249 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
looks at your join date

yup that explains a lot 11987.

Game are not my life, they are my hobby of choice. Thanks to people like you a game Serie that was supposed to be heavily influenced by choices has not lived up to its potential. Seriously...go play halo....awesome game, little to no research required.

Also, it is not a matter of explaning (even tho there were tons ofthreads way back then about "who is ashley and why shoild I care" or similar) it's a matter of dealing with the very core of the serie being diminished to make it less daunting to the newcomers

in the immortal words of Silverman "who cares about this or this other character, who cares about the relationships? this is war....".....no thanks.

My join date says what, exactly?

Halo has arguably an even more extensive backstory and story than Mass Effect, especially when you look at its expanded universe. So if I can just play Halo for its game play, why not Mass Effect 3?

And since you haven't seen how choices make an impact in ME3, you're judging way too early on whether or not Mass Effect has lived up to its potential. If you're so disappointed with Mass Effect, why even get ME3? Just go read about it, or watch a play though on Youtube

thank you for proving my point

Halo has no decision making and no branching story or different possible outcomes. The experience and dialogues and paths of a halo 3 player are the same wether or not he played the first two

Secondly I can see how choices impacted ME2 transferring from ME1 and they did not live to the promises made by the devs. With that in Mind Given I spent some 400 hours (like many others here) on each ME1 and 2 I can safely say I am not disappointed by it but I know it could have been more IF the devs did you cater so much to the newcomers.

[Gabey5]

its called marketing

[111987]

crimzontearz wrote...

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
looks at your join date

yup that explains a lot 11987.

Game are not my life, they are my hobby of choice. Thanks to people like you a game Serie that was supposed to be heavily influenced by choices has not lived up to its potential. Seriously...go play halo....awesome game, little to no research required.

Also, it is not a matter of explaning (even tho there were tons ofthreads way back then about "who is ashley and why shoild I care" or similar) it's a matter of dealing with the very core of the serie being diminished to make it less daunting to the newcomers

in the immortal words of Silverman "who cares about this or this other character, who cares about the relationships? this is war....".....no thanks.

My join date says what, exactly?

Halo has arguably an even more extensive backstory and story than Mass Effect, especially when you look at its expanded universe. So if I can just play Halo for its game play, why not Mass Effect 3?

And since you haven't seen how choices make an impact in ME3, you're judging way too early on whether or not Mass Effect has lived up to its potential. If you're so disappointed with Mass Effect, why even get ME3? Just go read about it, or watch a play though on Youtube

thank you for proving my point

Halo has no decision making and no branching story or different possible outcomes. The experience and dialogues and paths of a halo 3 player are the same wether or not he played the first two

Secondly I can see how choices impacted ME2 transferring from ME1 and they did not live to the promises made by the devs. With that in Mind Given I spent some 400 hours (like many others here) on each ME1 and 2 I can safely say I am not disappointed by it but I know it could have been more IF the devs did you cater so much to the newcomers.

So you're saying if you just jump into Halo 3 without playing the other games, you understand what's going on? Yeah...no. You can still enjoy the great game play...just like you can in Mass Effect 3 :happy:

ME2 is the second game of a trilogy, so it would be impossible to have your choices make drastic impacts to ME2, and still follow the path of the main story. In ME3, this isn't a concern because it's the last in the series.

[ArkkAngel007]

I agree that Mass Effect 3 really is an excellant entry point for new fans.  But why?  How come Mass Effect, only on Xbox 360 and PC, with its stiff combat, messy inventory, and overpowered abilities is not the gateway drug into the universe?  Glad you asked, and here are your answers:

• Mass Effect 3 is available on Xbox 360, PS3, and PC.  Yes, ME2 was as well, but ME3 has the edge that will be explained next.  Also, it taps into the Kinect market, though granted that market is a bit small in comparison and I doubt it will be used as much as Bioware/Microsoft hopes

• Mass Effect 3 has a rather contained story, or at least so we are told.  ME2 relied too much on the first game and setting up for the third to really be a jump-off point.  In this, ME1 and ME3 share the same advantage.  While the first focused just on the investigation that gradually grew to a galactic crisis, ME3 will focus just on stopping the Reapers at last. Best comparison would be The Empire Strikes back, which while amazing, was not the most friendly to those new to Star Wars.

