21 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

In the Act II companion quest, A Bitter Pill, after Fenris kills Hadriana, Hawke is not given the option to approve of his having done so.  Every dialogue option is disapproval.  There are many different ways to disapprove, but Hawke is forced to disapprove.

Even though, in the quest itself, Fenris had to stop Hawke from killing Hadriana herself, and Hawke followed the killing by saying "You beat me to it."  So why then is Hawke forced to tell Fenris that what he did was a bad idea?

That doesn't make any sense at all.

[Northern Sun]

Isn't there a dialogue option that says: "She deserved to die"? I can't remember what that paraphrase actually says though.

[Ronin1182]

You can agree with his choice at the Hawke Estate when you speak with him.

Modifié par Ronin1182, 02 septembre 2011 - 07:55 .

[phaonica]

Are you talking about immediately after he kills Hadriana or at the mansion afterwards? I could have sworn there was an option immediately after killing her that you can agree that she deserved to die.

Modifié par phaonica, 02 septembre 2011 - 08:00 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ronin1182 wrote...

You can agree with his choice at the Hawke Estate when you speak with him.

That's what I'm talking about.  There was no way for me to agree with him in that conversation.  Maybe if I'd chosen a different option earlier I would have seen a different set of alternatives, but nothing I said before was a condemnation of his action, so I shouldn't have then been required to disapprove.

[Ronin1182]

No, I'm pretty sure that option is in the follow-up conversation at the Hawke Estate.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ronin1182 wrote...

No, I'm pretty sure that option is in the follow-up conversation at the Hawke Estate.

I'm going to go back and map out the tree to show exactly how it fails.

[phaonica]

I just looked at some videos on youtube. The paraphrase "She deserved to die" has the potential to show up at both places: immediately after killing Hadriana AND the mansion later.

Edit: maybe I can get the video links to work:

www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par phaonica, 02 septembre 2011 - 08:16 .

[esper]

If you are rival I don't think you can agree with him.

[berelinde]

Regardless of whether you are a friend or a rival, you can still tell Hadriana that whatever comes next is Fenris's call. I usually pick that option. My canon Hawke isn't the kind of guy that approves of what Fenris does, but he understands that he has not right to interfere.

[esper]

Really? Also at Hawke's estate? because I don't remember having that option there. I guess I will pay attention to that in my next playthrough.

[Sylvius the Mad]

esper wrote...

If you are rival I don't think you can agree with him.

I was wondering about that.  My Hawke is a rival, because she thinks his anti-mage stance is idiotic.  And in general, my Hawke thinks Fenris makes bad decisions, which is why she tried to kill Hadriana rather than wait for Fenris to do it.

But once Fenris did do it, that was a good decision, and I would like my Hawke to acknowledge that.

Again, I'll go back any replay all the possible dialogue options there to see what's possible, and what assumptions the writers appear to be making.

[Ryzaki]

Only friendship Hawke can agree with him in that scenario.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ryzaki wrote...

Only friendship Hawke can agree with him in that scenario.

If that's true, how does that make any sense at all?  Why is Hawke forced to disagree with Fenris in that specific instance, even though she can agree with him on the same topic just a few minutes earlier?

That's incredibly sloppy design.

[phaonica]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Only friendship Hawke can agree with him in that scenario.

If that's true, how does that make any sense at all?  Why is Hawke forced to disagree with Fenris in that specific instance, even though she can agree with him on the same topic just a few minutes earlier?

That's incredibly sloppy design.

Really, I got so used to being unable to express what I wanted my character to express that I gave up on it pretty quickly.

Modifié par phaonica, 03 septembre 2011 - 02:58 .

[Wulfram]

A lot of the friendship/rivalry conversations assume things about Hawke's attitude which aren't necessarily justified. It's very annoying.

[andraip]

If you have rivalry between Fenris and your Hawke, then you agreed to disagree.

[Ryzaki]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Only friendship Hawke can agree with him in that scenario.

If that's true, how does that make any sense at all?  Why is Hawke forced to disagree with Fenris in that specific instance, even though she can agree with him on the same topic just a few minutes earlier?

That's incredibly sloppy design.

Heck if I know. That's just how the game is .Just like the game assumes if you're friends with Anders you agree that he can control Justice and don't think Justice is a demon. 

[Harid]

You can't really roleplay in this game. You are kind of handicapped by several of Bioware's design decisions.

I am surprised that no one has stated "Who are you to malign Bioware's vision? How dare you, you.. . paying customer!"

[Sylvius the Mad]

andraip wrote...

If you have rivalry between Fenris and your Hawke, then you agreed to disagree.

But that shouldn't require that we disagree about everything.  They're forcing Hawke to be flat character.  I can't believe the writers would do that on purpose.

My Hawke disagrees with Fenris that "Mages", as a general group, are bad.  It does not follow from that that Hawke must believe that all individual Mages are good.  That conclusion can only be the result of a horribly flawed syllogism.

[Sabariel]

On a semi-related note... I dislike that a Blood Mage Hawke can only be disapproving of blood magic. I don't think I ever got the option of telling Merrill: "Blood magic isn't so bad... let's go slit each other's wrists and dance in the moonlight! "