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[LobselVith8]

Rifneno,

You need to help Kaitlyn before fighting the undead, by giving her the max amount of money after locating her brother, and then she marries Bann Tegan when they met in Denerim. You can also get a slide about Bella creating her own foundry if you offer to help her financially (and give her the max amount of money - same as with Kaitlyn) but don't speak to her again until after the undead are defeated.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

All I can tell you LobselVith8 is that I got this slide and this is all that I know, it said the urn was stolen. I know for a fact I killed Brother Genitivi in that PT.  I have always killed the High Dragon, I have never allowed it to remain alive.

Now one of the patches could have changed the outcome and the slide doesn't come up anymore. Same thing with the slide for Cullen. I don't recall ever seeing the slide for Cullen and him going crazy, as I said I don't remember asking for the boon for mages. I seem to recall on one of my old wardens that I did ask for the boon yet I don't remember seeing that slide. DAO and DAA both play totally different from the walkthroughs since all of the patches. Neither game plays like it did when they were first released. The patches changed alot of things.  Also, the epilogue slides are terribly bugged in DAO and DAA.  These bugs also affected imports into Awakenings which still haven't been fixed and they don't look like they are going to be.  No further patches for DAO or DAA.  For me I still have the silverite bug issue.

I believe that I had 12 different wardens when DAO first came out and I don't have access to those wardens anymore because they are on a old hard drive. I have to go to the computer store to buy a special USB plug for a SATA drive and turn it into a extra storage device and this is the only way I will have access to my warden that this happened too. If I can even regain those files at all. If I regain access to my old wardens and if I took a screenshot of that slide then I will post it or provide you with a link to my other dragon age albums. I can post the screenshot of the two Morrigan's in the room when the DR is going on with Alistair if anyone would like to see it and if the op won't mind or I can place it in the Speculation Thread. I also got a weird screenshot of a strange woman standing behind Alistair when I made him king and at first I thought this was the Grand Cleric, but it's not her. The woman has dark brown hair. I tried to get a better shot to determine if this Fiona, no such luck. I want to say she has a chantry robe on, but I'm not sure, I haven't looked at that shot in awhile.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 09 septembre 2011 - 04:13 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Rifneno,

You need to help Kaitlyn before fighting the undead, by giving her the max amount of money after locating her brother, and then she marries Bann Tegan when they met in Denerim. You can also get a slide about Bella creating her own foundry if you offer to help her financially (and give her the max amount of money - same as with Kaitlyn) but don't speak to her again until after the undead are defeated.

You can also return the sword to her and her brother becomes an adventurer in his own right in later years according to the slide. 

[RagingCyclone]

LobselVith8- here is the slide in question from the toolset (took me a while to remember where to find it)

Conditions: Player does not make the deal with Kolgrim: High Dragon is NOT dead:

Some years later , the Chantry announced the resting place of Andraste's Ashes had indeed been found. There were located, however, in ruins that were also the lair of a high dragon, thus proving too dangerous to approach. Many made demands to secure the Ashes so that followers could undertake pilgrimages to partake of their healing powers. Following numerous attempts to deal with the dragon, the beast finally flew off to find another haven...but leaving the mountaintop sanctum in ruins. An excavation found no traces of the Urn. People began to doubt that the Ashes had ever been found, while others claimed that a cult of Andraste's follower's stole them from the temple. Still some others say that the Maker Himself removed the Urn, deeming mankind unworthy of it. For now, what happened to the Urn is simply unknown...

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 09 septembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Thanks Raging Cyclone.

I did remember a slide said stolen. I guess I was wrong about the high dragon being alive. Could have been a bug. Nearly all of the epilogue slides are bugged. I was sure I always killed the dragon. Hmmm, interesting.

I do remember getting the one for Bella and Kaitlyn.  Since patch 1.03 for me they don't come up any more. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 09 septembre 2011 - 06:35 .

[LobselVith8]

@ Thanks for sharing, RagingCyclone.

@ ElvaliaRavenHart, the Epilogue slides for Kaitlyn and Bella are very bugged, and you need to give the money to Kaitlyn before your Warden engages on the attack against the zombies in order for the slides to show. The slide won't show otherwise. If you give her the maximum amount of money that you can, she'll marry Bann Tegan. It took me a few tries and a modder's assistance before I was able to get the slides to show properly.

