322 réponses à ce sujet

[Texhnolyze101]

It won't be for me.

[devSin]

simfamSP wrote...

When trying something new. You never know how people are going to react. They knew what they were doing, but they never knew how we were going to react!

I'm betting that they could have guessed a lot of the reactions. Maybe not the vitriol, and maybe not so clearly if they really ran out of time (since it will take a while to shift from thinking about the goal you were aiming for and what you actually delivered), but they've done big jumps before, both when shifting to console, and then in putting out games with more action and shooter gameplay.

I've always maintained that Origins is simply a very old game. It released in 2009, but it had been stewing for a long time, principally as a PC game. But there's no room left in the studio for a game like that. Dragon Age II is not so much different because they wanted to take a huge risk; it's different because they needed to bring it forward so that it actually has a place among the sorts of games they've chosen to make.

They're not taking in all this feedback and dramatically changing the game they're going to put out next time. They can use the feedback to make some changes and revise some things, but DA2 is nearer the type of game that BioWare makes in 2011, and DA3 is going to be further along that same path (even were they to start over as you present in the title post, they'd still be traveling to the same destination as they were when making DA2).

[Texhnolyze101]

Atakuma wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

I shutter to think of how they're EVER going to find an even remote semblance of  community agreement on an issue  as major as, say... Combat.  My guess is they won't.  They're more likely to turn everyone off.

This is not good.  They need to define their visions and stick to them.  

Quote of the day. Seriously. 100% agreed. You can't make a game through online consensus, not one like Dragon Age. BioWare needs to define their vision and stick to it. Sorry I stole your quote but there's literally no better way to say it.

I think Bioware's vision is clearly defined. I think people are (as usual) reading way too much into simple PR speak.
I don't believe for a second that Bioware is actually trying a best of both worlds approach, they are going to do a best of DA2 approach and that just happens to mean a few DAO elements make a return.

^ After reading that im not sure i care about DA3 now

[Texhnolyze101]

simfamSP wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

It won't be for me.

Im not interested in the best of both worlds there's only 1 world i want and its not DA2.

[Rockpopple]

Personally I still have hope in Dragon Age 3. For one, I actually liked Dragon Age 2. =) For two, being on these forums have the benefit of listening to the developers and how they think and feel, and from everything I've been hearing, it's been positive. For three, it's BioWare, and most BioWare games I've played have not disappointed.

Really, I think most of the hate from Dragon Age 2 came from it being so radically different from Dragon Age: Origins. It was a shock for a lot of people. But it's over. It's done. Origins is Origins and it's not coming back. And I understand those people not wanting it to be called "Dragon Age" anymore... but it is Dragon Age. It takes place in the Dragon Age. It's the content and story that marks it as "Dragon Age", not how it plays, necessarily.

In any case, I think this team can make a really action-filled deep RPG. There's a lot they can do. I'm playing Deus Ex right now and loving it. It's not your traditional RPG - and let's face it, that genre is dying, but it can still be something excellent.

[Texhnolyze101]

Rockpopple wrote...

Personally I still have hope in Dragon Age 3. For one, I actually liked Dragon Age 2. =) For two, being on these forums have the benefit of listening to the developers and how they think and feel, and from everything I've been hearing, it's been positive. For three, it's BioWare, and most BioWare games I've played have not disappointed.

Really, I think most of the hate from Dragon Age 2 came from it being so radically different from Dragon Age: Origins. It was a shock for a lot of people. But it's over. It's done. Origins is Origins and it's not coming back. And I understand those people not wanting it to be called "Dragon Age" anymore... but it is Dragon Age. It takes place in the Dragon Age. It's the content and story that marks it as "Dragon Age", not how it plays, necessarily.

In any case, I think this team can make a really action-filled deep RPG. There's a lot they can do. I'm playing Deus Ex right now and loving it. It's not your traditional RPG - and let's face it, that genre is dying, but it can still be something excellent.

Its only dying because people are abandoning it.

[MorrigansLove]

Rockpopple wrote...

