262 réponses à ce sujet

[RagingCyclone]

A lot of speculation comes from the fact that she has been retconned for DA2 like so many other facets of the game. So people have been looking at things and making speculation trying to make sense of the retcon when the writers have said nothing about why except something from Gaider that they haven't revealed everything for her yet in DA2.

It's a sign of the horrid writing that has gone on in the franchise to this point. Taken individually, Origins and DA2 have great writing, but when added together to become part of the same story, the retconning is so abundant that what was great writing becomes amateurish. It's as if the writers forgot to take notes of what they had done previously or never even played their own game to see what they had made possible. In Leliana's case her appearance in DA2 eliminates 50% at least of the possible outcomes that were available which is why there is the wild speculation trying to tie one game to the other for her story. Which is sad because the writers should have just used another character in place of her for DA2. Sadly that did not happen, and I worry that when DA3 comes out given the pattern the writers have shown thus far there will be even more retconning and handwaving.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 02 septembre 2011 - 01:36 .

[Wulfram]

TobiTobsen wrote...
Maybe one "aspect" of Flemeth IS the Divine? Shapechanging ftw!

Leliana, the Divine, Anders, the Arishok and Arl Howe are all Flemeth.

[TobiTobsen]

Wulfram wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...
Maybe one "aspect" of Flemeth IS the Divine? Shapechanging ftw!

Leliana, the Divine, Anders, the Arishok and Arl Howe are all Flemeth.

EVERYBODY is Flemeth. She was bored one day and decided to play a little game called "Thedas in the Dragon Age"

[caradoc2000]

The important thing is: she was The Spy Who Loved Me, serving On Her Majesty's Secret Service. In Haven, she apparently Dies Another Day, proving that She Only Lives Twice

[whykikyouwhy]

@Macropodmum - It's possible that Leliana's selective revelations have a lot to do with the various jobs she partook of while in Orlais. Throat-slitting and the like may not endear her to the Warden. Not ruling out that she is dancing around a far deeper truth though.

As far as Flemeth goes...*points to avatar*...she is me. From now on, I'll only speak in riddles and cackle madly when I click the Submit button for my posts.

[TobiTobsen]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

As far as Flemeth goes...*points to avatar*...she is me. From now on, I'll only speak in riddles and cackle madly when I click the Submit button for my posts.

Wait... you aren't doing that already? We are on the BSN after all.... *muhahahaha* *click*

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 02 septembre 2011 - 02:32 .

[Wulfram]

Macropodmum wrote...

I not long ago started another playthrough of Origins, and while she might not have been spying for the divine she wasn't exactly being truthful with the warden either. There are discrepancies in what we saw in Leliana's Song and the story she give the warden about Marjolaine. Add to that she made a comment about "No more lies between us, not about that anyway" and I kind of wonder what else she was hiding...

Why do you assume that Leliana's song is true, when she was explicitly telling a story and thus likely taking a bit of artistic license?

[TobiTobsen]

Wulfram wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...

I not long ago started another playthrough of Origins, and while she might not have been spying for the divine she wasn't exactly being truthful with the warden either. There are discrepancies in what we saw in Leliana's Song and the story she give the warden about Marjolaine. Add to that she made a comment about "No more lies between us, not about that anyway" and I kind of wonder what else she was hiding...

Why do you assume that Leliana's song is true, when she was explicitly telling a story and thus likely taking a bit of artistic license?

That's another aspect. We don't know if ANYTHING Leliana told us so far is true. They could possibly change everything about Leliana we know and say that it is fact, because we only know the stuff Leliana told us. And since she is a Bard.... sleeping with people to get their trust and inventing stories is what she does.

[Lenimph]

caradoc2000 wrote...

The important thing is: she was The Spy Who Loved Me, serving On Her Majesty's Secret Service. In Haven, she apparently Dies Another Day, proving that She Only Lives Twice

You sir, win an Internets!

RagingCyclone wrote...

A lot of speculation comes from the fact that she has been retconned for DA2 like so many other facets of the game. 

She wasn't retconned in DA2...The only real sign of possible retconn is her "coming back to life" if the GW kills her in DAO and of course she was still alive! She escaped a freakin dungeon, saving other people on the way, after she stabbed in the stomach, tortured, and who knows what else.  You think a little Grey Warden's final move animation is going to get in Leliana's way? lulz

Modifié par Lenimph, 02 septembre 2011 - 02:53 .

[Zjarcal]

Lenimph wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

A lot of speculation comes from the fact that she has been retconned for DA2 like so many other facets of the game. 

She wasn't retconned in DA2...The only real sign of possible retconn is her "coming back to life" if the GW kills her in DAO and of course she was still alive! She escaped a freakin dungeon, saving other people on the way, after she stabbed in the stomach, tortured, and who knows what else.  You think a little Grey Warden's final move animation is going to get in Leliana's way? lulz

Indeed... anytime I hear how she was "retconned" I just go "LOLWUT!?!"...  besides, her surviving the GW's pathetic attempt at killing her is not a retcon anyway, it's more proof of her badassness. 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 02 septembre 2011 - 02:59 .

[mousestalker]

Does anyone else 'ship Lelianna and Sandal?

Modifié par mousestalker, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:09 .

[TobiTobsen]

mousestalker wrote...

Does anyone else 'ship Lelianna and Sandal?

They are Andraste and the Maker after all...

[whykikyouwhy]

@mousestalker - I think they are siblings. Salamanders brethren. But no, alas, I do not 'ship them.

[jlb524]

mousestalker wrote...