Also, you can't speak to Bella again after you've promised to help her. You can't speak to Bella again until after the battle with the undead. Then you give her the maximum amount of money so she can made her foundry.

[RagingCyclone]

My pleasure all. That little tidbit is why I said the wiki is faulty. While it summarized what the sliders were, it didn't get the details which was where I think the confusion came from. If you have the toolset, the sliders are in the palette window, conversations, epilogue folder, and then slider cutscene.

Edit: As for the one about Bella I think is a myth because it's not in the toolset. For Kaitlyn the triggers are Redcliffe not abandoned, Bevin saved, Kaitlyn made rich in exchange for the sword (5 gold) she marries Teagan after she opens a foundry to become rich and they meet some years later, then if Bella goes to Denerim she opens a brewery.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 09 septembre 2011 - 03:13 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

RagingCyclone wrote...

LobselVith8- here is the slide in question from the toolset (took me a while to remember where to find it)

Conditions: Player does not make the deal with Kolgrim: High Dragon is NOT dead:

Some years later , the Chantry announced the resting place of Andraste's Ashes had indeed been found. There were located, however, in ruins that were also the lair of a high dragon, thus proving too dangerous to approach. Many made demands to secure the Ashes so that followers could undertake pilgrimages to partake of their healing powers. Following numerous attempts to deal with the dragon, the beast finally flew off to find another haven...but leaving the mountaintop sanctum in ruins. An excavation found no traces of the Urn. People began to doubt that the Ashes had ever been found, while others claimed that a cult of Andraste's follower's stole them from the temple. Still some others say that the Maker Himself removed the Urn, deeming mankind unworthy of it. For now, what happened to the Urn is simply unknown...

Yes, this is the slide I got in my canon ending as well, because that's what I did: preserved the ashes and killed Kolgrim and his crew, but did not kill the high dragon. It does seem to imply the ashes were removed or stolen.

[DPSSOC]

thats1evildude wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Because I don't agree with rectons when it comes to a narrative that's supposed to import previous player choices.

Eh. I don't mind setting aside some player decisions when they don't serve the narrative or when they don't please the majority of the fanbase. (Or when those decisions are kinda stupid.)

Case in point:  the writers decided that Anders had an important role in the story of DA2, and by a happy coincidence, Anders was also (arguably) the most popular NPC from Awakening. But what about those players who sold out Anders to the templars? They constitute only a small portion of the fanbase, and removing Anders from the equation screws up the entire plot of DA2. So who should be prioritized?

Cutting out Anders doesn't really screw up the plot though.  Any random nutjob mage could have filled his shoes.  By which I mean his previous connection to the Warden doesn't have any effect on the story (at least not that I've noticed or not yet).  There are references to the game (Ser Pounce-a-lot) but it's nothing that effects the narrative.  Heck since they tinkered with his appearance and got him a new VA they could have just added a single convo for those who did kill Anders that he's not really Anders but someone who knew and was inspired by him and decided to take on the name upon learning of his death.  He can still meet up with Justice, unless Justice is dead but then it could just be that both of them were approached by Vengeance in the guise of Justice in their dreams and possessed and they just assume it's their own internal demons that corrupted Justice.

Sure it's a lazy cop out but so is saying, "Alright we'll throw Anders in as this big catalyst for DA2"
"Can't players have him arrested or killed in Awakening?"
"Oh yeah...screw it so Anders is this big catalyst in DA2."  With no attempt made to fill in the gap (just jumping it unless I missed something).

thats1evildude wrote...
To an extent, I believe it's up to the players to make decisions that fit the narrative. I would never play a character who wasn't interested in stopping the Blight because, to me, that's self-defeating. I might as well throw my copy of Origins at the wall and go sulk in the corner.

