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[Bad King]

Zeta030 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Zeta030 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Zeta030 wrote...

You are pulling this out of your head, kid. They "probably" have this and they "probably" have that. I have a million dollars and several private jets.
Balak did say that the batarian military is weak in comparison to the Alliance. They are known to have one dreadnought, and maybe other ships that are very ineffective. The training program can be as brutal as all hell, that doesn't mean the military is "stronger than one might think"

It does because you came on this thread originally stating that the batarian military consisted of pirates and raiders.

"I aint yo good sir, nigguh. And of course I read your posts. Saying the
Batarian military never fought the Alliance. The Batarians are slavers
and pirates, so I don't know what military you are talking about. The
Batarians in Citadel Space, the ones that fought the humans, either
fought themselves or used other criminals to attack. The only force of
batarians that have fought are the slavers, good nigguh sir"

And I have evidence to prove that:

1. The batarians have at least 1 dreadnought.
2. The government owns an effective arms manufacturer.
3. There is a batarian special forces unit.

So these aren't just pirates and slavers we're dealing with.

hahaha You must be talking about some other batarians, because in the Mass Effect that the people on this site play, we don't deal with the Batarian's military. We fight the slavers that are out in our space posing a threat and acting hostile

Indeed. And that's because the hegemony's military did not become directly involved in the Skyllian Blitz.

I like how you think that having at least one dreadnought, an arms manufacturer, and a special forces unit automatically makes someone a galactic power. Italy has all those things, but if they went to war with Europe, Hell just Germany or UK, they would get stomped. The things listed are prerequisites, in the same line as having fingers is required to writing a novel.

You obviously didn't look at my original argument. I disproved Zeta's notion that the batarian military consists only of pirates and slavers.

You didnt disprove me, what are you talking about? I said that the Batarians that humans interact with the Batarain criminals and slavers that have left Batarian space. They are separate. Heh, once again pulling random crap out of the air. As illusive1 said, your name fits the comments that you make - wrong interpretations, bad judgments

Orly? Unfortunately your earlier comments have come back to haunt you-

"The Batarians are slavers and pirates, so I don't know what military you are talking about"

And I listed that they do indeed have a military. And so far none of the facts that I have posted have been disproven.

Also Bad King is an ironic name, in reality I am a very good King who is kind to all his subjects.

Also, we get some history about batarian military aggression from planet descriptions in ME2:

"The Citadel Council made first contact with the batarians in approximately 200 BCE, and granted the batarians an embassy on the Citadel a century later. Despite being welcomed into the galactic community, batarian aggression provoked several crises in galactic relations over the years. Sometime around 1785 CE, a batarian fleet bombarded the salarian colony world of Mannovai; in 1913, the Batarian Hegemony annexed the independent asari colony of Esan; and in 2115, Citadel forces skirmished with batarian forces on the planet Enael." -- Mass Effect Wiki

Modifié par Bad King, 03 septembre 2011 - 04:18 .

[1136342t54_]

Illusive1 wrote...

So, why does it matter if they have 1 or 20 of these broken ass ships? It was made by their crooked hands so however few they have still doesnt matter. The ships are ****s.

A Dreadnought is known to the biggest baddest ship in space. If you face Dreadnought you fight it with another Dreadnought or a **** load of ships basically. Even a crap one could tear up multiple cruisers before going down. Also provide evidence that its crap. The codex nor even the wiki mentions anything about Batarian equipment being so low grade that it would break down. The only truly modern Dreadnought the SA has is the Kilimanjaro and that is because they built it recently. Batarians lack the numbers in their military not quality.

[1136342t54_]

111987 wrote...
The minute the Batarians use a WMD on a garden world, the Council assembles and smacks them own like the hand of God.

If it was wastefule for the Council to invade the Terminus systems at full peace time power then after the fight Sovereign it would be worse. There is a reason why no one invades the Terminus Systems.

They know that every other power their will fight you.

[1136342t54_]

bobdooly wrote...

Again, size isn't everything. the dreadnought could be crap. it could be a reaper's worst nightmare. But if it was so good, then the military would be good enough where they could attack the Alliance directly, which they can't. Thus, proxy armies (You know, the argument you keep avoiding). And before you think "Council intervention", I'm going to say that they have a habit of not helping humans when it's a "human" problem. They didn't help with the geth (militarily) until they were in the line of fire, and didn't lift a finger in ME2. Why would they with batarians, who only humans seem to have a problem with?

