30 réponses à ce sujet

[Pipboy3billion]

So, I'm trying to play a cannon party (Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir), and the main character is a Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric. To do so I also have to dual Imoen at level 7 (which I want to do immediately) to a mage, leaving me without a thief for a while unless i bring in a sub, which is my plan. I'm about 15k exp away from Imoen making level 7, and I'm trying to plan ahead. I only have a couple wilderness areas left near the bandit camp, then it's off to cloakwood or UB/DT. In any event, I definitely want a thief in my party.

The plan was to send Jah off to visit Firebead Elvenhair, reform the party, then pick up Safana in the meantime. I figure Jah was a good choice being that she isn't terribly helpful in BG1 when the protagonist is already a Cleric. I wouldn't actually kick out Jah, just reform the party and return to Elvenhair when I was ready to take her back. Then, when she gives me the "Are you sure you want me to go" line, I'd change my mind. However, with a rep of 20, I don't even get that option (I tested it just now). She just up and leaves.

Obviously, I can't afford to lose Jah and Khalid. I was thinking that I could do the same with Dynaheir (who would stay, being LG), but then she's going to miss out on 100k exp while Imoen is catching up. Essentially, whatever I leave her at is where she'll be for the rest of the game, and she won't get level 5 spells (which is where an invoker shines).

So, I'm trying to decide:

1) Go without a thief for a while.
2) Ditch Dynaheir for a bit.
3) Be cheesy, keep the party, and level in the flesh golem cave.

Any tips? Thanks.

[aries1001]

I think, maybe, that if kick Dynaheir out, Minsc will leave to. However, If you leave say Jaheira in place, say behind a locked door, she'll stay there. At least, that's what I've been told. I've have never done this, but it seems a solution at least. It's been a while since I played BG1 so I can't remember if Jaheira leaves you for good. If you do a google search to find Dan Simpson's BG1 walkthrough, it might just tell you more.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I wonder when somebody is finally going to write a mod that removes this ridiculous downtime of your first class for dualclasses. It's not realistic and there are probably quite enough people who don't like it (just as there are quite a few D&D enthusiasts who wouldn't even consider playing without it).

I recently saw a speedrun that exploited a few interesting bugs involving kicking people out of the group but not talking to them about it (they would initiate the talk even when the player was already in a different area).

[Pipboy3billion]

I checked DS's walkthrough, but it didn't say much about this. Basically, what I discovered is if your rep is high enough (19-20 for Neutral aligned NPCs), when you kick them out, they don't even give you the option to change your mind in dialogue, they just ****** off as soon as they can initiate dialogue. So, if I cut Jah with a high rep, the second she can talk to me, she's (and Khalid) is gone for good.

I just finished dualing Imoen before posting this and am currently in the spider area of Cloakwood. I might just SK her so she's 1 exp from getting her thief levels back. I know it's cheating, but the way I see it, it's less cheesy than camping out in the flesh golem cave. That is, with SK, only Imoen gets a bump. However, camping out will practically max out the entire party, and I've yet to finish Cloakwood, BG city, or ToSC.

It's very difficult to play a canon party without screwing yourself over.

EDIT: Actually, I'm going to go with Plan B and just do without a thief for the rest of cloakwood, UB, and possibly BG city. Hopefully, by the time I get to DT (where I'll really need a thief), Imoen's levels will be back. Canon is canon...

Modifié par Pipboy3billion, 03 septembre 2011 - 12:48 .

[Son of Imoen]

You might just 'accidentaly' get caught with burglary inside a house (giving you a -2 rep if the Flaming Fist catches you doing it), just make sure you run away instead of getting into a fight or you will have an opposite reputation-problem (edit: ...if you kill them).

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 03 septembre 2011 - 12:52 .

[devSin]

Wow, I'm really quite surprised that the neutrals have a breaking point for good reputation (I'm pretty sure BG2 doesn't). I don't remember that at all. How dumb.

You can edit a 2DA to change it, or just change Jaheira's alignment in your saved game (she's not really TN anyway).