And it's fine if the writers chose to make that decision, but don't market the game as if that's not the case.  For example in Fable 2 the game sets up canon for Fable (you didn't do the evil ending) and leaves the rest fairly vague.  Nowhere in the marketing was it suggested that the game would be different based on how you played Fable.  Same with Force Unleashed 2.  If you're going to establish some canon go right ahead but be open about it

thats1evildude wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
2) Why should their choices be ignored simply because everyone didn't kill Leliana? I didn't kill Leliana, but that doesn't mean I think their choice should be ignored. Why shouldn't their respective choice be accomodated in a narrative that's supposed to import their choices? They were paying money for a product that was advertised as importing their choices from Dragon Age: Origins, the same as I did.

Because the overall narrative is more important than accomodating every piddly little decision that every player may make. There is no way to please everyone.

Sure there is; don't make promises you only intend to keep for some players.  Again if Bioware had been open and said, "You can import a playthrough from DA:O and you'll see some changes in the world.  However some things are set in stone for the sake of the narrative."  Nobody would have a problem.  They'd understand that some of their decisions might not carry over and while they'd be disappointed they wouldn't get angry about it.  If they'd published a list before game release of what was set in stone it would have made things even better.  It's when they just say, "Your choices carry over." and a player can go through the game going, "No, no, nope, yes, no, no, no, kinda, no, no..." that they start to get angry over it.

[whykikyouwhy]

DPSSOC wrote...

*snip*

thats1evildude wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
2) Why should their choices be ignored simply because everyone didn't kill Leliana? I didn't kill Leliana, but that doesn't mean I think their choice should be ignored. Why shouldn't their respective choice be accomodated in a narrative that's supposed to import their choices? They were paying money for a product that was advertised as importing their choices from Dragon Age: Origins, the same as I did.

Because the overall narrative is more important than accomodating every piddly little decision that every player may make. There is no way to please everyone.

Sure there is; don't make promises you only intend to keep for some players.  Again if Bioware had been open and said, "You can import a playthrough from DA:O and you'll see some changes in the world.  However some things are set in stone for the sake of the narrative."  Nobody would have a problem.  They'd understand that some of their decisions might not carry over and while they'd be disappointed they wouldn't get angry about it.  If they'd published a list before game release of what was set in stone it would have made things even better.  It's when they just say, "Your choices carry over." and a player can go through the game going, "No, no, nope, yes, no, no, no, kinda, no, no..." that they start to get angry over it.

I have to agree with thats1evildude - there probably isn't a way to please everyone. Even if Bioware had released a full script of everything from the game prior to the game coming out, and advertised what story elements from DA:O would be reflective in DA2, I would wager that you would still have people who would feel wronged. Someone could have offered $100 to be packaged with each game, and still you would have probably had unhappy and even angry players. And that's not to say that players don't have a right to feel one way or the other (what I personally raise an eyebrow over is how some people choose to voice their discontent).

Maybe it's just that part of human nature to not be satisfied, maybe there are legitimate concerns to be voiced (but for every person with a concern about X, there is probably another person who loved X) - the audience for the DA-verse is broad, and arguably too broad to accommodate everyone's desires. At the end of the day though, it's Bioware's story, and we're just along for the ride. I'd rather snuggle into the seat with a milkshake and enjoy the scenery, than be sitting with my arms crossed not taking in the view. But that's just me.

[aries1001]

Re: The dragon and Kolgrim situation. I did not to do the deal with Kolgrim e.g. Kolgrim and his followers died. However I did not kill the High Dragon either. I also think I took Brother Genitivi with me. I did get the ending slide about how the lair of the dragon was to dangeorus to approach. And I also remember that the expedition did not find the ashes. Don't remember anything about the ashes being stolen, though.
Maybe if this rumour turns out to be true Leliana simply stole some of the ashes?

As for Anders being alive if killed in Awakening, please remember that he has a spirit within him; could this be an explanation for him being alive - even if he was killed in Awakening?

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

RagingCyclone wrote...

My pleasure all. That little tidbit is why I said the wiki is faulty. While it summarized what the sliders were, it didn't get the details which was where I think the confusion came from. If you have the toolset, the sliders are in the palette window, conversations, epilogue folder, and then slider cutscene.

Edit: As for the one about Bella I think is a myth because it's not in the toolset. For Kaitlyn the triggers are Redcliffe not abandoned, Bevin saved, Kaitlyn made rich in exchange for the sword (5 gold) she marries Teagan after she opens a foundry to become rich and they meet some years later, then if Bella goes to Denerim she opens a brewery.

