452 réponses à ce sujet

[DrFumb1ezX]

Imrahil_ wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Imrahil_, not to end the parade or anything, but do you mind NOT pissing in everyone's mouth who likes DA2? Or tries to defend Bioware's decision? Jeez, I sound like a douche there. Sorry.

I've seen far worse games than DA2 get good scores. I view it as a testament to Bioware's skill that DA2 was a successful as it was, despite the development cycle.

I'm not trying to.  I completely apologize if that's how it sounds.  What I'm trying to do is say what I don't like about DA2, & why I won't buy DA3 if it has the features from DA2 that I don't like.  I'm trying to convey my thoughts unapologetically, as a consumer who didn't buy their DA2 game.  I'm trying to say what will make me not but a DA3 game.

That's it.

I'm not trying to insult people who liked DA2, but I have to say why I didn't like it.  I'm sorry if in doing so I'm insulting people who did like DA2.  Not my intenton at all & I apologze if I step over that line.  I'm just trying to say why I didn't like stuff & I'm trying to do it in a way that let's them know that tossing me a few DA:O bones won't get me back as a customer.  In short, I don't mean to isult other people, but I do, empahtically, mean to insult DA2.

Alright, it's just that that is what a lot of your posts seem to speak to me, and I respect your opinion. My bad.

I understand a lot of people despised DA2, but I like what I'm hearing so far about DA3. However, this "marriage" of DA:O and DA2 is not 15% and 85%. It better be 50/50, or it just won't work. That's what most of the community is saying, and I hope Bioware listens.

[Imrahil_]

soccerchick wrote...
I understand a lot of people despised DA2, but I like what I'm hearing so far about DA3. However, this "marriage" of DA:O and DA2 is not 15% and 85%. It better be 50/50, or it just won't work. That's what most of the community is saying, and I hope Bioware listens.

No offense, honestly, but even 50-50 won't get me back.  And they don't have to cater to me, obviously, but I feel the need to tell them that.  It's my money they want, after all.

[FaWa]

Its not like we have a right for Dragon Age 3 to be good. Bioware has given us a lot with Origins, so I mean its not like BioWare HAS to give us an amazing game. We can just not buy it. Trust isn't an issue, because this isn't a situation where BioWares owes us anything.

That said, I think BioWare can learn from their mistakes. EA was the only reason DA2 was screwed up and they did that out of profit margin. Since DAO's profits are better then DA2's, we can only assume they would try to be closer to Origins

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

The more important question should be "Does Bioware trust fans to buy DA 3?"

And the answer is "they shouldn't" at this point without alot of convincing.

[Imrahil_]

FaWa wrote...

Its not like we have a right for Dragon Age 3 to be good. Bioware has given us a lot with Origins, so I mean its not like BioWare HAS to give us an amazing game. We can just not buy it. Trust isn't an issue, because this isn't a situation where BioWares owes us anything.

I'm not getting your point.  Like, at all.  I think that's the wrong approach to take.  If I'm hearing you right, you're saying that because they gave us a good game in Origins, they don't have to give us any more good games?  Or, any more amazing games?

On the one hand, I agree with you - it's totally their right to put out games that we won't buy.  They can follow their blighted vision & ignore what the fans want, sure.  That's their right.  But on the other hand, I don't agree that we should just sit back & take it.  We can, certainly, just sit back & not buy their games, but isn't that a Lose-Lose? 

Isn't it better to tell them what we won't buy?  To sit back & passively watch them fail seems to me to be hurting us, the gamers.  It does no good to hurt them as well, out of spite.

Modifié par Imrahil_, 05 septembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[Stanley Woo]

I think FaWa's reasoning is sound. It's just a different way of looking at the developer/customer relationship. While many people really want to think that BioWare's lovingly crafting personalized games for each and every individual and handing them their copy of the game in exchange for the customers' hard-earned money, in reality this isn't the case.

While we love you guys and all of our fans, we (BioWare EA) as a business cannot afford to "address" our games to any individual over another. We make our games for a particular market, an average generalization of what we think our target audience wants. We also try to do things slightly differently each time so our products are new and exciting (we hope) and so we're set up for future products. This is not thumbing our nose at people who disagree with us, or "abandoning our fans," but the very nature of big business. The bigger and more popular a game/franchise/company is, the less it can "personalize" its product.

