230 réponses à ce sujet

[armass]

111987 wrote...

EDIT: Double post

Is it?

[bobdooly]

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...
It doesn't take a great and powerful nation to make those 3 things. They could be all pirates and slavers and have just bought the dreadnought, used slaves for arms manurfacturing, and have trained commandos.

While I do agree that the batarians have a military, I just think it's a piece of absolute crap. The need pirates and slavers to fight their battles for them. About the Council intervening? The Council didn't help the Alliance militarily when it was attacked by the geth, they made Shepard a spectre. Why would they help the Alliance fight the Batarians when it's a "human problem"?

No offense but are you stupid? Buying a Dreadnought is not possible. Building kilometer long warships take the industry of empires.They don't need pirates and slavers to fight for them it was just more preferable to losing Batarian lives. Why would they use their military when hiring aliens works just fine? Their purpose was to scare humanity not fight them.

It's not hard to make dreadnoughts. Sure, it'd be a tad difficult, the only thing keeping smaller nations' count down is the treaty.

A lot of Batarians are slavers/pirates,and vise versa, so that arguement is invalid.

They wouldn't use theirs because it SUCKS. Which is what I just said.

EDIT: Also, I didn't say the dreadnought WAS bought, only that it was possible for it to have been.

No spacefaring race can survive without a military period. By saying the Batarians only have one dreadnought and use pirates and slavers as most of their military is just...wrong.

That's the point. The slavers 'n' such ARE their military. Theoretically. I'm saying they official military has a dreadnought, but the military as a whole is crap. So they use proxy armies.

EDIT: wow the quote system glitched...

Modifié par bobdooly, 03 septembre 2011 - 04:44 .

[1136342t54_]

bobdooly wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

It's not hard to make dreadnoughts. Sure, it'd be a tad difficult, the only thing keeping smaller nations' count down is the treaty.

A lot of Batarians are slavers/pirates,and vise versa, so that arguement is invalid.

They wouldn't use theirs because it SUCKS. Which is what I just said.

That's like saying its easy to make a large nuclear powered Aircraft carrier.

Dreadnoughts are determined by size in the ME universe. Anything over 800 meters. You could duct tape a couple cruisers together and have a dreadnought. It'd be crap, but there you go.

WTF? That makes utterley no sense and I don't think you realize how much money, time and resources it takes to build military vehicles. Hell the Turians took like 2 years to make a Dreadnought and they are wealthy.

[1136342t54_]

[quote]bobdooly wrote...

[quote]1136342t54 wrote...

[quote]bobdooly wrote...

[quote]bobdooly wrote...

[quote]1136342t54 wrote...

[quote]bobdooly wrote...
It doesn't take a great and powerful nation to make those 3 things. They could be all pirates and slavers and have just bought the dreadnought, used slaves for arms manurfacturing, and have trained commandos.

While I do agree that the batarians have a military, I just think it's a piece of absolute crap. The need pirates and slavers to fight their battles for them. About the Council intervening? The Council didn't help the Alliance militarily when it was attacked by the geth, they made Shepard a spectre. Why would they help the Alliance fight the Batarians when it's a "human problem"?

[/quote]

No offense but are you stupid? Buying a Dreadnought is not possible. Building kilometer long warships take the industry of empires.They don't need pirates and slavers to fight for them it was just more preferable to losing Batarian lives. Why would they use their military when hiring aliens works just fine? Their purpose was to scare humanity not fight them.

[/quote]

It's not hard to make dreadnoughts. Sure, it'd be a tad difficult, the only thing keeping smaller nations' count down is the treaty.

A lot of Batarians are slavers/pirates,and vise versa, so that arguement is invalid.

They wouldn't use theirs because it SUCKS. Which is what I just said.

EDIT: Also, I didn't say the dreadnought WAS bought, only that it was possible for it to have been.

[/quote]

No spacefaring race can survive without a military period. By saying the Batarians only have one dreadnought and use pirates and slavers as most of their military is just...wrong.

[/quote]

That's the point. The slavers 'n' such ARE their military. Theoretically. I'm saying they official military has a dreadnought, but the military as a whole is crap. So they use proxy armies.

[/quote]

I'm getting off for the night but link me to where it says they only have one dreadnought and their military is crap.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 03 septembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[bobdooly]

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

It's not hard to make dreadnoughts. Sure, it'd be a tad difficult, the only thing keeping smaller nations' count down is the treaty.

A lot of Batarians are slavers/pirates,and vise versa, so that arguement is invalid.