No, I don't think it's a myth.  I too got the one on Bella before (Awakenings was even released) and I'd bet when the new patches came out they were changed.  So maybe they have plans for Bella further down the road??? 

You can also get a slide if you make Lloyd fight in the battle and the tavern owernship changes with Bella being the new owner and she changes the name of the tavern to the Grey Warden Rest.  You also loose the tavern as a merchant.  You get to empty out the inventory for the tavern and it doesn't cost you any gold.  Maybe this is a glitch I don't relly know.  There used to be glitch in the tavern and you get extra gold.  I think one of the patches changed this.  There used to be a youtube video on how to do this.

As for Kaitlyn you can return the sword to her instead of the money and she still leaves for Denerim.  The slide is different, it says that Bevin years later becomes a famous person in his own right.  You don't have to give her money, just return the sword to her.  Then this slide comes up. 

If you give Bella gold and Alistair is in the party you get an approval increase from him.  I think +1 or +2. 

You you pay Kaitlyn for the sword and Sten is with you, he will also give a +1 or + 2 approval rating.

[RagingCyclone]

I was only referring to the who married Teagan bit. Could be there was an addition for Bella to marry Teagan, I'm just saying I cannot prove it with the toolset.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

RagingCyclone wrote...

I was only referring to the who married Teagan bit. Could be there was an addition for Bella to marry Teagan, I'm just saying I cannot prove it with the toolset.

Do you think the patches affect the toolset?  Seems that they do.  Once again those slides are very bugged. 

I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply anthing.  I just remember a couple post above and a couple of other players had also gotten the ones on Bella and Kaitlyn.  I was just confirming for them and general info that I also got this slide.

I guess we need to get back on topic of Leliana being a spy or not.  We seem to have hijacked this thread on slide discussion.  Sorry OP.

[RagingCyclone]

Yeah, I only updated the toolset once. I never saw any additional updates to it.

[Chuvvy]

I don't understand Leliana. She's dating a bloodmage who's totally antichantry and really into mages being free from the chantry. Then becomes an assassin for the divine and is seemingly targeting mages who are trying to break free of the chantry. Also she can come back from the dead..

Anyway, Leliana is pretty deceitful, I mean most of her adult life has been spent lying to people to either kill or steal from them. Also if you play Lelianas Song it doesn't line up at all with what she tells you, And she's rocking a "Seekers Circle" through out the entire game, unless you take it off her. I doubt they planned for her to be working with the chantry all along (and I doubt that will happen), I mean DA2 screams "wouldn't it be cool if..." so I doubt they new what they were going to do with the DA franchise after DAO. That being said I wouldn't be tottaly surprised if it turns out that she was.

Modifié par Slidell505, 11 septembre 2011 - 11:15 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Slidell505 wrote...

I don't understand Leliana. She's dating a bloodmage who's totally antichantry and really into mages being free from the chantry. Then becomes an assassin for the divine and is seemingly targeting mages who are trying to break free of the chantry. Also she can come back from the dead..

Anyway, Leliana is pretty deceitful, I mean most of her adult life has been spent lying to people to either kill or steal from them. Also if you play Lelianas Song it doesn't line up at all with what she tells you, And she's rocking a "Seekers Circle" through out the entire game, unless you take it off her. I doubt they planned for her to be working with the chantry all along (and I doubt that will happen), I mean DA2 screams "wouldn't it be cool if..." so I doubt they new what they were going to do with the DA franchise after DAO. That being said I wouldn't be tottaly surprised if it turns out that she was.

Several of the points you make have been addressed in this thread - which, admittedly, is lengthy. For instance, the Seeker's Circle amulet may not be of the order, but rather, simply sumbolic of a faithful's role as a "seeker" of the Maker and his teachings. So too, it would make no sense for an order that keeps its members anonymous for the most part, to hand out shiny advertisements in the form of jewelry.

As far as her "seemingly targeting mages who are trying to break free of the chantry" - her role in DA2 seems to be one of fighting extremism. I think had there been a peaceful rebellion of sorts, a cry for there to be changes in the way the Circles are being run that did not involve possible plots to collect drakestone and the like, then her role would be different. There is nothing to suggest that she is in any way anti-mage so much as she is anti-extremism.