Personally I still have hope in Dragon Age 3. For one, I actually liked Dragon Age 2. =) For two, being on these forums have the benefit of listening to the developers and how they think and feel, and from everything I've been hearing, it's been positive. For three, it's BioWare, and most BioWare games I've played have not disappointed.

Really, I think most of the hate from Dragon Age 2 came from it being so radically different from Dragon Age: Origins. It was a shock for a lot of people. But it's over. It's done. Origins is Origins and it's not coming back. And I understand those people not wanting it to be called "Dragon Age" anymore... but it is Dragon Age. It takes place in the Dragon Age. It's the content and story that marks it as "Dragon Age", not how it plays, necessarily.

In any case, I think this team can make a really action-filled deep RPG. There's a lot they can do. I'm playing Deus Ex right now and loving it. It's not your traditional RPG - and let's face it, that genre is dying, but it can still be something excellent.

Why did you like Dragon Age 2?

[DarkDragon777]

Hmm, I'm sensing about 5% Origins and 95% DA2 here.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Take note the only Bioware games i've played in Kotor 1 and 2 and DAO/DA2. That being said I've not been dissapointed by any of these 4 games so that in my mind means that Bioware will most likely not dissapoint me with DA3.

[FieryDove]

Reno_Tarshil wrote...

Take note the only Bioware games i've played in Kotor 1 and 2 and DAO/DA2. That being said I've not been dissapointed by any of these 4 games so that in my mind means that Bioware will most likely not dissapoint me with DA3.

Kotor 2 was Obsidian not Bioware.

You might like Jade Empire and Mass Effect games. Maybe even the BG games? I do not recommend Sonic. (sorry sonic fans)

[ScotGaymer]

Rockpopple wrote...

Personally I still have hope in Dragon Age 3. For one, I actually liked Dragon Age 2. =) For two, being on these forums have the benefit of listening to the developers and how they think and feel, and from everything I've been hearing, it's been positive. For three, it's BioWare, and most BioWare games I've played have not disappointed.

Really, I think most of the hate from Dragon Age 2 came from it being so radically different from Dragon Age: Origins. It was a shock for a lot of people. But it's over. It's done. Origins is Origins and it's not coming back. And I understand those people not wanting it to be called "Dragon Age" anymore... but it is Dragon Age. It takes place in the Dragon Age. It's the content and story that marks it as "Dragon Age", not how it plays, necessarily.

In any case, I think this team can make a really action-filled deep RPG. There's a lot they can do. I'm playing Deus Ex right now and loving it. It's not your traditional RPG - and let's face it, that genre is dying, but it can still be something excellent.

I agree.

I did and do like Dragon Age 2. I still play it. With a bit more time of the Dev Cycle they could have turned out their usual quality of AAA RPG game.

The problem with Dragon Age 2 is twofold as far as I am concerned. The Development Cycle is FAR too short with the result that the game wasnt finished and wasnt Quality Assured properly; this was pointed out MONTHS prior to release but BW assured us that they had been developing it from before DAO came out but that was obviously a whole load of crap.
And the Marketing/PR for Dragon Age 2 (and to a lesser extent Mass Effect 2) positively sucked; their marketing entirely misunderstood DA's existing fanbase, and misunderstood the fanbase they were wanting to court and turn into RPG fans (the CoD crowd was the crowd they were after) which resulted in a whole load of misinformation coming out of Bioware prior to DA2's release.

These two things caused the backlash against Dragon Age and caused DA's sales to collapse.

If they had taken longer, or if they had a competent marketing department (Gem quotes and Blurbs such as "This is the New ****!" and "Wow! Awesome Button!" jump to mind as examples of BW's Marketing Dept's incompetence) I can guarantee that DA2 wouldnt have flopped as badly as it did.
There still woulda been haterz on here screaming about DA2 not being EXACTLY the same as Origins of course but they woulda been vastly fewer in number and would have long since shut the heck up.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 03 septembre 2011 - 12:32 .

[FieryDove]

Rockpopple wrote...

Really, I think most of the hate from Dragon Age 2 came from it being so radically different from Dragon Age: Origins. It was a shock for a lot of people.

I have no doubt that was some of it. But even if you take the game and do not compare it to anything one could see (I hope) it needed another year at least to develop. The entire game reeked rush/cut/hurry. And I like DA2 just some things really seem bad/poorly executed to me.