They wouldn't use theirs because it SUCKS. Which is what I just said.

That's like saying its easy to make a large nuclear powered Aircraft carrier.

Dreadnoughts are determined by size in the ME universe. Anything over 800 meters. You could duct tape a couple cruisers together and have a dreadnought. It'd be crap, but there you go.

WTF? That makes utterley no sense and I don't think you realize how much money, time and resources it takes to build military vehicles. Hell the Turians took like 2 years to make a Dreadnought and they are wealthy.

And you got your facts from...? If you read my post, you'd actually have a relevant answer.

[bobdooly]

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...
It doesn't take a great and powerful nation to make those 3 things. They could be all pirates and slavers and have just bought the dreadnought, used slaves for arms manurfacturing, and have trained commandos.

While I do agree that the batarians have a military, I just think it's a piece of absolute crap. The need pirates and slavers to fight their battles for them. About the Council intervening? The Council didn't help the Alliance militarily when it was attacked by the geth, they made Shepard a spectre. Why would they help the Alliance fight the Batarians when it's a "human problem"?

No offense but are you stupid? Buying a Dreadnought is not possible. Building kilometer long warships take the industry of empires.They don't need pirates and slavers to fight for them it was just more preferable to losing Batarian lives. Why would they use their military when hiring aliens works just fine? Their purpose was to scare humanity not fight them.

It's not hard to make dreadnoughts. Sure, it'd be a tad difficult, the only thing keeping smaller nations' count down is the treaty.

A lot of Batarians are slavers/pirates,and vise versa, so that arguement is invalid.

They wouldn't use theirs because it SUCKS. Which is what I just said.

EDIT: Also, I didn't say the dreadnought WAS bought, only that it was possible for it to have been.

No spacefaring race can survive without a military period. By saying the Batarians only have one dreadnought and use pirates and slavers as most of their military is just...wrong.

That's the point. The slavers 'n' such ARE their military. Theoretically. I'm saying they official military has a dreadnought, but the military as a whole is crap. So they use proxy armies.

I'm getting off for the night but link me to where it says they only have one dreadnought and their military is crap.

The wiki says there is only one dreadnought. Balak says their military is weaker than the Alliance's. Them using proxy armies is proof to me that the military is incapable.

[1136342t54_]

bobdooly wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

It's not hard to make dreadnoughts. Sure, it'd be a tad difficult, the only thing keeping smaller nations' count down is the treaty.

A lot of Batarians are slavers/pirates,and vise versa, so that arguement is invalid.

They wouldn't use theirs because it SUCKS. Which is what I just said.

That's like saying its easy to make a large nuclear powered Aircraft carrier.

Dreadnoughts are determined by size in the ME universe. Anything over 800 meters. You could duct tape a couple cruisers together and have a dreadnought. It'd be crap, but there you go.

WTF? That makes utterley no sense and I don't think you realize how much money, time and resources it takes to build military vehicles. Hell the Turians took like 2 years to make a Dreadnought and they are wealthy.

And you got your facts from...? If you read my post, you'd actually have a relevant answer.

CDN,Wiki,Codex and in game news stations.

[1136342t54_]

bobdooly wrote...
The wiki says there is only one dreadnought. Balak says their military is weaker than the Alliance's. Them using proxy armies is proof to me that the military is incapable.

Read it again. It says the batarians are known to operate 1 dreadnought and it is not known if they have more.

[Illusive1]

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...
The wiki says there is only one dreadnought. Balak says their military is weaker than the Alliance's. Them using proxy armies is proof to me that the military is incapable.

Read it again. It says the batarians are known to operate 1 dreadnought and it is not known if they have more.

So, why does it matter if they have 1 or 20 of these broken ass ships? It was made by their crooked hands so however few they have still doesnt matter. The ships are ****s.

[AClockworkMelon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Illusive1 wrote...

The Batarians always get their weak **** swatted to the tenth row. Its a simple rule of evolution. Why do humans roll up to earth later than animals but still regulate the whole globe? Simple, we are smarter. In conclusions, Batarians need to take their weak **** elsewhere in the galaxy.

But they did,for the most part ,that's why they aren't seen in Citadel space

They remain outside of Citadel space because they're slaving douchebags. 

[Illusive1]

AClockworkMelon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Illusive1 wrote...

The Batarians always get their weak **** swatted to the tenth row. Its a simple rule of evolution. Why do humans roll up to earth later than animals but still regulate the whole globe? Simple, we are smarter. In conclusions, Batarians need to take their weak **** elsewhere in the galaxy.