To counteract this lack of "personalization," we developers come into the community to chat with y'all. We have fun with you guys, we explain parts of upcoming games, we try and persuade folks to get excited about new features or awesome characters, and we generally want y'all to care about the product as much as we do. That way, if we do something like, say, change the art direction or change the format of a game or introduce a very different protagonist, y'all don't take it personally and think we want to come down and kick your puppies. We merely disagree, and that's not personal.

[Stanley Woo]

Imrahil_ wrote...

I'm not getting your point.  Like, at all.  I think that's the wrong approach to take.  If I'm hearing you right, you're saying that because they gave us a good game in Origins, they don't have to give us any more good games?  Or, any more amazing games?

Actually, no, we don't. If BioWare, for whatever reason, decided to shut down the Dragon Age franchise--or, heavens forbid, shut down as a company--there's nothing you could do to stop it and BioWare would be well within its rights to do so. There is no contract between you and the company that obligates BioWare to produce anything.

Yeah, it would totally suck, but BioWare owes you nothing in that context.

On the one hand, I agree with you - it's totally their right to put out games that we won't buy.  They can follow their blighted vision & ignore what the fans want, sure.  That's their right.  But on the other hand, I don't agree that we should just sit back & take it.  We can, certainly, just sit back & not buy their games, but isn't that a Lose-Lose? 

No, it's just the nature of the developer/customer relationship. We make games, then you decide, based on research, reviews, announced features, even the flip of coin, whether or not to pick it up. Deciding not to buy the game is hardle "sitting back and taking it." In fact, it's quite the opposite.  By not purchasing the game, you are making a definite decision to not support that product. It's not just your right as a consumer/fan to vote with your wallet. I would say it's your duty as a responsible consumer to vote with your wallet.

Isn't it better to tell them what we won't buy?  To sit back & passively watch them fail seems to me to be hurting us, the gamers.  It does no good to hurt them as well, out of spite.

There's no way you can magically change a product into something you will like for sure, since you won't know whether you will like a game until you play it or watch enough gameplay videos or play the demo or whatever. By that time, it is too late to change anything. So no, you're not hurting anything by speaking your mind and offering suggestions, ideas and feedback. On the other hand, you're also not hurting anything by remaining silent and seeing how it goes. While we prefer you guys talking about the game, like it or no, we cannot force you to do so.

"Telling us what you won't buy" is all well and good, but you speak only for yourself, not for others and certainly not for the entirety of our target audience. Bear that in mind.

[culletron1]

Bioware don't have to do anything they don't want to... And that is exactly as it should be

However, after playing the witcher and Deus Ex, it appears there are plenty companies willing to make games that cater exactly to my tastes so I am not overly worried.

Will bioware continue to make the type of products I want? Who knows... but they are certainly more than capable of doing it

[culletron1]

Stanley Woo wrote...

By not purchasing the game, you are making a definite decision to not support that product. It's not just your right as a consumer/fan to vote with your wallet. I would say it's your duty as a responsible consumer to vote with your wallet.

Excellent point... though we can't force bioware to do anything we are not powerless. We vote with our dollars on what products we want. 

[Imrahil_]

Stanley Woo wrote...
[stuff I agree with]

I'm not sure we disagree, although you appear to think we do.  There's really very little difference in what we said.  Please, re-read my post, & tell me if that's untrue.

I believe I said the exact same thing  that you did.  Bioware is free to make anything they want.  All we can do is approve or disapprove.  Sometimes with our opinion before the game comes out.  Otherwise with our wallet after the game comes out.

I'm pretty sure you said the same thing I did.  There is no disagreement here.  Start of line?

Modifié par Imrahil_, 05 septembre 2011 - 09:29 .

[jbrand2002uk]

 What about the middle of the line too poor dude's feeling a little left out here 

Humour aside and back OT Stanley's shown his vast experience by putting across far more elegantly the point i made ooh several pages back, I for one will certainly be one of those who'll be reading the reviews, playing the demo etc.

While its different for everyone for me i'll be buying the game and giving it a fair chance as even the best put together demo can only give you a flavour of the game and I've always been an avid believer in that old adaage of dont judge a book by its cover.

So yes i do trust the guys at Bioware to do what they have been doing very well time after time for many many years and long may it continue, oh and dont worry if it sounded like i was kissing anyone's behind i did brush my teeth honest daddy 

[Imrahil_]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

 What about the middle of the line too poor dude's feeling a little left out here 

Humour aside and back OT Stanley's shown his vast experience by putting across far more elegantly the point i made ooh several pages back, I for one will certainly be one of those who'll be reading the reviews, playing the demo etc.

