262 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Hanz54321 wrote...

So where is it written that Lelianna was a spy for the chantry in Origins?  Have any of the developers/writers confirmed this somewhere?

No.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 02 septembre 2011 - 12:12 .

[Sinaxi]

Lol, people just speculate that she was. There is not any actual proof. All it says in her Codex is that after the Blight she is frequently seen at the Divine's side or something.

Modifié par Tidra, 02 septembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[thats1evildude]

There's no indication Leliana was working as a spy while travelling with the Warden. (And, quite frankly, the idea makes very little sense.) However, she put her bardic skills to work once the Blight was over, except this time as an agent for the Chantry.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 02 septembre 2011 - 12:18 .

[Satyricon331]

I think what prompts the belief is that Leli starts DAO with an amulet called "Seeker's Circle."

[UltiPup]

It is more likely that because of Leliana's adventures with the Warden that the Seekers picked her up. A Sister and an assassin? Perfect spy.

[thats1evildude]

Satyricon331 wrote...

I think what prompts the belief is that Leli starts DAO with an amulet called "Seeker's Circle."

That's a neat piece of foreshadowing, but I still find it hard to believe that Leliana was a spy for the Chantry in Origins.

It's not the idea I oppose — I have questioned myself once or twice whether Leliana was actually using the Warden — but the fact it implies the Seekers are damn near omniscient.

Leliana lived in the Lothering Chantry for several years before the onset of the Blight. How would she know the Warden would eventually come to Lothering, or that any Wardens would actually survive Ostagar?

And even if the Seekers somehow anticipated the Fifth Blight, why would they even send a spy to join the Warden? They would actually have to know of Flemeth's plans to have the Warden gather allies against the darkspawn, which I highly doubt. To the Seekers, the Warden would be just another random, lucky survivor of the massacre.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 02 septembre 2011 - 01:31 .

[Satyricon331]

thats1evildude wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...
I think what prompts the belief is that Leli starts DAO with an amulet called "Seeker's Circle."

That's a neat piece of foreshadowing, but I still find it hard to believe that Leliana was a spy for the Chantry in Origins.

It's not the idea I oppose — I have questioned myself once or twice whether Leliana was actually using the Warden — but the fact it implies the Seekers are damn near omniscient.

Leliana lived in the Lothering Chantry for several years before the onset of the Blight. How would she know the Warden would eventually come to Lothering, or that any Wardens would actually survive Ostagar?

And even if the Seekers somehow anticipated the Fifth Blight, why would they even send a spy to join the Warden? They would actually have to know of Flemeth's plans to have the Warden gather allies against the darkspawn, which I highly doubt.

Oh, I agree with much of what you say.  I suspect (or at least, wonder) whether they decided to shoehorn foreshadowing into DAO after the fact by naming the Seekers after the amulet, having not planned (while writing DAO) to have Leli be a part of a covert organization.  The name "Seekers of Truth" always struck me as strange since it makes it sound like the rest of the Chantry doesn't seek truth.

The other thing that makes me doubt she was a spy was how crazy she comes across at first.  Her whole "I see things and hear voices!" spiel would make more sense if it's true and it's her real reason for being there.  It would be possible both that she's a spy and she believes she had a vision, but if so she would have been smarter just not to mention the vision even though she thought it true.  By mentioning it despite being a spy, she would have needlessly run a real risk of getting rejected.  The only possible offsetting benefit I can see would be to keep the Warden from believing she's a spy, but surely there'd be less costly ways of doing so after she got the Warden to agree to take her.

[JPadinhaT]

In awakening ,if sucessfuly romanced, she sends you a letter or something telling you that she won't go to you right away because the Divine had something to discuss with her, I believe this is when she joined the Seekers.

[TobiTobsen]

JPadinhaT wrote...

In awakening ,if sucessfuly romanced, she sends you a letter or something telling you that she won't go to you right away because the Divine had something to discuss with her, I believe this is when she joined the Seekers.

Or presented the report about her last mission...

*X-Files music starts to play*

[thats1evildude]

TobiTobsen wrote...

*X-Files music starts to play*

The truth is out there. 