But they did,for the most part ,that's why they aren't seen in Citadel space

They remain outside of Citadel space because they're slaving douchebags. 

Exactly. Batarians are useless.

[bobdooly]

Again, size isn't everything. the dreadnought could be crap. it could be a reaper's worst nightmare. But if it was so good, then the military would be good enough where they could attack the Alliance directly, which they can't. Thus, proxy armies (You know, the argument you keep avoiding). And before you think "Council intervention", I'm going to say that they have a habit of not helping humans when it's a "human" problem. They didn't help with the geth (militarily) until they were in the line of fire, and didn't lift a finger in ME2. Why would they with batarians, who only humans seem to have a problem with?

[Illusive1]

bobdooly wrote...

Again, size isn't everything. the dreadnought could be crap. it could be a reaper's worst nightmare. But if it was so good, then the military would be good enough where they could attack the Alliance directly, which they can't. Thus, proxy armies (You know, the argument you keep avoiding). And before you think "Council intervention", I'm going to say that they have a habit of not helping humans when it's a "human" problem. They didn't help with the geth (militarily) until they were in the line of fire, and didn't lift a finger in ME2. Why would they with batarians, who only humans seem to have a problem with?

Well, I dont know about you guys but in my Mass Effect playthroughs the Humans run all the ****. But I know what you are saying. I think that Batarians are a non-equation and need not be discussed. They are of limited utility.

[111987]

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDIT: Double post

Is it?

My reply to you is one post above the one I edited.

[armass]

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDIT: Double post

Is it?

My reply to you is one post above the one I edited.

I know, I read it. And I still ask Is it that different? If you go and take Khar'shan, they begin guerilla war to get it back, they dont want you there, they want you out, like the vietnamese. They know their planet, you are on an alien ground. They will make the occupation to cost you, until it's no longer wise to stay there. If you go the maximum brutal way,  They will not surrender, they will fight you to the death until you are gone.

And even if you leave, you will likely have a defeated people screaming for your blood and vengeance.

Modifié par armass, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[bobdooly]

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDIT: Double post

Is it?

My reply to you is one post above the one I edited.

I know, I read it. And I still ask Is it that different? If you go and take Khar'shan, they begin guerilla war to get it back, they dont want you there, they want you out, like the vietnamese. They know their planet, you are on an alien ground. They will not surrender, they will fight you to the death until you are gone.

So blockade the planet, and they can't get you. Problem solved.

[111987]

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDIT: Double post

Is it?

My reply to you is one post above the one I edited.

I know, I read it. And I still ask Is it that different? If you go and take Khar'shan, they begin guerilla war to get it back, they dont want you there, they want you out, like the vietnamese. They know their planet, you are on an alien ground. They will not surrender, they will fight you to the death.

It's different, because the Batarians can't hide like the Vietnamese could. You assume everyone is dangerous.

Besides, I thought in this hypothetical situation, the Batarians were attacking the SA? Why would the Alliance bother trying to conquer their homeworld? If they destroy their fleet in standard combat, they don't need to.

If the scenario is one where the Humans are occupying Khar'shan, then yes, the situaton changes radically.

[Balek-Vriege]

Remember that the Batarians basically control the Terminus sytems, but suffer from a number of problems which may explain why they're not more powerful:

1. They're a Galactic Pariah and gain no benefits from the wealth and prosperity of Council space.
2. Terminus Systems are mostly lawless and I doubt the Batarians collect many taxes etc.
3. Their style of governance/society doesn't support economic prosperity. While free labour, slaves seem to kill economies and progress.
4. So far it appears they haven't benefited from Prothean Technology directly.

Humans benefited from total isolation allowing technological innovation and power build up without alien interference (until the opening of the Relay and First Contact with the Turians). After giving the Turians a black eye and receiving Council backing, there's no way the Batarians could resist Human colonization of the Skyllian Verge.

Humans=Sleeping Giant
Batarians= Degenerate Empire

[armass]

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDIT: Double post

Is it?

My reply to you is one post above the one I edited.

I know, I read it. And I still ask Is it that different? If you go and take Khar'shan, they begin guerilla war to get it back, they dont want you there, they want you out, like the vietnamese. They know their planet, you are on an alien ground. They will not surrender, they will fight you to the death.

It's different, because the Batarians can't hide like the Vietnamese could. You assume everyone is dangerous.

Besides, I thought in this hypothetical situation, the Batarians were attacking the SA? Why would the Alliance bother trying to conquer their homeworld? If they destroy their fleet in standard combat, they don't need to.

