452 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

FieryDove wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

FieryDove , well sorry, coffee must evolve to avoid stagnation, so we put cream in it. If you have problems with that, that means you can't handle changes and everything :3

Fine. I can't handle that change. I'll grow my own then!

Coffee and tea has remained popular because they are unchanging. (For the most part)
People like what they like. No PR/Marketing campaign will make it otherwise. (New Coke)

The funny thing is that in my country Cafe Lateé is growing more and more popular and a lot people prefer it over normal coffee. That is a sympton of the fact the the coffee marked is changing.

[Kastagir]

I don't think I've ever said I won't buy another Bioware game because DA2 was a disappointment. In fact, of the current offerings (DA, ME and the upcoming Star Wars MMO), only DA has held any interest for me. I never warmed to Mass Effect as it felt too much like I was watching a story play out rather than participating in it. I'm not interested in the upcoming Star Wars game for various reasons, but I was very excited by DA:O in the first few months after release (before support disappeared). Since this is the only franchise in the current Bioware lineup that interests me, and DA2 has decidedly soured my taste for it, you could say I have no interest in any of Bioware's games. I've shared my opinions on DA2 with many friends and successfully steered them away from it, though that's not to say they don't enjoy Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 from here 'til Tuesday. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and as these forums are not here to provide support of Bioware's products by Bioware personnel, sharing opinions is exactly the right thing to do here. Even if those opinions don't fit with your impression of the game.

Modifié par Kastagir, 06 septembre 2011 - 08:26 .

[rolson00]

i think they can be although i am still wary

[Mike_Neel]

Why not make both kinds of games.

On one hand you have the simple RPG that has easy to understand elements with character builds that don't differ much and any build can complete the game on most difficulties. This game could be hyped like most shooters are. It could have tons of guns and explosions and loud noise to entice new to the genre gamers while still tell a compelling story, though to be fair to new comers it would probably have to cut down on customization and the choices would be simplified into a simple Diplomatic, Neutral, and Aggressive responses. We could call this game Mass Effect.

Then on the other hand you have a more complex RPG that requires some forethought. This game could have more customization, wider and more detailed conversation trees. It might not have the same level of loud noise combat and action but the diversity to the game is more important. There would be more ways to accomplish a goal, even if it's a simple "Take this factions side over that factions side". You can have more varied and unique character builds at the cost of blocking out new comers who would just pick a wide variety of first level skills instead of building a proper skill tree that won't struggle later in the game. This might seem punishing to new comers but we can fix that by giving them limited access to a potion or something that will let them rebuild their characters stats and skills better after they've learned the mechanics and strategy of the game. We could call this game Dragon Age.

Using this system we can both introduce people to new genres and games without making them feel unwelcome because the game is too difficult. We wouldn't even have to simplify anything leaving old fans feeling as if they stripped out challenge and variety.

[Requiesta De Silencia]

If they hire the people they hired to make DAO and fire a few people they hired to make DA2...sure...if not...hell no

[Bryy_Miller]

Requiesta De Silencia wrote...

If they hire the people they hired to make DAO and fire a few people they hired to make DA2...sure...if not...hell no

You're assuming the DA team - if not game development in general - is freelance work.

Regardless of Ohlen and Knowles, the DA team is almost the same as it has always been. Don't try to make a stealth "Let's Fire Laidlaw" post. 

[jbrand2002uk]

Requiesta De Silencia wrote...

If they hire the people they hired to make DAO and fire a few people they hired to make DA2...sure...if not...hell no

Erm notto dampen your fire or anything but about 80% or more of the people who worked on DAO also worked on DA2 

In relation to other peoples posts about the fabled RPG/FPS divide i personally cant see how this "divide ever game to be because while the core mechanics of the genres are different their is one thing in common to both genre's whether your putting a slug through someone noggin Via a 1st person perspective as with most FPS or vivisecting someone's lower extremities with a sword in the 3rd person perspective you are still in essence playing a "role" and on that point since as a 1st person perspective gives you a better imersion into being the character who's role you have taken on since things like Field Of View or FOV become apparent as it would if that character was really you shouldnt all RPG's be done in the 1st person and not the 3rd person ? 

[Wolf]

I find it funny that the so called "true fans" (a notion which I hate btw) are the ones giving Bioware so much crap about DA:II. Yes, DA:II made a LOT of mistakes, but instead of "trusting" that the company who has delivered great games to them for the past 15 years will learn from its mistakes and improve upon what they already have, no. They say they have "lost their faith in Bioware" or "We should fire the whole team who made DA:II" when what they SHOULD be doing is giving feedback on what went wrong and informing the devs (right here people!) and working together so we can all have a better game down the line. Don't limit yourselves to saying what an enormous piece of crap DA:II was (I'm fan of both, equally (OH THE SHOCK!)) explain why you didn't like the systems in place and I can guarantee that we will have a better experience. Don't just cry about your scraped knee, DO something about it!