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

I wonder when somebody is finally going to write a mod that removes this ridiculous downtime of your first class for dualclasses. It's not realistic and there are probably quite enough people who don't like it (just as there are quite a few D&D enthusiasts who wouldn't even consider playing without it).

This stuff is all in the bowels of the engine. You're never going to get away from it without some really ugly hacks (which would probably just break everything else).

Modifié par devSin, 03 septembre 2011 - 01:15 .

[polytope]

I'd be inclined - in your case - to swap Jaheira and Khalid for Coran, he's a better archer than Khalid and you don't really need a second divine caster. If you're determined to keep the canon party, it'll be a long wait for lvl 8 mage with the xp divided between six NPCs.

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

I wonder when somebody is finally going to write a mod that removes this ridiculous downtime of your first class for dualclasses. It's not realistic and there are probably quite enough people who don't like it (just as there are quite a few D&D enthusiasts who wouldn't even consider playing without it).

In fact, the dual classing restrictions in BG don't reflect 2ed, in which you would keep your character's skills when dual classed; you just didn't get any experience from encounters where you use them until reaching a higher level in your new class than your previous one.
 
Of course, that would have been much harder to code, so it's no surprise the devs didn't implement it, and like DevSin said, it's probably beyond the scope even of ToBEx or Gemrb.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Pity, but thanks for the info.

[aries1001]

Do you have the Tales of the Sword Coast expansion? This will bump the experience cap from 89,000 to 161,000 points. And give at least 2-3 levels. There are also rumours about a level cap remover somewhere, but I have never used this. Is UB Ulgoth's Beard? and what is DT?

In BG city itself, I know there is a thief, called Jan - somewhere.

[Pipboy3billion]

I do have the expansion. I know I'll really need the thief for DT (Durlag's Tower) and I definitely want one for the ice cave. I just did Cloakwood Mines w/o a thief, and it wasn't that bad until the last level. Without a way to disarm traps, I had to fight the two battle horrors before Davaeorn. On the bright side, I needed the 8000 exp so it's all good.

Also, I'm not cheating...so no cap removers.

[aries1001]

From one of my friends I've heard that Jan is actually a pretty good thief...in the game, I mean.

[Son of Imoen]

Jan is a BGII character, pipboy is asking about BG/TOTSC.

It's an interesting case he has though: how could Imoen have gotten her experience to dual at level 7 in the default party? Did pipboy discover an impossibility in the assumptions of BGII-SOA?

[aries1001]

Sorry, I forgot Jan was BG2 character.

Coran seems to be a BG1 thief.
source:

http://www.gameskb.c...-impotant-thief

So does Safana?

[morbidest2]

S. of I.: I think you'll find that the "rules" don't apply to some of our favorite NPCs - Minsc, Jaheira, Imoen... - as they transit between BG1 and BG2, Blame it on Ao or the Devs.... Or, if you don't like the idea of "divine intervention", how about assuming that Jon I. forced developed latent magical abilities in Imoen as a side effect of torturing her, and that some of these forces spilled over onto Minsc and Jaheira. And of course the same thing happened with the PC, which would explain any differences in the PC between the end of BG1 and the beginning of BG2.   

Modifié par morbidest2, 04 septembre 2011 - 01:37 .

[Pipboy3billion]

how could Imoen have gotten her experience to dual at level 7 in the default party?

Yeah, it's weird, and it bothers me that the devs (especially these devs, considering their incredible work in the past) would miss something like this. I think a better route would have been to not have the other canon characters come as a pair. If you had one pair (like Jaheira and Khalid) and two unlinked NPCS, you could ditch one to sub in a thief for a while. Actually, I think it would have been a good idea if they killed off Khalid in BG1, then made Dynaheir become Irenicus' experiment (she is a magic user after all). Then it would serve two functions. One, it would free a spot for Imoen to dual. Two, it would make Jaheira's romance much less creepy, giving her a significant amount of time to mourn his death.

Modifié par Pipboy3billion, 04 septembre 2011 - 11:09 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Oh, they did other stupid things (like a 20year old, fully matured dragon...). Nobody's perfect.