Rockpopple wrote...

It's not your traditional RPG - and let's face it, that genre is dying, but it can still be something excellent.

People have been saying it is dying about that and many other things for over 10 years now. I disagree.

Modifié par FieryDove, 03 septembre 2011 - 01:12 .

[Yrkoon]

FieryDove wrote...


People have been saying it is dying about that and many other things for over 10 years now.

 Over 15 years in fact.

BG1, which came out in 1998, was hailed as the game that ressurected  the RPG genre, which means   the rpg genre  was (apparently)  already dead before 1998

A really old article, for our amusement: http://www.sorcerers...cles/bg_res.php

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 septembre 2011 - 02:03 .

[Reno_Tarshil]

FieryDove wrote...

Reno_Tarshil wrote...

Take note the only Bioware games i've played in Kotor 1 and 2 and DAO/DA2. That being said I've not been dissapointed by any of these 4 games so that in my mind means that Bioware will most likely not dissapoint me with DA3.

Kotor 2 was Obsidian not Bioware.

You might like Jade Empire and Mass Effect games. Maybe even the BG games? I do not recommend Sonic. (sorry sonic fans)

That;s funny that Kotor 2 was first of the games I mentioned that I played. ANd even if Bioware didn't make it, it was still the same as the original Kotor, so you can see how easy it was for me to mistake it as a Bioware game right? Anywho my point still remains, I'm most likely to enjoy DA3.

[ScotGaymer]

The reason for the similarity in K2 and K1 is twofold.

It is a sequel of the first which is a BW game using the same engine so of course it is going to "feel" the same.
And some of the staff at BW and some of the staff at Obsidian came from Black Isle Studios the development house behind the amazing Fallout series.

It explains their close relationship.

[FedericoV]

Yrkoon wrote...

BG1, which came out in 1998, was hailed as the game that ressurected  the RPG genre, which means   the rpg genre  was (apparently)  already dead before 1998

Well, the game that was hailed to "resurrect" or better "save" the RPG genre was Diablo II. Infact, BG II could be considered a game in the middle of the way between Diablo II and the classic golden box/black box CRPGs of the end of the '80. BG I was hailed because it relaunches the popularity of D&D based CRPGs after years of obscurity and very poor game that followed the end of relationship between SSI and TSR. But Diablo II opened the door for the return of CRPGs.

[GodWood]

I'm not really a fan of this 'best of both worlds' idea they seem to have.

All of the changes DA2 had I hated and any of the features that I actually liked in DA2 were things that were already in DA:O.

Modifié par GodWood, 03 septembre 2011 - 12:41 .

[alex90c]

Rockpopple wrote...

Personally I still have hope in Dragon Age 3. For one, I actually liked Dragon Age 2. =) For two, being on these forums have the benefit of listening to the developers and how they think and feel, and from everything I've been hearing, it's been positive. For three, it's BioWare, and most BioWare games I've played have not disappointed.

Really, I think most of the hate from Dragon Age 2 came from it being so radically different from Dragon Age: Origins. It was a shock for a lot of people. But it's over. It's done. Origins is Origins and it's not coming back. And I understand those people not wanting it to be called "Dragon Age" anymore... but it is Dragon Age. It takes place in the Dragon Age. It's the content and story that marks it as "Dragon Age", not how it plays, necessarily.

In any case, I think this team can make a really action-filled deep RPG. There's a lot they can do. I'm playing Deus Ex right now and loving it. It's not your traditional RPG - and let's face it, that genre is dying, but it can still be something excellent.

[Yuqi]

Rockpopple wrote...

In any case, I think this team can make a really action-filled deep RPG. There's a lot they can do. I'm playing Deus Ex right now and loving it. It's not your traditional RPG - and let's face it, that genre is dying, but it can still be something excellent.

Well then, if deep story and action filled, is the new definition of rpg. Then DW  now falls into that catagory, too  

[naledgeborn]

I interpreted their Best of Both Worlds approach as taking Origins' attention to detail and injecting that into DA2. That really couldn't hurt.