• ME3 is a culmination of Bioware's work thus far.  Combat, leveling, and most likely everything else in the series has been refined.  60 levels, a myriad of powers, exciting and energetic combat, diverse classes, an epic story...the list can go on.  The best of both of the current games seem to have been forged into ME3, and we still have yet to see most of the game.  

• Curiosity.  If Bioware can make it clear that one can go back and make choices in the past games that affect the outcome/progression of the last game, then fans will go back and play those games.  Also, Mass Effect has such a rich universe that fans will want to go back to experience more of it.  The potential is great, the same potential that has made the Star Wars Expanded Universe so successful.

I'm going to stop there as I have other things to get to, but there you have this long-time fan's opinion.  And I think everyone needs to take a step back and remember what made them interested in Mass Effect, or any other epic series, in the first place.  To me, it was the story and characters of Mass Effect; it was the universe these games revolved around.  What was it for you and what would you want it to be for those who haven't broken into it yet?

[Nashiktal]

To be fair, you really don't need to know the story of Halo 3 to enjoy it.

[111987]

Nashiktal wrote...

To be fair, you really don't need to know the story of Halo 3 to enjoy it.

You can make the exact same argument for Mass Effect 3.

[Whatever42]

111987 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

To be fair, you really don't need to know the story of Halo 3 to enjoy it.

You can make the exact same argument for Mass Effect 3.

Sure, a lot of people said the same of ME2. Of course, when many went back and played ME1, they appreciated the game far more. It made the experience that much more personal. But you didn't NEED to play ME1 to enjoy ME2, absolutely.

[crimzontearz]

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
looks at your join date

yup that explains a lot 11987.

Game are not my life, they are my hobby of choice. Thanks to people like you a game Serie that was supposed to be heavily influenced by choices has not lived up to its potential. Seriously...go play halo....awesome game, little to no research required.

Also, it is not a matter of explaning (even tho there were tons ofthreads way back then about "who is ashley and why shoild I care" or similar) it's a matter of dealing with the very core of the serie being diminished to make it less daunting to the newcomers

in the immortal words of Silverman "who cares about this or this other character, who cares about the relationships? this is war....".....no thanks.

My join date says what, exactly?

Halo has arguably an even more extensive backstory and story than Mass Effect, especially when you look at its expanded universe. So if I can just play Halo for its game play, why not Mass Effect 3?

And since you haven't seen how choices make an impact in ME3, you're judging way too early on whether or not Mass Effect has lived up to its potential. If you're so disappointed with Mass Effect, why even get ME3? Just go read about it, or watch a play though on Youtube

thank you for proving my point

Halo has no decision making and no branching story or different possible outcomes. The experience and dialogues and paths of a halo 3 player are the same wether or not he played the first two

Secondly I can see how choices impacted ME2 transferring from ME1 and they did not live to the promises made by the devs. With that in Mind Given I spent some 400 hours (like many others here) on each ME1 and 2 I can safely say I am not disappointed by it but I know it could have been more IF the devs did you cater so much to the newcomers.

So you're saying if you just jump into Halo 3 without playing the other games, you understand what's going on? Yeah...no. You can still enjoy the great game play...just like you can in Mass Effect 3

ME2 is the second game of a trilogy, so it would be impossible to have your choices make drastic impacts to ME2, and still follow the path of the main story. In ME3, this isn't a concern because it's the last in the series.

Yeah on an equally complex story the one that brances is always the harder one to digest or dea with AND Halo's story does not chance dependingon your choices because you have none nor are such choices part of the gameplay.

ME2 could have been much more drastic. Example? Tuchanka being completely hostile if youkilled wrex and getting better if you gave them the genophage data...Just putting it out there, there are million more examples but whatever

[Whatever42]

crimzontearz wrote...
Yeah on an equally complex story the one that brances is always the harder one to digest or dea with AND Halo's story does not chance dependingon your choices because you have none nor are such choices part of the gameplay.