While its different for everyone for me i'll be buying the game and giving it a fair chance as even the best put together demo can only give you a flavour of the game and I've always been an avid believer in that old adaage of dont judge a book by its cover.

So yes i do trust the guys at Bioware to do what they have been doing very well time after time for many many years and long may it continue, oh and dont worry if it sounded like i was kissing anyone's behind i did brush my teeth honest daddy 

Yes, Stanley.  This is your target audience now.  You should cater to jbrand2002uk.  He's in the UK, for queen's sake!  Smiley faces all around.  He still trusts you.

[xkg]

^
Yep lol "I'll buy the game no matter what" is very reasonable attitude ... very

[jbrand2002uk]

Just to clarify I hate the queen but stanley's point is unarguable vote with you wallet if at release based on the reviews and demo you like what hear about DA3 then buy it, otherwise just dont buy it and move on life's too short and their will no doubt be many other games out there that suit your particular case for you to get all drama queenie about 1 game in a world of millions of games

[Kilshrek]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Just to clarify I hate the queen but stanley's point is unarguable vote with you wallet if at release based on the reviews and demo you like what hear about DA3 then buy it, otherwise just dont buy it and move on life's too short and their will no doubt be many other games out there that suit your particular case for you to get all drama queenie about 1 game in a world of millions of games

That's extremely unpatriotic of you, sir. And incidentally, there's been a similar sort of argument regarding football/soccer(pooh) clubs. My example here would be Manchester United, where a section of fans called for boycotts to protest against the American owners putting the club into debt. Noble idea, only for every fan who cancels a season ticket or doesn't buy a jersey, there's always another one waiting in the wings to buy that now available season ticket.

Once you build up a name you can rely on your reputation to pull it in.

[jbrand2002uk]

@ Imrahl_ are you ok bro you seem very agreeable, are you running a temperature maybe? how about a pint of English ale at the Hanged man on me

[jbrand2002uk]

I'd also like to state for the record that football/soccer is the only thing in the world i hate more than the queen cant really see the appeal in watching 22 primadonna's kicking an air filled ball around a big patch of astro turf for a hour and a half, its like watching paint dry.

But to answer your question Bioware didnt build its reputation soley on DAO, sure it was their biggest seller apparently. Even if future forbid DA3 doesnt entirely revert to the old DAO format entirely thats not the end of the world or Bioware or the DA franchise it just means a group of people will be unhappy and whichever way DA3 goes there's bound to be some people unhappy somewhere about something it is the way it is and thats the way it will be.

[jbrand2002uk]

@ Fandango9641, Nah i hear he doesn't have good control of his rudder, besides women are my flavour my friend

[Red_Sonja]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 05 septembre 2011 - 10:20 .

[Erynor]

I just know that every time I think of the phrase "shuffling into position" I want to scream.

[jbrand2002uk]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 05 septembre 2011 - 10:21 .

[G00N3R7883]

I still trust Bioware. They've been entertaining me for more than ten years.

I loved Baldur's Gate.
I loved Baldur's Gate 2.
I enjoyed Neverwinter Nights and its two expansions.
I loved KOTOR.
Jade Empire was alright.
I loved Mass Effect.
Dragon Age Origins is currently my favourite game of all time.
I loved Mass Effect 2.
Awakenings was alright.
Dragon Age 2 was disappointing and flawed but I still found some enjoyment in there.

I don't see why anyone would write Bioware off after one game. As far as I'm concerned, based on the above list, there is more reason to believe they have the ability to reclaim former glory.

[Clertar]

When BG2 came out, all of the NPC companions (or half of them) were considered huge fails among the fan community: Imoen had been spoiled, Jaheira had become an annoying beetch, Aerie was a stupid whiner... Pretty much all of them were bad, other than Minsc, Edwin, and maybe Viconia xD The plot railroaded you tremendously, it trapped you in Athkatla, sent you to the Asylum, etc.

I can't believe all the comments trashing DA2 and talking about NWN as an amazing game: don't you remember at the time how it was considered a betrayal to "true" RP videogames? Don't you remember how much the NPCs svcked? But still, we all had a lot of fun with it and you remember it dearly. So it will be with DA2 in a decade, methinks. DA2, if I hadn't played it, I would be tempted to think it really was a failure, what with all the whining about it. Nothing new under the sun, I guess. We should get a little bit more perspective