[whykikyouwhy]

I think the Seeker's Circle amulet is a wee bit of foreshadowing, but not meant to be indicative of Leliana's position at the time that you meet her in Origins. The item description is fairly innocuous - "A wheel representing the Maker's unending patience and Andraste's unquenchable passion. Simple and inspirational, though uncommon outside the Chantry. A gift meant to be given without conditions." To me, it's more about the symbol - a common Chantry symbol that also happens to be used by a select organization within the Chantry. The Seekers, while known to exist as a group, probably do not purposely advertise the identities of their members. 

I think that Dorothea saw the potential in her, and molded/guided her in the direction of putting her assassin/spy/bardic skills to the greater use of the Chantry. But I also think that Leliana's own remarks on her visions, on precognition, are worth remembering. It's possible that she made it all up (as the Guardian at the Urn states), or it's possible that she has indeed made a connection with some divinity.

[Lenimph]

Who's Lelianna?

[thats1evildude]

Lenimph wrote...

Who's Lelianna?

According to the "Bard from Orlais" thread in the Origins section, she's the F to your F/F romance. 

Yes, the OP misspelled her name. But I was willing to let it slide.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[berelinde]

She has always been a spy. She has not always worked for the Divine.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

From the DLC leliana's Song, we see that leliana and the current divine Justina (aka Dorthea) have quite a history together that goes back to when Leliana was first betrayed by Marjolaine. So they knew each other before Leliana went to Lothering, and before the Divine was the Divine.

So it is not impossible that she might have been working in some capacity for the Divine as far back as origins. She was wearing the "Seekers Circle" amulet when you first meet her. Gaider cryptically answered people's questions with something like "there's alot more going on we know about or aware of, but that statement is quite open and ambigous to interpretation. The main assumption of course, being that she was either a spy or working with the Divine for a long time.

Again however, its all pure speculation at this point, the developers won't say what's really going on. There is the fact she does "come back from the dead" somehow, if the Warden killed her at the Sacred ashes. She also still shows up if the warden never even recruited her, and speaks as if she knew the Warden well, though i don't know if this is just a bug. regardless, it does raise some interesting questions about leliana, and it's just as likely her whole role will remain a mystery.

[AxemanYako]

UltiPup wrote...

It is more likely that because of Leliana's adventures with the Warden that the Seekers picked her up. A Sister and an assassin? Perfect spy.

Agreed. I played her DLC, took her as my romance quest, and had her in my party almost every step of the way in Origins. I think all of the events she was apart of helped make her what she is now.

Modifié par AxemanYako, 02 septembre 2011 - 04:15 .

[Rifneno]

Yes.

[Urzon]

While she have prior dealings with a future Divine, i doubt she was a spy at the time when she joined the Warden. It would have taken alot of knowledge of the future to plan that all out, because the Warden and Alistair could have easily died in the Tower of Ishal (like they were suppose to, if Loghain got his way), and then where would she be?

Unless......

She was working for the Divine, and the Divine was working for............. Flemeth!!!!!

MAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Modifié par Urzon, 02 septembre 2011 - 11:20 .

[dsl08002]

In the awakening expansion if you import your warden from DAO you recieve a letter from leliana that you romanced that says that the grand cleric wanted to talk to her. so yes because the adventure with the warden the chantry was hoping to get her as a seeker.

But in the ending of awakening epilouge in the last part it says that the warden and leliana gets reunited, but in DA2 she is with the chantry and is searching for hawke and the warden.

She is probably the one who suggested that to look for the warden in the beginning, perhaps she

isn´t only looking for a hope to established peace but also trying to find the one she loves?.

[whykikyouwhy]

@Urzon - I doubt that the Divine is receing a biweekly paycheck from Flemeth, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Witch of the Wilds nudged a few extra pawns into place on the board.

I wonder how much chess they play in Orlais....

[Macropodmum]

I not long ago started another playthrough of Origins, and while she might not have been spying for the divine she wasn't exactly being truthful with the warden either. There are discrepancies in what we saw in Leliana's Song and the story she give the warden about Marjolaine. Add to that she made a comment about "No more lies between us, not about that anyway" and I kind of wonder what else she was hiding...

[TobiTobsen]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

@Urzon - I doubt that the Divine is receing a biweekly paycheck from Flemeth, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Witch of the Wilds nudged a few extra pawns into place on the board.

I wonder how much chess they play in Orlais....

Maybe one "aspect" of Flemeth IS the Divine? Shapechanging ftw!