452 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

What Zanallen said.

And as a side note the 'one thing I didn't like' in my snarkastic post earlier was actually mirroring my feelings playing Awakening, not DA2. Had I let that one release permanently color my feelings on Bioware, I would have missed at least one game I really enjoyed.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Do I trust them enough to buy at launch or pre-order their games? No. But I have enough hope that I am willing to wait for info and reviews and see what they come up with.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

Imrahil_ wrote...

2) and they've apparently kept the same designers for DA III.  Can you imagine?  What real company would do this?  "Sure, you lost us 2.5 million customers & damaged our brand name but, hey, here, go for it on DA III - you derserve it!"  What competent company would turn over the third installment to the same people that lost them half their audience & took them from "the best RPG company bar none" to a laughingstock across the internet?

Majoirty of the dev team for DA was the same for DAO

*waits for someone to inevitably bring up Brent Knowles*

[AtreiyaN7]

I trust they'll do a better job at creating DA3 than the armchair developers on the forums who apparently have nothing better to do than whinge about not trusting them.

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*waits for someone to inevitably bring up Brent Knowles*

You mean the Martyr of DAO, the ubermench from whose loins the entirety of DAO was conceived two-fistedly?

That would be the one!


since that's usually what it boils down to. Brent Knowles is brought up and is misquoted and whatnot

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:29 .

[Persephone]

Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*waits for someone to inevitably bring up Brent Knowles*

You mean the Martyr of DAO, the ubermench from whose loins the entirety of DAO was conceived two-fistedly?

Images....in my head........:lol:

[Persephone]

Mr.House wrote...

Imrahil_ wrote...

2) and they've apparently kept the same designers for DA III.  Can you imagine?  What real company would do this?  "Sure, you lost us 2.5 million customers & damaged our brand name but, hey, here, go for it on DA III - you derserve it!"  What competent company would turn over the third installment to the same people that lost them half their audience & took them from "the best RPG company bar none" to a laughingstock across the internet?

Majoirty of the dev team for DA was the same for DAO

Never mind that the "lost 2.5 million customers" comment is both inaccurate and completely off the mark when it comes to Sales. (The difference in time: DAO has been out for much longer. This alone renders that remark obsolete)

[Yuqi]

Hmmn, I most likely wont pre-order. However, I still belive in the DAO team. I liked hawke,the main thing that irritated me was map re-use.

[TheBlackBaron]

As Reagan said, "trust, but verify"...which in this case means waiting on reviews, instead of pre-ordering immediately or declaring that Bioware has been RUINED FOREVER and I'm never buying any of their games ever.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:38 .

[Imrahil_]

Zanallen wrote...
1. Bioware has not been blaming their fans. That is the product of hate-filled vitriol and irate "fans" twisting their words.

I know you didn't just join today, so I also know you're aware of the "can't handle change" interviews.  It's documented.  They said it.  There's no denying it.  Feel free to post the quotes in question if you feel they've been taken out of context.  I'll bet they'll only support my point.

2. DA2 is not an objectively bad game. There are plenty of people who enjoyed the game. How can they say they released a "god-awful terrible game" when that isn't the objective truth or even the general consensus?

It sold less than half as many copies as DA:O, & that percentage is only getting worse as DA:O sells more than DA2 to this day. And if you look at the polls on the Registered Owners site, the people who bought DA2 are, at best, split 50-50 on whether they like the DA2 features as opposed to the DA:O features.

Voiced?  Slightly less than half favor it.  Iconic companions?  Nearly as many Strongly Oppose alone as Strongly Favor+Favor.  If you compare Strongly Oppose+Oppose to Strongly Favor+Favor, it's no contest - oppose wins handily.

And that's just people who are Registered Owners of DA2.  DA2 is losing among poeple who bought DA2!  Just imagine what the percentages would be if you included all the people who bought DA:O but didn't buy DA2.

It's objectively a failure.  It sold less than half & registered owners of DA2 slightly prefer DA:O features vs. DA2 features.  That's a failure.  Objectively.

