262 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Waiting until that explanation comes does not invalidate the critique about the current state of affairs and nor does it remove its disputable nature.

The explanation could invalidate it though...and remove disputable natures.

RagingCyclone wrote...
But there are other facets of her ending possibilities from Origins that preclude her from appearing as Sister Nightengale.

Like what?

Modifié par jlb524, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:41 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

jlb524 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Waiting until that explanation comes does not invalidate the critique about the current state of affairs and nor does it remove its disputable nature.

The explanation could invalidate it though...and remove disputable natures.

Until then the critique and its disputable nature holds.

[Lenimph]

RagingCyclone wrote...

 But there are other facets of her ending possibilities from Origins that preclude her from appearing as Sister Nightengale. 

So whatever she was doing after Origins should have taken her 7 years to get done and whatever the Warden told her about her faith should has stuck with her all that time? Right... 

[whykikyouwhy]

Since Leliana states that the Maker spoke to her, gave her a vision, perhaps he changed it up a bit. Gave her a new purpose or direction. Gods can be testy and indecisive, you know.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lenimph wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

 But there are other facets of her ending possibilities from Origins that preclude her from appearing as Sister Nightengale. 

So whatever she was doing after Origins should have taken her 7 years to get done and whatever the Warden told her about her faith should has stuck with her all that time? Right... 

Well at least she wasn't like Oghren

[KnightofPhoenix]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Since Leliana states that the Maker spoke to her, gave her a vision, perhaps he changed it up a bit. Gave her a new purpose or direction. Gods can be testy and indecisive, you know.

That would annoy me and would look like a very blunt plot device, unless they are willing to explore her visions in depth (like via the fade).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 septembre 2011 - 03:49 .

[jlb524]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Since Leliana states that the Maker spoke to her, gave her a vision, perhaps he changed it up a bit. Gave her a new purpose or direction. Gods can be testy and indecisive, you know.

The original vision only involved the Blight, so after that was stopped I'd say she's a free agent as far as 'feeling compelled to follow visions from an absent god' goes.

Modifié par jlb524, 02 septembre 2011 - 04:00 .

[whykikyouwhy]

@KnightofPhoenix - I can only speculate what is planned for her. And while the faith of many has been shattered with aspects of DA2, I'm going to wait it out and see, and hope for a good solid plotline with her. I think her story was mapped out years ago, and we're just getting breadcrumbs on the trail.

And if I'm wrong, I'll have a strong drink and salute the follies of expectation. It's just too early for me (operative point there) to hold any scorn regarding the bard and her seemingly miraculous appearances.

[KnightofPhoenix]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
And if I'm wrong, I'll have a strong drink and salute the follies of expectation. It's just too early for me (operative point there) to hold any scorn regarding the bard and her seemingly miraculous appearances.

Same for me. I think it could be interesting, if they....make it interesting. We'll see.

[TobiTobsen]

You all know how it's going to end... in a letter or a cameo. Just like Morrigan and the OGB ;D

[Gervaise]

Personally I've never killed Leliana and assumed for people that did, that she wasn't really dead (bit like Anders) but Lenimph says "the Maker wasn't ready to let her go"? Is this just poetic license or did the Maker actually go back on his own rule and intervene in the mortal world?!! Or by that did she mean that someone sprinkled her with sacred ashes and brought her back to life?

[Mr.House]

That's even if the vision is true, the Guardian hints that Leli might in fact be lying about her vision to just get attention.

[Zjarcal]

Mr.House wrote...

That's even if the vision is true, the Guardian hints that Leli might in fact be lying about her vision to just get attention.

Leliana herself admits the vision wasn't a "vision", that it was more of an interpretation of a dream.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

That's even if the vision is true, the Guardian hints that Leli might in fact be lying about her vision to just get attention.

Leliana herself admits the vision wasn't a "vision", that it was more of an interpretation of a dream.

I find it thus strange that the dream didnt come up in the Fade. That would have been the perfect opportunity.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

That's even if the vision is true, the Guardian hints that Leli might in fact be lying about her vision to just get attention.

Leliana herself admits the vision wasn't a "vision", that it was more of an interpretation of a dream.

I find it thus strange that the dream didnt come up in the Fade. That would have been the perfect opportunity.

I recall that the revered mother in the dream does mention the "vision", but it would've been cool indeed to see the actual dream.

Even better would've been to see Leliana's naughty dreams. Bioware really needs to focus on the important stuff. 

[Corker]

But... the "Seeker's Circle" is described as looking nothing like the Seekers of Truth symbol.