ME2 could have been much more drastic. Example? Tuchanka being completely hostile if youkilled wrex and getting better if you gave them the genophage data...Just putting it out there, there are million more examples but whatever

Would that degree of branching half-way through the game have been realistic, though? I mean, yes, it would have been awesome but can we honestly expect that?

That said, that's one of the reasons I'm so against a lot of overhauls to the ME3 mechanics. I want them to spend more time on story than overhauling gameplay AGAIN. 

[Xeranx]

Chewin3 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
And possibly then go out and buy ME3.

PROFIT.

In the long run yes, but companies tend to like having their recent product selling more when released.

Which is a detriment to their bottom line if you think about it.

You end up pushing out more product to keep yourself afloat rather than try your best to ride out the wave so to speak.  Remember how long movies used to be shown in theaters?  That doesn't happen anymore.  You could have a movie out and it'll still be in theaters six months later.  Now, do movies last three months?  Then they're packed as dvds on store shelves within two.  That's not how growth works and isn't supposed to be how growth works.

A better analogy is probably growing crops.  Use all the chemicals you want to use and grow the crops you desire but there are drawbacks.  They're not as nutritionally dense as those grown without chemicals.  They tend to spoil faster, and don't fill people up like the aformentioned others without chemicals.  That results in more food being consumed which makes manufacturers think they're doing the right thing, and more problems down the line for everyone.  If you look at our current culture many things are disposable.  Television, music, movies, relationships...nothing gets care and nothing gets the time to mature.  We always need that stimulant that keeps us coming back for more because we don't want to waste time letting things develop.  For many people DA2 is a clear example of that.  Companies that follow that business plan set themselves up for failure more than they do success.  

[The Spamming Troll]

111987 wrote...

So you're saying if you just jump into Halo 3 without playing the other games, you understand what's going on? Yeah...no. You can still enjoy the great game play...just like you can in Mass Effect 3 :happy:

ME2 is the second game of a trilogy, so it would be impossible to have your choices make drastic impacts to ME2, and still follow the path of the main story. In ME3, this isn't a concern because it's the last in the series.

your assuming ME3 isnt going to show decisions ONLY THROUGH emails or 4 minutes of dialogue like ME2. what else do we have to go on, then playing ME1--->ME2? people put way too much faith in ME3, that totally counters everything weve seen and done in ME2.

the devs said ME3 will have more replayability, which im assuming means more decisions that show consequences. why elese would i replay if its going to be getting one email or the other? so hopefully ME3 does actually do as advertised with is previouse choices and consequences. becasue ME2 surely didnt.

[Xeranx]

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I work 40 hours a week and have a wife and stepchildren. Sure, not everyone can spare the time to watch a whole playthrough but there are also forums and wikis. The material is there, people need to stop being lazy and make an effort otherwise Series like ME will never deliver on the original promises

Once again, not everyone has time time or inclination to view all the necesarry material to fully understand the game. Maybe they'd rather spend most of their time doing something else? Does that make them lazy and stupid? Apparently it does to you...and that's just sad.

Whatever though, believe what you want about how people are stupid for not dedicating their lives to gaming and how much smarter you are than those people...

Not saying that gaming is more important, but apply that to raising children which is exactly what's happening now.  "I have more important things to do that play dolls with you Molly."

If it's important to you then you should be interested in getting any information you can because you'll be paying for it twice over if you hate it.  In regards to games you could be paying for it three times as a result: purchasing, being disappointed with said game, taking it to a local gamestore for less than you paid for it because you can't return it to the store you bought it from or the company that owns the IP for a full refund.

If you don't have the time to connect with people you don't make the effort to do so.  if you don't have time to invest in a car then you don't buy the one that requires the most care.  If you don't have time to invest in the background of a game you'll pay $60 for then you don't buy the game.

Didn't think I'd be doing so much social commentary.

[Notlikeyoucare]

marshalleck wrote...

How? Easy.

Remember how ME2 had very little to do with anything in ME1? Well, get ready for that again in ME3. The game's plot and characters will be written that it is a standalone game, with a sprinkling of cameos here and there for the importers, as well as tons of email.

/thread

[111987]

Xeranx wrote...