[seraphymon]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Requiesta De Silencia wrote...

If they hire the people they hired to make DAO and fire a few people they hired to make DA2...sure...if not...hell no

Erm notto dampen your fire or anything but about 80% or more of the people who worked on DAO also worked on DA2 

In relation to other peoples posts about the fabled RPG/FPS divide i personally cant see how this "divide ever game to be because while the core mechanics of the genres are different their is one thing in common to both genre's whether your putting a slug through someone noggin Via a 1st person perspective as with most FPS or vivisecting someone's lower extremities with a sword in the 3rd person perspective you are still in essence playing a "role" and on that point since as a 1st person perspective gives you a better imersion into being the character who's role you have taken on since things like Field Of View or FOV become apparent as it would if that character was really you shouldnt all RPG's be done in the 1st person and not the 3rd person ? 

Well i would say for one i disagree about 1st person perspective being more immersive. As just cause its a its a different point of view doesnt make it more. But depending on the RPG a 1st Person POV limits what you can see on the battle field. You cannot see behind you. And depending how the game mechanics are, doing a whole bunch of spins and jumping would cause dizzyness.

Now some RPGs do this such as elder scrolls, but they do it in a way that it doesnt hurt to, as well as other games have. But games such as this, having a 1st person POV  IMO would be a failure. There is a game called Kingdom Hearts 2, now this series is also from the same POV as DA and alot of other RPGS. However there is a toggle to go into 1st person. Good for a laugh or change of style, but ultimatley the POV doesnt help, and is pretty much unplayable.

[Jessabi]

Yes I do. There were some things that annoyed me about DA2, but for the most part I really enjoyed it. I'd even go as far to say that I prefer Hawke over my Warden, and hope Hawke's story is continued in DA3. And with the Legacy DLC, it seems Bioware took on board some of the criticsm - completely new enviroments and enemy, and a very engaging storyline (in my opinion). Can't wait for more DLC to be released. Personally, I think they'll do a good job with DA3.

[TheShadowWolf911]

not sure i trust them, they better make ALOT of changes from this game, and borrow ALOT from the first.

[dsl08002]

I dont think its a manner of trust to deliver a good game it is more a question of if we trust them to respect our opinions and create a game after what fans want?

[jbrand2002uk]

@seraphymon i certainly agree with you on the possibility of causing dizziness etc as i recall from getting motion sickness playing red steel on the Wii, was really just an offhand hand comment as to the strangeness of the apparent divide thats been mentioned by some between the FPS/RPG groups when essentially despite the obvious differences at the core they are all allowing the player to take on a "role"

Before i wonder OT too far though it does make me wonder how when Bioware has created a raft of really good RPG's either directly or indirectly how people can suddenly wonder if they can trust Bioware to make a good DA3 because given that Bioware created the DA franchise and know it best of all, its highly doubtful that any other Developer would be capable of making DA3 without making a complete and utter mess of it,

I'm also fairly confident that by the time DA3 gets released there will most likely be an alternative on the market for any DAO fans still not happy with the direction of DA3 which kind of makes me wonder what all the fuss is about , though i must state for the record that this is purely my own individual interpretation on the situation and i apoligise in advance if this causes any offence.

[TheConfidenceMan]

Not at all. The thing is, they don't even have the choice to make another DA like Origins. I like to lay the blame on Laidlaw as much as anyone, but realistically he's just a pawn being used by the Dr.s. It's not like he could just say, "ok, let's ditch everything we changed in DA2 and go back to Origin's style of game", he'd be out the door and replaced with someone else who will tow the company line.

Bioware, by being a branch of megapublisher EA, is no longer capable of making the sort of game their old fans want.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

i personally cant see how this "divide ever game to be because

...the core mechanics of the genres are different

Because.

Well i would say for one i disagree about 1st person perspective being more immersive

Yet many if not most "oldschool" RPG's are 1st person. And it does't have to do much with technical limitations, there were Darklands, Ultima, ect.. 1st person does't make RPG an FPS, it's adding dependancy on player's reflexes and physical skills which does.

Mike_Neel wrote...

Why not make both kinds of games.

Every DM kinda knows that making three straightforward quests is much easer than making one quest with three diffirent ways of solving it (and thinking of C&C for all the three afterwards).

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 07 septembre 2011 - 02:26 .

[Wolf]

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Not at all. The thing is, they don't even have the choice to make another DA like Origins. I like to lay the blame on Laidlaw as much as anyone, but realistically he's just a pawn being used by the Dr.s. It's not like he could just say, "ok, let's ditch everything we changed in DA2 and go back to Origin's style of game", he'd be out the door and replaced with someone else who will tow the company line.

Bioware, by being a branch of megapublisher EA, is no longer capable of making the sort of game their old fans want.