Hm. As a tabletop RPG GM, I would find it very unlikely that the Seekers of Truth existed in the writers' minds in DAO but were only alluded to in this tiny detail, and obliquely at that. Leliana was in Lothering seeking renewal and peace, and I think her personal item was reflecting that.

By the time they got to Witch Hunt, they obviously had started to develop the Seekers and were clue-dropping about them. In choosing the name, did they look back at their previous Chantry-based character, pick out a small detail and use it as inspiration? I would. Just because it sends PCs into fits of speculation as they wonder if I'd planned it this way all along. That sort of after-the-fact linking is *so* much easier than having it all built in up-front, especially if you're doing a serial and you're not entirely sure where the story is going to go.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...
Even better would've been to see Leliana's naughty dreams. Bioware really needs to focus on the important stuff. 

I wonder if the Maker is involved in those.

[Mr.House]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Even better would've been to see Leliana's naughty dreams. Bioware really needs to focus on the important stuff. 

I wonder if the Maker is involved in those.

Well he did make those parts for a reason

[whykikyouwhy]

@Corker - My DM is pretty fiendish and usually has his tiny plot devices planned out far in advance (as well as some treachery, but that's another matter entirely), so I don't know that the kernel of the Seekers wasn't already planted. Not saying they're not making it up as they go along. I could be wrong.

@KnightofPhoenix - Maybe not the Maker, but possibly a dragon. Or Morrigan.

[TobiTobsen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
Even better would've been to see Leliana's naughty dreams. Bioware really needs to focus on the important stuff. 

I wonder if the Maker is involved in those.

That would be an awesome opportunity for some really cheesy pickup lines and horrible dialogue.

"Prepare to feel the wrath of the Maker!"

"Did it hurt when you fell from my Golden City?

"I must have fallen asleep and gone to the fade, because I'm looking at a spirit of beauty."

"I must be lost. I thought I created paradise further south"

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 02 septembre 2011 - 05:13 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
@KnightofPhoenix - Maybe not the Maker, but possibly a dragon. Or Morrigan.

No.

I would have left her in the Fade if I saw that

TobiTobsen wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I wonder if the Maker is involved in those.

That would be an awesome opportunity for some really cheasy pickup lines and horrible dialogue.

"Prepare to feel the wrath of the Maker!"

"Did it hurt when you fell from my Golden City?

"I must have fallen asleep and gone to the fade, because I'm looking at a spirit of beauty."

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

Well the obvious one is "worship me". And yes, I think Leliana is a masochist.

[csfteeeer]

Lenimph wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
If Leliana is killed then she can be as badass as you like, but seeing her back without an explanation is odd to say the least. Then BW adds fuel to the fire fire by declaring that "it will be explained in the future" *after* they are confronted with that. That doesn't sound believable to me. As a fan of the series and hoping that DA3 will be even better than both previous titles I hope BW doesn't repeat such disputable actions.

She does tell Hawke (who even says "I heard you were dead!") that the Maker wasn't going to let her go in the Exiled Prince DLC.  I guess if you don't have the DLC and just see her at the end... well then I can see why it's easy to get confused, but there is an explanation in the game and whether or not you think that's enough well, that's your decision.

No that is not an explanation, that's a cop out from the Writers.
How can "god helped me" be an explanation?

My view is that the writers just wanted her back (for no reason because she doesn't do anything), and they didn't know how to explain it, and just went for this.
They simply retconned it, i think, they have already retconned plenty of things from Origins (namely the characters and the warden's situation), so what's stopping with this.
maybe they have actually come up with something by now, but i doubt they will focus on this any longer than they need.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 02 septembre 2011 - 05:20 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

 

[jlb524]

csfteeeer wrote...

No that is not an explanation, that's a cop out from the Writers.
How can "god helped me" be an explanation?

A better question is, why should she go into an explanation for a complete stanger?

csfteeeer wrote...
My view is that the writers just wanted her back (for no reason because she doesn't do anything), and they didn't know how to explain it, and just went for this.

I don't think that's a bad thing....they've done things like this before (Baldur's Gate 2) with no explanation given at all.

csfteeeer wrote...
They simply retconned it, i think, they have already retconned plenty of things from Origins (namely the characters and the warden's situation), so what's stopping with this.

I don't know...nothing from my pt felt retconned.  What are you referring to, exactly?

Modifié par jlb524, 02 septembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[csfteeeer]

I HIGHLY Doubt it, because there so many incoherences that if it actually ends up being truth, then it would become one of the most idiotic (sub)plots in BioWare history