[Pipboy3billion]

I just figured out how to pull it off. Create your PC, get Imoen after Candlekeep, pick up Jah and Khalid, and play as a four person party. When you dual Imoen, pick up another thief. Do all the thief-required things (like DT, Firewine, Ulcaster, etc.), then ditch her. Stick with the four person party and level Imoen some more. When she gets close, THEN pick up Minsc, rescue Dynaheir, and now you have your canon party for the rest of the game.

In a way, it makes sense to do it this way. Minsc has better proficiencies when you pick him up later, and Dynaheir comes with a lot more spells.

[polytope]

Pipboy3billion wrote...
In a way, it makes sense to do it this way. Minsc has better proficiencies when you pick him up later, and Dynaheir comes with a lot more spells.

Yes, it's tempting to do this in both games; the higher level versions of NPCs are frequently much better, having even more hp than you'd expect  compared to their low level versions. Haer (BG2) in particular has specialization in long sword if you recruit him at lvl 15, which is much more useful than being specialized in short sword.

Modifié par polytope, 06 septembre 2011 - 02:43 .

[Pipboy3billion]

Why they gave him SS is beyond me. I might just SK him to however I end him in BG1.

[Master of Tacos]

I've never dual classed Imoen, ad i've been through the game a few times. Theres 2 good mages you can use for a neutral/good party, and i never have more than 1 mage in my party. Personally i'd keep imoen as theif and avoid the hastle.

[Son of Imoen]

Imoen dualed at level 5 or even 7 (longer wait) is a great asset to have as a secondary mage. I often made Dynaheir into a sorceror and both to a sorceror as to an enchanter, the spell selection for a pure, though minor level mage are a great supplement.

[corey_russell]

Having Imoen dual to mage works great in a 4 man parties - would be her for mage/thief tasks, cleric or druid, a tank and the PC. Well balanced force and level bit faster with smaller party. Otherwise you need two 2 people to replace Imoen, as there are no mage/thiefs in BG 1.

[The Fred]

I once dualed her at L2 to get basically a mage. Nowadays I would probably just play mage and/or wait until I got Dynaheir and/or Xan. Dualing her once she has got enough points to cover most traps and locks is better, IMO - L4 or 5 or so. I think 6 is best if you can wait duringst her downtime. Player mage, Imoen as a Mage/Thief, Minsc, Dynaheir, Xan and a Cleric would be nice. I try never to play with less than three mages, minimum.

Incidentally, with the Tome of Clear Thought, Safana can fill the same role as Imoen (i.e. dualing from Thief to Mage). You could also use one as a thief whilst the other is dualing, but having two thief/mages is a bit pointless, since you'd be better off with one and a pure mage probably (though if you were using both full-time, they'd get more XP than if you used one as a thief during the others downtime and then took on a new mage. Also mages with bows are cool; a Fighter -> Mage would be better for this, though).

[The Fred]

Pipboy3billion wrote...

I just figured out how to pull it off. Create your PC, get Imoen after Candlekeep, pick up Jah and Khalid, and play as a four person party. When you dual Imoen, pick up another thief. Do all the thief-required things (like DT, Firewine, Ulcaster, etc.), then ditch her. Stick with the four person party and level Imoen some more. When she gets close, THEN pick up Minsc, rescue Dynaheir, and now you have your canon party for the rest of the game.

Or solo until L6, then pick everyone up, do all the thief stuff, dual Immy, then progress through the rest of the game. Only issue is syncing it with Ch 4 - maybe do thief stuff, drop everyone else, go through Chs 2-3 with just Immy, pick the others back up and do Cloakwood. Immy still probably wouldn't have got her thief abilities back, but then maybe you could do the Sirene coast, Basilisk area, parts of Durlag's etc if you hadn't done them whilst soloing.

[Pipboy3billion]

The only reason why I'm dualing Imoen when I am is for continuity of my cannon party. This will work well for BG2 where my core party is going to be Jah, Minsc, Immy, and myself (Cleric/Ranger, though that might change). With how magic works in this game, I would be using mages (and thieves, for that matter) as toolkits and Immy has both bases well covered.