being asked to pay full whack for a new RPG thats exactly like every other RPG thats come out over the last 15 years and then being told that its acceptable because its got better shiner graphics different characters, a different story oh and last but not least a different name.
DAO didnt bring out 1 single new idea or even tried to tweek any existing ones it was nothing more than a blatant copy paste job of pretty much any other RPG on the market everything you see in DAO had been done before and in most cases been done 10 times better 10 years before.

[jbrand2002uk]

after all its not unreasonable when you handing of 60 notes for them to try something that hasnt been done to death a 100 times already or if they're going to borrow another Franchise's template at least:
A) admit that it not a whole new creation.
have the respect towards potential customers to at least tweek the existing template rather than just a blatent like for like copy
DAO played and felt like every other generic RPG with a Generic story Generic skill tree the list goes on and on making it feel like they hadn't even tried where for all DA2's faults it at least had its own unique flavour to it

[Yrkoon]

jbrand2002uk wrote...


It has a stench of laziness and complete lack of imagination and there's nothing i find more annoying then being asked to pay full whack for a new RPG thats exactly like every other RPG thats come out over the last 15 years and then being told that its acceptable because its got better shiner graphics different characters, a different story oh and last but not least a different name.

Again, comments like these portray  the stance of somone who doesn't like RPGs.  Just sayin'.

  Because New characters, new worlds to explore, and new stories ARE   the bread and butter of the Genre itself.  everything else is  secondary.   And its that  secondary  that can be tweeked, changed and morphed.   The former cannot. 


  To revisit the comparison...  Show me a first person shooter  that deviates from the formula of  a 2-armed, but otherwise bodiless toon who runs around a battlefield shooting enemies....*ever*, and I'll show you something fresh and creative... And NOT a first person shooter at all.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 septembre 2011 - 02:03 .

[jbrand2002uk]

well ok a creative FPS that keeps the core mechanics of the Genre but adds something new thats not been done before Bulletstorm: could you explode an enemies butt hole by firing a bullet up it ? yes you could.
Had it been done before ? No

[jbrand2002uk]

DAO was talk talk talk some more walk around abit hack slash cast a spell pick up an item breath in and repeat many times over till you go blind or turn into a couch potato

[Yrkoon]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

well ok a creative FPS that keeps the core mechanics of the Genre but adds something new thats not been done before Bulletstorm: could you explode an enemies butt hole by firing a bullet up it ? yes you could.
Had it been done before ? No

LOL  A new type of gore?  really?

If that's your idea of something  that keeps a genre fresh,  then this has been  one of the most  retarded discussions I've ever engaged in. 

And one of the easiest to counter.  I can assure you that    being able to, say,   Behead an enemy with your sword,  and then  watching the blood gush  out from his neck.... is something  that you never saw in RPGs prior to 2008, and certainly not 20 years ago.  But that's a feature in DA:O,  a game you have repeatedly called stale....

Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 septembre 2011 - 02:14 .

[Persephone]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Between Deus Ex and TW2 nothing was interesting?

Alpha Protocol I heavily recommend and uhm...Dragon Knight Saga.

Played AP, wasn't too fond of it. I did love the Dialogue system though. Will try the Dragon Knight Series, thanks for pointing that one out.

[jbrand2002uk]

Yrkoon wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

well ok a creative FPS that keeps the core mechanics of the Genre but adds something new thats not been done before Bulletstorm: could you explode an enemies butt hole by firing a bullet up it ? yes you could.
Had it been done before ? No

LOL  A new type of gore?  really?

If that's your idea of something  that keeps a genre fresh,  then this has been  one of the most  retarded discussions I've ever engaged in. 

And one of the easiest to counter.  I can assure you that    being able to, say,   Behead an enemy with your sword,  and then  watching the blood gush  out from his neck.... is something  that you never saw in RPGs prior to 2008, and certainly not 20 years ago.  But that's a feature in DA:O,  a game you have repeatedly called stale....

Wrong again Monkey island on the Amiga 500 17 years ago featured decapitations and atrerial spray proving my point of DAO Being a been there done that a 100 times before 

[Yrkoon]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

well ok a creative FPS that keeps the core mechanics of the Genre but adds something new thats not been done before Bulletstorm: could you explode an enemies butt hole by firing a bullet up it ? yes you could.
Had it been done before ? No

LOL  A new type of gore?  really?

If that's your idea of something  that keeps a genre fresh,  then this has been  one of the most  retarded discussions I've ever engaged in. 

And one of the easiest to counter.  I can assure you that    being able to, say,   Behead an enemy with your sword,  and then  watching the blood gush  out from his neck.... is something  that you never saw in RPGs prior to 2008, and certainly not 20 years ago.  But that's a feature in DA:O,  a game you have repeatedly called stale....

Wrong again Monkey island on the Amiga 500 17 years ago featured decapitations and atrerial spray proving my point of DAO Being a been there done that a 100 times before 

Monkey Island isn't an RPG

[dsl08002]

What I come to think about is that the enviroment should hae an impact on the character for example: if you are going to a cold area then you would probably wear a hide or a cape and this shows on the character, otherwise you take cold damage and suffer penalty to stamina same goes to warm area.

[DariusKalera]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

DAO was talk talk talk some more walk around abit hack slash cast a spell pick up an item breath in and repeat many times over till you go blind or turn into a couch potato

That's because in DAO, the combat existed to move the story along.  Combat was not the main focus of the game.

In DA2, its the opposite.  The story exists to move the combat along.

[jbrand2002uk]

it is an RPG says so right here http://www.worldofmi...php?f=27&t=7607
so there you go pink monkeybottom flapping in the wind to you my friend

[jbrand2002uk]

DariusKalera wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

DAO was talk talk talk some more walk around abit hack slash cast a spell pick up an item breath in and repeat many times over till you go blind or turn into a couch potato

That's because in DAO, the combat existed to move the story along.  Combat was not the main focus of the game.

In DA2, its the opposite.  The story exists to move the combat along.

An accurate assesment i would say and all the talk talk talk some more wouldnt have been anywhere near as dreary if the brief pieces of combat in between wernt so utterly hopless it reminded me of watching and old man trying to dance at a hardcore rave it just looked daft and failed miserably 

[Yrkoon]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

it is an RPG says so right here http://www.worldofmi...php?f=27&t=7607
so there you go pink monkeybottom flapping in the wind to you my friend

LOL

Wait.... did you just link us to a message board where a poster titles his thread "Monkey Island RPG?"

hahaha.  No.  Monkey Island isn't an RPG.

[willholt]

Fandango9641 wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

An accurate assesment i would say and all the talk talk talk some more wouldnt have been anywhere near as dreary if the brief pieces of combat in between wernt so utterly hopless it reminded me of watching and old man trying to dance at a hardcore rave it just looked daft and failed miserably 

Ladies and gents, may I present to you Biowares new demographic!

Nevermind

Modifié par willholt, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:29 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Nevermind.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:34 .

[jbrand2002uk]

how someone who's been playing RPG's since before Bioware even existed and has played all their games and thoroughly enjoyed them with the exception of DAO as well as many other company's RPG's for the last 20 yrs plus can be described as the new demographic i dont know but i'll leave it to you to mull it over for a millenium before coming up with a little explaino

[Cyberstrike nTo]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

it is an RPG says so right here http://www.worldofmi...php?f=27&t=7607
so there you go pink monkeybottom flapping in the wind to you my friend

You do realize that is a message board RPG based on the video game and has nothing to do with the video game? 

I know a couple of Transformers fansites that have the same thing here are a couple: Here is one and here is another one.