Then you will be happy to know that they have now become their own brand within EA. That basically means that they will have most of the freedom they had prior to joining EA.

[Mykel54]

Honestly? No. I assume trusting means that i am willing to take a risk by preordering or buying the game the first day, i´m not going that road again. I may give the dragon age series another chance but it will be on my terms: several months after the game is released, after decent reviews are out (not hype-building 1week after reviews) and playthroughts are on youtube, so i can make an informed decision. I don´t care to be spoiled anymore, as i care a lot more about not wasting my money.

[FieryDove]

Gaiden96 wrote...

Then you will be happy to know that they have now become their own brand within EA. That basically means that they will have most of the freedom they had prior to joining EA.

Then what happened with DA2? Time/resources was an issue.

Everyone tiptoes around the fact the EA bought Bioware. They call the shots. If they (EA) wants yearly sequels they (EA) will get them. Then we can lament like some of us did with Bullfrog etc.

[Pasquale1234]

seraphymon wrote...

Well i would say for one i disagree about 1st person perspective being more immersive. As just cause its a its a different point of view doesnt make it more. But depending on the RPG a 1st Person POV limits what you can see on the battle field. You cannot see behind you. And depending how the game mechanics are, doing a whole bunch of spins and jumping would cause dizzyness.

Now some RPGs do this such as elder scrolls, but they do it in a way that it doesnt hurt to, as well as other games have. But games such as this, having a 1st person POV  IMO would be a failure. There is a game called Kingdom Hearts 2, now this series is also from the same POV as DA and alot of other RPGS. However there is a toggle to go into 1st person. Good for a laugh or change of style, but ultimatley the POV doesnt help, and is pretty much unplayable.

I would definitely favor the first-person (or at least over the shoulder) POV in the dialogue types of scenes.  When I see the protag on the screen, it takes me out of the role-playing experience and into the "watching an interactive movie" experience.  It also presents less likelihood that the cinematics would cause conflict with the way the player feels his/her protag would react in the scene.  I do understand, however, that some players seem to prefer the "watching an interactive movie" experience.

During travel or battle, however, you really do need to see your protag avatar on the screen to keep a sense of location and what else is going on around you.  If (or when) we reach a point where we can play these games in 360 degree virtual reality, that will no longer be necessary.  But for now, as we are restricted to a finite screen, the only way to keep a sense of your immediate surroundings to see yourself placed there.

[billy the squid]

I trust that they will make a DA3. What that will entail precisely I am unsure, but after DA2 I remain apprehensive of what design approach it will take.

[Kilshrek]

FieryDove wrote...

Then what happened with DA2? Time/resources was an issue.

Everyone tiptoes around the fact the EA bought Bioware. They call the shots. If they (EA) wants yearly sequels they (EA) will get them. Then we can lament like some of us did with Bullfrog etc.

Oh Dungeon Keeper...

[Davasar]

Gaiden96 wrote...

TheConfidenceMan wrote...

Not at all. The thing is, they don't even have the choice to make another DA like Origins. I like to lay the blame on Laidlaw as much as anyone, but realistically he's just a pawn being used by the Dr.s. It's not like he could just say, "ok, let's ditch everything we changed in DA2 and go back to Origin's style of game", he'd be out the door and replaced with someone else who will tow the company line.

Bioware, by being a branch of megapublisher EA, is no longer capable of making the sort of game their old fans want.

Then you will be happy to know that they have now become their own brand within EA. That basically means that they will have most of the freedom they had prior to joining EA.

Gaiden...

that's a very naive point of view.

EA is calling the shots, plain and simple. 

With everything Bioware has been saying, the direction that DA2 took is the way they will continue to go:  Streamlining, dumbing down, less content, less choices, etc...

As was said above:  If EA tells them to put out a game every year, that's what they'll do, quality and what will actually sell be damned.

EA has a long track record of destroying both franchises and studios, and what they last did with DA2 doesnt not alleviate my suspicions, it only enforces them.

[Sundance31us]

Trust is irrelevant; Bioware (& EA) own the DA franchise and may do whatever they want with it. If they wanted to "recon" the DA universe into an epic battle between Smurfs and My Little Ponies they could do it.

[Atakuma]

Davasar wrote...


With everything Bioware has been saying, the direction that DA2 took is the way they will continue to go:  Streamlining, dumbing down, less content, less choices, etc...

Bioware has been stating the exact opposite of each of those things, so you clearly haven't been listening at all and are simply spouting off based on nothing but your own anger and cynicism.

[batlin]

No.

Todd Howard needs to kidnap David Gaider and acquire the rights to the Dragon Age franchise by challenging BioWare to a hockey game with the game rights and Gaider's freedom on the line. Then, Bethesda should get to work on Dragon Age 3 with Gaider writing for it soon after Skyrim is released.

Modifié par batlin, 07 septembre 2011 - 07:23 .