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I work 40 hours a week and have a wife and stepchildren. Sure, not everyone can spare the time to watch a whole playthrough but there are also forums and wikis. The material is there, people need to stop being lazy and make an effort otherwise Series like ME will never deliver on the original promises

Once again, not everyone has time time or inclination to view all the necesarry material to fully understand the game. Maybe they'd rather spend most of their time doing something else? Does that make them lazy and stupid? Apparently it does to you...and that's just sad.

Whatever though, believe what you want about how people are stupid for not dedicating their lives to gaming and how much smarter you are than those people...

Not saying that gaming is more important, but apply that to raising children which is exactly what's happening now.  "I have more important things to do that play dolls with you Molly."

If it's important to you then you should be interested in getting any information you can because you'll be paying for it twice over if you hate it.  In regards to games you could be paying for it three times as a result: purchasing, being disappointed with said game, taking it to a local gamestore for less than you paid for it because you can't return it to the store you bought it from or the company that owns the IP for a full refund.

If you don't have the time to connect with people you don't make the effort to do so.  if you don't have time to invest in a car then you don't buy the one that requires the most care.  If you don't have time to invest in the background of a game you'll pay $60 for then you don't buy the game.

Didn't think I'd be doing so much social commentary.

Your example is not the same...some people are too busy playing with their kids to play video games. That's what I said.

Once again, you do not have to invest in the background of a game to enjoy it; that's just silly. I started with Mass Effect 2, and enjoyed it immensley. This was before I did much research or played Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 3 looks like it has game play on par with almost any other third person shooter out there; for a lot of people, that's all they want, great combat. You don't have to invest as much time as us forumites to enjoy a game; that's just how we do it, but we are not the majority by FAR.

[Computer_God91]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Welcome to BioWare forums where a majority of us live in basements, proud of ourselves when we get to insult and belittle someone over the internet to boost our self-esteem.

Apparently.

Il Divo wrote...

That's great, except I don't care. Hate Mass Effect 2. That's your right as a human-being, but these attempts at bringing intelligence into the equation are weak. What about Mass Effect was so damn complicated that your average gamer wouldn't understand?

I didn't say it was complex. All I'm saying is ME2 is a dumbed down version of ME1 except different story. When I say dumbed down it should be pretty obvious what I mean.

• Leveling system went from plenty of skills to like 5 that only level up 4 times
• Inventory and squad armor was dropped completely in favor of cat suits and breathers
• about zero exploration
• weak story with enemies that weren't even around the whole game
• our decisions that mattered got reduced to emails

I could keep going but all you ME2 lovers will just say the same crap that you always say and go back to rubbing off to the best game that ever existed. 

[atheelogos]

Its just marketing OP calm down.

[Xeranx]

111987 wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I work 40 hours a week and have a wife and stepchildren. Sure, not everyone can spare the time to watch a whole playthrough but there are also forums and wikis. The material is there, people need to stop being lazy and make an effort otherwise Series like ME will never deliver on the original promises

Once again, not everyone has time time or inclination to view all the necesarry material to fully understand the game. Maybe they'd rather spend most of their time doing something else? Does that make them lazy and stupid? Apparently it does to you...and that's just sad.

Whatever though, believe what you want about how people are stupid for not dedicating their lives to gaming and how much smarter you are than those people...

Not saying that gaming is more important, but apply that to raising children which is exactly what's happening now.  "I have more important things to do that play dolls with you Molly."

If it's important to you then you should be interested in getting any information you can because you'll be paying for it twice over if you hate it.  In regards to games you could be paying for it three times as a result: purchasing, being disappointed with said game, taking it to a local gamestore for less than you paid for it because you can't return it to the store you bought it from or the company that owns the IP for a full refund.

If you don't have the time to connect with people you don't make the effort to do so.  if you don't have time to invest in a car then you don't buy the one that requires the most care.  If you don't have time to invest in the background of a game you'll pay $60 for then you don't buy the game.

Didn't think I'd be doing so much social commentary.

Your example is not the same...some people are too busy playing with their kids to play video games. That's what I said.