I personally don't agree with you that DA2 is a collection of "what if's" - I think some things may have been planned out long in advance. We have to get the bits of the story in pieces though, as it makes sense for the overall narrative to progress. Some plot elements just take time to come to fruition.

[RagingCyclone]

@Hanz54321---that would be incorrect according to the plot triggers in the toolset. The plot trigger for the marriage is whether Kaitlyn is made rich (5 gold) for the sword. Those other triggers you mention are not listed in the epilogue tree.

@Slidell505---I'll simply refer you to page 8 on this thread where your points have been addressed about the Seeker's amulet and the limitations of the DLC as to why it appears on the surface to be a lie or inconsistency with her story and the locale.

[DPSSOC]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I have to agree with thats1evildude - there probably isn't a way to please everyone. Even if Bioware had released a full script of everything from the game prior to the game coming out, and advertised what story elements from DA:O would be reflective in DA2, I would wager that you would still have people who would feel wronged. Someone could have offered $100 to be packaged with each game, and still you would have probably had unhappy and even angry players. And that's not to say that players don't have a right to feel one way or the other (what I personally raise an eyebrow over is how some people choose to voice their discontent).

Maybe it's just me then.  I'm generally ok with people not meeting my expectations (I live in the real world I'm accustomed to disappointment) provided they're up front with me about it.  If Bioware had said, "Some choices don't stick." I wouldn't even have been mildly disappointed when I found out which ones didn't.

I also think a probem some people have is that there's no accounting for the resurrections.  I grew up reading superhero comics (X Men, Batman, Superman, etc.) where people die and come back to life a lot, but there's always acknowledgement that the character was dead and an explanation of their return.  While with Leliana in Faith we get the first part we aren't given any explanation, and (unless I missed something) Anders doesn't even acknowledge that he should be dead if he died in Awakening.  Leliana can be excused because in the vanilla game she only shows up at the end so I can understand setting that up as a big reveal with explanations coming later, but we have Anders and Justice with us pretty much from the word go; yet if he died or wasn't recruited there's no acknowledgement or explanation of how we got from A to B.

I'm fine with Anders and Leliana being in DA2 regardless; what irritates me (and only slightly) is that we're never told how.  My first playthrough was with an Anders who fell at the Keep and when I saw him in DA2 my thinking was, "Anders?  Not that I'm not happy to see you again but wtf?" and the lack of an answer was a persistent source of irritation.

whykikyouwhy wrote...
At the end of the day though, it's Bioware's story, and we're just along for the ride. I'd rather snuggle into the seat with a milkshake and enjoy the scenery, than be sitting with my arms crossed not taking in the view. But that's just me.

Indeed and as I said if the writers want to bring certain characters back to life for the sake of the narrative it is their right to do so, but if you're going to carry over past decisions you need to fill in the gap between player and author creations.  I created a DA universe where Leliana died in a fight with the Warden at the Urn of Sacred Ashes, the writers created a universe where she's present in the Free Marches 10 years later, the two need to be connected or the story just feels disjointed

[RagingCyclone]

Hanz54321 wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

@Hanz54321---that would be incorrect according to the plot triggers in the toolset. The plot trigger for the marriage is whether Kaitlyn is made rich (5 gold) for the sword. Those other triggers you mention are not listed in the epilogue tree.
 

Well this is one of those times where experience trumps the toolset.  My post is as true as if I posted that water is wet and steel is hard.  Take it to the bank.

Same here, and all of those you mentioned, (Anora married Alistair, Eamon went home to try to raise another child with Isolde since Connor was killed, my city elf stayed as regent to Alistair) and Teagan still married Kaitlyn. 

edit: in my 16 finished playthroughs only twice did Teagan not marry Kaitlyn, and in those two I gave the sword back and Bevin became a hero. All the rest I bought the sword and she married Teagan.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 11 septembre 2011 - 06:25 .

[RagingCyclone]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Then there's nothing else to be said until Chris Knight shows up and solves the problem by supercooling the laser.

Until then...let's go grab a burger.