If the scenario is one where the Humans are occupying Khar'shan, then yes, the situaton changes radically.

If the batarians were attacking they would likely try to nuke many garden worlds the humans have, i mean they have already tried this with terra nova. Losing garden worlds is devastating, since they will not recover. It's no wonder alliance tries to avoid war with them.

Besides they might try to coax other terminus powers and pirates into war also, like i said earlier. Worst case scenario, everyone intervenes and it leads to a galactic war.

OFC since the reapers are here now this will likely not happen in any form.

Modifié par armass, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:15 .

[111987]

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDIT: Double post

Is it?

My reply to you is one post above the one I edited.

I know, I read it. And I still ask Is it that different? If you go and take Khar'shan, they begin guerilla war to get it back, they dont want you there, they want you out, like the vietnamese. They know their planet, you are on an alien ground. They will not surrender, they will fight you to the death.

It's different, because the Batarians can't hide like the Vietnamese could. You assume everyone is dangerous.

Besides, I thought in this hypothetical situation, the Batarians were attacking the SA? Why would the Alliance bother trying to conquer their homeworld? If they destroy their fleet in standard combat, they don't need to.

If the scenario is one where the Humans are occupying Khar'shan, then yes, the situaton changes radically.

If the batarians were attacking they would likely try to nuke many garden worlds the humans have, i mean they have already tried this with terra nova. Losing garden worlds is devastating, since they will not recover. It's no wonder alliance tries to avoid war with them.

Besides they might try to coax other terminus powers and pirates into war also, like i said earlier. Worst case scenario, everyone intervenes and it leads to a galactic war.

OFC since the reapers are here now this will likely not happen in any form.

The minute the Batarians use a WMD on a garden world, the Council assembles and smacks them own like the hand of God.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Remember that the Batarians basically control the Terminus sytems, but suffer from a number of problems which may explain why they're not more powerful:

1. They're a Galactic Pariah and gain no benefits from the wealth and prosperity of Council space.
2. Terminus Systems are mostly lawless and I doubt the Batarians collect many taxes etc.
3. Their style of governance/society doesn't support economic prosperity. While free labour, slaves seem to kill economies and progress.
4. So far it appears they haven't benefited from Prothean Technology directly.

Humans benefited from total isolation allowing technological innovation and power build up without alien interference (until the opening of the Relay and First Contact with the Turians). After giving the Turians a black eye and receiving Council backing, there's no way the Batarians could resist Human colonization of the Skyllian Verge.

Humans=Sleeping Giant
Batarians= Degenerate Empire

Well said, as always.

[armass]

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

armass wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDIT: Double post

Is it?

My reply to you is one post above the one I edited.

I know, I read it. And I still ask Is it that different? If you go and take Khar'shan, they begin guerilla war to get it back, they dont want you there, they want you out, like the vietnamese. They know their planet, you are on an alien ground. They will not surrender, they will fight you to the death.

It's different, because the Batarians can't hide like the Vietnamese could. You assume everyone is dangerous.

Besides, I thought in this hypothetical situation, the Batarians were attacking the SA? Why would the Alliance bother trying to conquer their homeworld? If they destroy their fleet in standard combat, they don't need to.

If the scenario is one where the Humans are occupying Khar'shan, then yes, the situaton changes radically.

If the batarians were attacking they would likely try to nuke many garden worlds the humans have, i mean they have already tried this with terra nova. Losing garden worlds is devastating, since they will not recover. It's no wonder alliance tries to avoid war with them.

Besides they might try to coax other terminus powers and pirates into war also, like i said earlier. Worst case scenario, everyone intervenes and it leads to a galactic war.

OFC since the reapers are here now this will likely not happen in any form.

The minute the Batarians use a WMD on a garden world, the Council assembles and smacks them own like the hand of God.

Probably true but them attacking a powerful  terminus race like batarians would probably drive other terminus species into war as well. Like I said worst case scenario: full scale galactic war.

[111987]

That is possible. But the Terminus factions wouldn't be any more eager to face the Council races than the Council would be to face them. Sort of like the Cold War.

[armass]

I remember Hackett saying that other species would be afraid to take sides in human-batarian conflict, if it leads to war over the batarian solar systems explosion for this very reason. I think he undestands the risks of galactic war well. It's balancing on an edge of a blade.

Modifié par armass, 03 septembre 2011 - 06:01 .

[mauro2222]

The Hegemony... they actually use money?