Once again, you do not have to invest in the background of a game to enjoy it; that's just silly. I started with Mass Effect 2, and enjoyed it immensley. This was before I did much research or played Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 3 looks like it has game play on par with almost any other third person shooter out there; for a lot of people, that's all they want, great combat. You don't have to invest as much time as us forumites to enjoy a game; that's just how we do it, but we are not the majority by FAR.

That's fine if people are too busy playing with their kids, but the argument you're illustrating is colored by the fact that you are here.  I've come across people on forums who embody that same stance.  They'll post on the message boards, but complain that they don't have time to look into something they're willing to buy.  That doesn't make sense at all.  The analogies I used earlier illustrate my stance on the matter very well I think.  

The long and short of my point is that if you care to make an investment it is to your benefit to do the research.  

There are plenty of people who don't have time to deal with changing insurance carriers, but they do it.  There are people who don't have the time to deal with buying a new phone, but they do it.  Those who come on message boards for any entertainment that they enjoy or are looking to enjoy have no foundation to stand on if they make a poor purchase.  It's like screaming about there being nudity in a game that is labeled to have nudity in it.  Or better yet, complaining about an album that has explicit lyrics when the label on the front of the album says "explicit lyrics".  

Gaming isn't on the same level as purchasing a new phone, getting a different insurance carrier, or taking care of your child, but if you work to earn your money then you should be interested in knowing that your money is well spent.  You do that for daycare, you do it for your insurance, you do it for your phone, and you do it for your car.  

I and others on message boards don't deserve to hear snark about a negative experience because a game wasn't to your liking.  If you don't have time to spend doing the research on the things you're interested in buying then you have no grounds to complain about your experience with said purchase if it's negative.  You made the decision to buy and you should live with the consequences.  Being unable to do that shows you're not ready to be an adult.

Note: 'You' is used in the general sense.  I don't know if my post(s) relates to you or not.  I'm just giving my feelings on the scenario(s) presented.

[mauro2222]

Computer_God91 wrote...

I didn't say it was complex. All I'm saying is ME2 is a dumbed down version of ME1 except different story. When I say dumbed down it should be pretty obvious what I mean.

• Leveling system went from plenty of skills to like 5 that only level up 4 times
• Inventory and squad armor was dropped completely in favor of cat suits and breathers
• about zero exploration
• weak story with enemies that weren't even around the whole game
• our decisions that mattered got reduced to emails

I could keep going but all you ME2 lovers will just say the same crap that you always say and go back to rubbing off to the best game that ever existed. 

Ouch!

[*]
It's marketing, people. They don't care about you or I, is capitalism, they care about the size of their pockets. If in order to make more money, they need to destroy all what the other videogame stands for, they do it.

Modifié par mauro2222, 05 septembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[shep82]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

111987 wrote...

So you're saying if you just jump into Halo 3 without playing the other games, you understand what's going on? Yeah...no. You can still enjoy the great game play...just like you can in Mass Effect 3 :happy:

ME2 is the second game of a trilogy, so it would be impossible to have your choices make drastic impacts to ME2, and still follow the path of the main story. In ME3, this isn't a concern because it's the last in the series.

your assuming ME3 isnt going to show decisions ONLY THROUGH emails or 4 minutes of dialogue like ME2. what else do we have to go on, then playing ME1--->ME2? people put way too much faith in ME3, that totally counters everything weve seen and done in ME2.

the devs said ME3 will have more replayability, which im assuming means more decisions that show consequences. why elese would i replay if its going to be getting one email or the other? so hopefully ME3 does actually do as advertised with is previouse choices and consequences. becasue ME2 surely didnt.

I disagree. ME 2 delt with the choices and consequences just fine. ME 3 will do it fine as well.

[shep82]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

Welcome to BioWare forums where a majority of us live in basements, proud of ourselves when we get to insult and belittle someone over the internet to boost our self-esteem.

Apparently.

Il Divo wrote...

That's great, except I don't care. Hate Mass Effect 2. That's your right as a human-being, but these attempts at bringing intelligence into the equation are weak. What about Mass Effect was so damn complicated that your average gamer wouldn't understand?

I didn't say it was complex. All I'm saying is ME2 is a dumbed down version of ME1 except different story. When I say dumbed down it should be pretty obvious what I mean.