Does anyone else 'ship Lelianna and Sandal?

I ship Leliana and Cassandra.

Way sexier.

[Zjarcal]

mousestalker wrote...

Does anyone else 'ship Lelianna and Sandal?

*reads carefully*

Yes, yes I do.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

A lot of speculation comes from the fact that she has been retconned for DA2 like so many other facets of the game. 

She wasn't retconned in DA2...The only real sign of possible retconn is her "coming back to life" if the GW kills her in DAO and of course she was still alive! She escaped a freakin dungeon, saving other people on the way, after she stabbed in the stomach, tortured, and who knows what else.  You think a little Grey Warden's final move animation is going to get in Leliana's way? lulz

Indeed... anytime I hear how she was "retconned" I just go "LOLWUT!?!"...  besides, her surviving the GW's pathetic attempt at killing her is not a retcon anyway, it's more proof of her badassness. 

If Leliana is killed then she can be as badass as you like, but seeing her back without an explanation is odd to say the least. Then BW adds fuel to the fire fire by declaring that "it will be explained in the future" *after* they are confronted with that. That doesn't sound believable to me. As a fan of the series and hoping that DA3 will be even better than both previous titles I hope BW doesn't repeat such disputable actions.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:23 .

[jlb524]

The Overrated One wrote...

I 'ship Fenris and giant phallic objects.

Wouldn't that be masturbation?

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

If Leliana is killed then she can be as badass as you like, but seeing her back without an explanation is odd to say the least. Then BW adds fuel to the fire fire by declaring that "it will be explained in the future" *after* they are confronted with that.

I'll at least hold out and see what their explanation is first before thinking they pulled it out of their bums.

Modifié par jlb524, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:26 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Just curious why an answer or reason for her appearance needs to be provided right away. Sure, it can be frustrating for those that opted to kill her, but to me it makes the story more intriguing. We've already been witness to wondrous things in-game - marvels of magic, demons, the Fade, etc. Nothing is ever simple in the DA-verse. Nothing is ever face-value.

Plus, there is enough evidence of body-swapping and possession, spirits taking residence, etc for there to be a myriad of obvious answers. Personally, I like the tease. I think the true story of the bard will be pretty d*mn cool. Just my take, of course.

[TobiTobsen]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Just curious why an answer or reason for her appearance needs to be provided right away. Sure, it can be frustrating for those that opted to kill her, but to me it makes the story more intriguing. We've already been witness to wondrous things in-game - marvels of magic, demons, the Fade, etc. Nothing is ever simple in the DA-verse. Nothing is ever face-value.

Plus, there is enough evidence of body-swapping and possession, spirits taking residence, etc for there to be a myriad of obvious answers. Personally, I like the tease. I think the true story of the bard will be pretty d*mn cool. Just my take, of course.

I agree with that.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[jlb524]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I think the true story of the bard will be pretty d*mn cool. Just my take, of course.

It's one of the things I look forward to the most.

I hope we get more in upcoming DA2 DLC and I won't have to wait until DA3.

*is impatient*

[Lenimph]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
If Leliana is killed then she can be as badass as you like, but seeing her back without an explanation is odd to say the least. Then BW adds fuel to the fire fire by declaring that "it will be explained in the future" *after* they are confronted with that. That doesn't sound believable to me. As a fan of the series and hoping that DA3 will be even better than both previous titles I hope BW doesn't repeat such disputable actions.

She does tell Hawke (who even says "I heard you were dead!") that the Maker wasn't going to let her go in the Exiled Prince DLC.  I guess if you don't have the DLC and just see her at the end... well then I can see why it's easy to get confused, but there is an explanation in the game and whether or not you think that's enough well, that's your decision. 

EDIT: Here's a youtube video if anyone who hasn't seen it wants too. 

Modifié par Lenimph, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:36 .

[RagingCyclone]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Just curious why an answer or reason for her appearance needs to be provided right away. Sure, it can be frustrating for those that opted to kill her, but to me it makes the story more intriguing. We've already been witness to wondrous things in-game - marvels of magic, demons, the Fade, etc. Nothing is ever simple in the DA-verse. Nothing is ever face-value.

Plus, there is enough evidence of body-swapping and possession, spirits taking residence, etc for there to be a myriad of obvious answers. Personally, I like the tease. I think the true story of the bard will be pretty d*mn cool. Just my take, of course.

There are more ways than her being killed in that she was retconned. I personally never killed her, and the two who replied earlier already know this abundantly well. <_< But there are other facets of her ending possibilities from Origins that preclude her from appearing as Sister Nightengale. I have said before in other threads her appearance should have been handled similar to Wrex's in ME2, but that has been argued over and again ad nauseum.

[KnightofPhoenix]

My personal speculation is that while Leliana was not an "active" Seeker prior to Origin, that she was close to them and of course to the future (incompetent) Divine. and she has the Seeker amulet. In otherwords, an "inactive" Seeker agent.

Just speculation mind you.

[AngryFrozenWater]

jlb524 wrote...

The Overrated One wrote...

I 'ship Fenris and giant phallic objects.

Wouldn't that be masturbation?

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

If Leliana is killed then she can be as badass as you like, but seeing her back without an explanation is odd to say the least. Then BW adds fuel to the fire fire by declaring that "it will be explained in the future" *after* they are confronted with that.

I'll at least hold out and see what their explanation is first before thinking they pulled it out of their bums.

Waiting until that explanation comes does not invalidate the critique about the current state of affairs and nor does it remove its disputable nature.