3. Remember that DA2 was made by the same people who made DA:O.

Not really.  It's been well documented that at least one of the main contributors to DA:O left when told what DA2 was going to be.  One Lead Designer created a game that exceeded expectations, brought in gamers who didn't normally play RPG's, won awards, & was praised by critics & fans alike.  He left. The new Lead Designer oversaw a game that cut their audience in half, damaged Biowares rep, & made them a punchline.  Oh, and is somehow in charge of DAIII,

Modifié par Imrahil_, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:38 .

[csfteeeer]

I Want to, but i can't.

But it doesn't have anything to do with Trust, i know nothing about DA3, and i until i see it, my expectations will be the same: it will suck just as bad as DA2(though i do have my hopes, and i try to give Feedback, but i'm not one to be hyped, specially after DA2).

That said, Unless early reactions to the game from both Critics and Fans declare it "The SECOND COMING OF CHRIST", i won't be pre-ordering DA3 nor will i buy it on Day 1.

Fool me once, Shame on You.
Fool me Twice, Shame on Me.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:46 .

[csfteeeer]

Double Post

[Imrahil_]

Persephone wrote...
Never mind that the "lost 2.5 million customers" comment is both inaccurate and completely off the mark when it comes to Sales. (The difference in time: DAO has been out for much longer. This alone renders that remark obsolete)

You are correct, of course.  That was only up to today.  As DA:O continues to outsell DA2, that number will get wider.  Good point.

[Persephone]

And here we go again.

"DAII was a failure and Bioware sold out and......"

More repetetive than any DAII enviroment. And more annoying too.

[Persephone]

Imrahil_ wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Never mind that the "lost 2.5 million customers" comment is both inaccurate and completely off the mark when it comes to Sales. (The difference in time: DAO has been out for much longer. This alone renders that remark obsolete)

You are correct, of course.  That was only up to today.  As DA:O continues to outsell DA2, that number will get wider.  Good point.

Not my point at all.

Does it? Not here. Here they aren't even selling DAO much anymore (Except at huge stores where you can get it for 7.99 Euros). DAII is still on the shelves though, saw it last night when I bought Deus Ex. And there were only 2 copies left. And 10 copies of the EA classics DAO release were lying around untouched.

Modifié par Persephone, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:47 .

[Iakus]

I'm thinking of Gandalf's line from The Two Towers:  "The burned hand teaches best. After that advice about fire goes to the heart."

Bioware got it's hand scorched.  I think they'll be more careful next time around.

[Zanallen]

Imrahil_ wrote...

I know you didn't just join today, so I also know you're aware of the "can't handle change" interviews.  It's documented.  They said it.  There's no denying it.  Feel free to post the quotes in question if you feel they've been taken out of context.  I'll bet they'll only support my point.

I have read them. And I mostly agree with what the developers have been saying. Some people wanted more Origins. The polls that you mention below are proof of that. People who prefer a silent protagonist and people who prefer a more DA:O style approach to companion customization obviously want more Origins. How is it "blaming the fans" when they are telling the truth? Some people wanted more Origins. That is a fact.

It sold less than half as many copies as DA:O, & that percentage is only getting worse as DA:O sells more than DA2 to this day. And if you look at the polls on the Registered Owners site, the people who bought DA2 are, at best, split 50-50 on whether they like the DA2 features as opposed to the DA:O features.

Voiced?  Slightly less than half favor it.  Iconic companions?  Nearly as many Strongly Oppose alone as Strongly Favor+Favor.  If you compare Strongly Oppose+Oppose to Strongly Favor+Favor, it's no contest - oppose wins handily.

And that's just people who are Registered Owners of DA2.  DA2 is losing among poeple who bought DA2!  Just imagine what the percentages would be if you included all the people who bought DA:O but didn't buy DA2.

It's objectively a failure.  It sold less than half & registered owners of DA2 slightly prefer DA:O features vs. DA2 features.  That's a failure.  Objectively.

No it isn't. I'm willing to bet that, despite sales, DA2 has been more profitable for Bioware than DA:O. And the opinions of people on the forums about specific features does not equate to DA2 being a failure. Especially when those people make up less than 1000 people and it is an established observation that people who disliked a product are far more likely to complain than someone who liked it is to praise.