• Leveling system went from plenty of skills to like 5 that only level up 4 times
• Inventory and squad armor was dropped completely in favor of cat suits and breathers
• about zero exploration
• weak story with enemies that weren't even around the whole game
• our decisions that mattered got reduced to emails

I could keep going but all you ME2 lovers will just say the same crap that you always say and go back to rubbing off to the best game that ever existed. 

I don't agree with this at all. The game wasn't dumbed down they changed things that didn't work from the first game. The skills were way to many in the first game the armor and inventory sucked the new is better, the story was great IMO and the decisions mattered and were handled fine IMO.

[Gatt9]

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

111987 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
looks at your join date

yup that explains a lot 11987.

Game are not my life, they are my hobby of choice. Thanks to people like you a game Serie that was supposed to be heavily influenced by choices has not lived up to its potential. Seriously...go play halo....awesome game, little to no research required.

Also, it is not a matter of explaning (even tho there were tons ofthreads way back then about "who is ashley and why shoild I care" or similar) it's a matter of dealing with the very core of the serie being diminished to make it less daunting to the newcomers

in the immortal words of Silverman "who cares about this or this other character, who cares about the relationships? this is war....".....no thanks.

My join date says what, exactly?

Halo has arguably an even more extensive backstory and story than Mass Effect, especially when you look at its expanded universe. So if I can just play Halo for its game play, why not Mass Effect 3?

And since you haven't seen how choices make an impact in ME3, you're judging way too early on whether or not Mass Effect has lived up to its potential. If you're so disappointed with Mass Effect, why even get ME3? Just go read about it, or watch a play though on Youtube

thank you for proving my point

Halo has no decision making and no branching story or different possible outcomes. The experience and dialogues and paths of a halo 3 player are the same wether or not he played the first two

Secondly I can see how choices impacted ME2 transferring from ME1 and they did not live to the promises made by the devs. With that in Mind Given I spent some 400 hours (like many others here) on each ME1 and 2 I can safely say I am not disappointed by it but I know it could have been more IF the devs did you cater so much to the newcomers.

So you're saying if you just jump into Halo 3 without playing the other games, you understand what's going on? Yeah...no. You can still enjoy the great game play...just like you can in Mass Effect 3 :happy:

ME2 is the second game of a trilogy, so it would be impossible to have your choices make drastic impacts to ME2, and still follow the path of the main story. In ME3, this isn't a concern because it's the last in the series.

Um...What?  Not trying to flame,  but that's gotta be the most convulted excuse I've ever seen to hand-wave something's shortcomings.

It's ok because it's the second entry in a trilogy and the main story can't be followed if anything does?  So nothing that occurred in Fellowship of the Ring can effect The Two Towers?  Nothing in A New Hope can effect Empire Strike Back?  Nothing in the Sorcerers Stone can effect Chamber of Secrets (Or anything in the next 4 books either)?

This is what Bioware means by "Things carry over",  not that your choices actually matter,  but that you get some emails.  Because EA's afraid they might lose a sale because someone might think he needs to play the preceeding games first,  and EA doesn't do anything that might not sell the most units humanly possible.

As far as Halo goes,  you don't need a word of the story,  if it moves,  shoot it.  Which ironically described ME2's approach to gameplay,  every problem has a solution...combat,  except for "I want a fish!".

[Someone With Mass]

Gatt9 wrote...

As far as Halo goes,  you don't need a word of the story,  if it moves,  shoot it.  Which ironically described ME2's approach to gameplay,  every problem has a solution...combat,  except for "I want a fish!".

The opposite of ME1's gameplay, where you talked your enemies to death. Literally in some cases.

[shep82]

Gatt9 wrote...




This is what Bioware means by "Things carry over",  not that your choices actually matter,  but that you get some emails.  Because EA's afraid they might lose a sale because someone might think he needs to play the preceeding games first,  and EA doesn't do anything that might not sell the most units humanly possible.

As far as Halo goes,  you don't need a word of the story,  if it moves,  shoot it.  Which ironically described ME2's approach to gameplay,  every problem has a solution...combat,  except for "I want a fish!".

I don't see it that way. Some decisons were in emails others had more of an impact they can't intergrate every possible decision into the game. They handled it fine.