Not really.  It's been well documented that at least one of the main
contributors to DA:O left when told what DA2 was going to be.  One Lead
Designer created a game that exceeded expectations, brought in gamers
who didn't normally play RPG's, won awards, & was praised by critics
& fans alike.  He left. The new Lead Designer oversaw a game that
cut their audience in half, damaged Biowares rep, & made them a
punchline.  Oh, and is somehow in charge of DAIII,

So, your position is that Brent Knowles is the god of Dragon Age and that all that is great came from his loins? Despite the fact that he was one of three Lead Designers who worked on the project and that LD is far from the sole contributor to a project.

[Persephone]

csfteeeer wrote...

That said, Unless early reactions to the game from both Critics and Fans declare it "The SECOND COMING OF CHRIST", i won't be pre-ordering DA3 nor will i buy it on Day 1.

Well, there is such a thing as expecting too much. No game has ever achieved such a reaction. And no, DAO and TW2 didn't either.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Persephone wrote...

Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*waits for someone to inevitably bring up Brent Knowles*

You mean the Martyr of DAO, the ubermench from whose loins the entirety of DAO was conceived two-fistedly?

Images....in my head........:lol:

[Cutlass Jack]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[csfteeeer]

Persephone wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

That said, Unless early reactions to the game from both Critics and Fans declare it "The SECOND COMING OF CHRIST", i won't be pre-ordering DA3 nor will i buy it on Day 1.

Well, there is such a thing as expecting too much. No game has ever achieved such a reaction. And no, DAO and TW2 didn't either.

I think i should improve my Hyperboles, i've been misinterpreted a couple of times now when i thought the jokes were obvious.

i was joking with the Christ thing.
i MAY pre order DA3 or buy it Day 1 if the early reactions are Extremely positive.

[TEWR]

mrcrusty wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*waits for someone to inevitably bring up Brent Knowles*

You mean the Martyr of DAO, the ubermench from whose loins the entirety of DAO was conceived two-fistedly?

Images....in my head........:lol:

That.... made me lol so much.

[Anomaly-]

Persephone wrote...

And here we go again.

"DAII was a failure and Bioware sold out and......"

More repetetive than any DAII enviroment. And more annoying too.

I agree, it is annoying. The thing is, it wouldn't have to be repeated so much if people would stop turning a blind eye to the facts.

I really don't know how anyone can see DA2 as anything but, at the very least, a significant step down in quality from it's predecessor. Even if you like the game, there is no denying that.

Persephone wrote...
Not my point at all.

Does it? Not
here. Here they aren't even selling DAO much anymore (Except at huge
stores where you can get it for 7.99 Euros). DAII is still on the
shelves though, saw it last night when I bought Deus Ex. And there were
only 2 copies left. And 10 copies of the EA classics DAO release were
lying around untouched.

So it's easier to get your hands on a copy of DA2 than it is a copy of Origins, and yet Origins is still outselling it? A bit confused here, since you say they aren't selling it anymore, then go on to say they have many copies in stock. Either way doesn't support your point much. If they don't sell it much anymore, and it still outsells DA2, what does that tell you? If, rather, they still order them in high stock, what does that tell you? Regardless, the sales figures speak for themselves. When you consider the fact that a significant number of those sales figures for DA2 were pre-orders based on Origins (myself included), it really becomes impossible to deny.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 03 septembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[Imrahil_]

Persephone wrote...
Does it? Not here. Here they aren't even selling DAO much anymore (Except at huge stores where you can get it for 7.99 Euros). DAII is still on the shelves though, saw it last night when I bought Deus Ex. And there were only 2 copies left. And 10 copies of the EA classics DAO release were lying around untouched.

I'm confused.  Are you saying that your observation of the 10 copies of a 3-year old game that they aren't selling much anymore that are on the shelves compares to the 2 copies of DA2 that they aren't selling that are on the shelves that they are selling... is 1) coherent & 2) means something?

Your information was impressively baffling.  If you'd care to re-phrase it in a way that makes sense, I'll attempt to address your local store's copies of each game & how it's irrelevant to total sales.  I'll probably start by pointing out that there is more than one store in the world, but I'll wait til you clarify your point to actually say that.

Modifié par Imrahil_, 03 septembre 2011 - 06:08 .