No Dreadnought is a Reapers worse nightmare. Also like I said before a Dreadnought could be crap and still butt rape many ships. Its Kinetic barrier's and mass accelerator will still be much more powerful than a vessel of a lower class. So now tell me where you are getting the knowledge that Batarian tech is like some old Soviet bastardized version of normal tech when the batarians have been a space faring species for over a millenia.

That's almost like saying the Alliance would attack the Batarians directly because the military is so good. No power no matter how strong (Except for Krogan and maybe Turians) want to fight a war in ME. It wastes to much resources and no one other than the Krogan and Turians have the commitment for it. If the Systems Alliance attack the Batarians they will win but they will have to destroy their military and occupy planets to make sure the Batarians don't attempt to come back and attack the Alliance with anti matter bombs and such. Then they will have to make sure the other Terminus powers don't get involved. That type of war would be too freaking long.

[bobdooly]

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

Again, size isn't everything. the dreadnought could be crap. it could be a reaper's worst nightmare. But if it was so good, then the military would be good enough where they could attack the Alliance directly, which they can't. Thus, proxy armies (You know, the argument you keep avoiding). And before you think "Council intervention", I'm going to say that they have a habit of not helping humans when it's a "human" problem. They didn't help with the geth (militarily) until they were in the line of fire, and didn't lift a finger in ME2. Why would they with batarians, who only humans seem to have a problem with?

No Dreadnought is a Reapers worse nightmare. Also like I said before a Dreadnought could be crap and still butt rape many ships. Its Kinetic barrier's and mass accelerator will still be much more powerful than a vessel of a lower class. So now tell me where you are getting the knowledge that Batarian tech is like some old Soviet bastardized version of normal tech when the batarians have been a space faring species for over a millenia.

That's almost like saying the Alliance would attack the Batarians directly because the military is so good. No power no matter how strong (Except for Krogan and maybe Turians) want to fight a war in ME. It wastes to much resources and no one other than the Krogan and Turians have the commitment for it. If the Systems Alliance attack the Batarians they will win but they will have to destroy their military and occupy planets to make sure the Batarians don't attempt to come back and attack the Alliance with anti matter bombs and such. Then they will have to make sure the other Terminus powers don't get involved. That type of war would be too freaking long.

You didn't get the purpousely extreme examples given in my first sentence. I said that the dreadnought could be any range of badass, but it is obviously on the lower end of the spectrum because the batarian military has to use proxy armies to do anything.

The Alliance wouldn't attack the batairans because they're not a major threat. If a bee stung you, would you track it down to its hive and wipe out every single bee in a 20 mile radius? It would be better for the batarians to attack the Alliance directly because a war would be more likely and it would ruin the Alliance for the reasons you stated. Except the pirates are more capable than the official military, it seems.

[1136342t54_]

bobdooly wrote...
You didn't get the purpousely extreme examples given in my first sentence. I said that the dreadnought could be any range of badass, but it is obviously on the lower end of the spectrum because the batarian military has to use proxy armies to do anything.

Tell me when the Batarians have used proxy armies more than once. You still haven't given proof of any of your assertians at all and any proof you had I quickly disproved it using the same source.  

The Alliance wouldn't attack the batairans because they're not a major threat. If a bee stung you, would you track it down to its hive and wipe out every single bee in a 20 mile radius? It would be better for the batarians to attack the Alliance directly because a war would be more likely and it would ruin the Alliance for the reasons you stated. Except the pirates are more capable than the official military, it seems.

Considering that the Batarians have multiple planets, element zero resources, mineral resources and a military strong enough that the Council wasn't necessarily willing to actually strong arm them (too much) pretty much shows that they have a military. Stop ignoring everything people have been saying. Even the Codex doesn't say much about their military since it is unknown. The wiki just uses info from planet codex and in game news. Its very difficult to gain a race's total military capabilities from that.

[bobdooly]

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...
You didn't get the purpousely extreme examples given in my first sentence. I said that the dreadnought could be any range of badass, but it is obviously on the lower end of the spectrum because the batarian military has to use proxy armies to do anything.

Tell me when the Batarians have used proxy armies more than once. You still haven't given proof of any of your assertians at all and any proof you had I quickly disproved it using the same source.  

The Alliance wouldn't attack the batairans because they're not a major threat. If a bee stung you, would you track it down to its hive and wipe out every single bee in a 20 mile radius? It would be better for the batarians to attack the Alliance directly because a war would be more likely and it would ruin the Alliance for the reasons you stated. Except the pirates are more capable than the official military, it seems.

Considering that the Batarians have multiple planets, element zero resources, mineral resources and a military strong enough that the Council wasn't necessarily willing to actually strong arm them (too much) pretty much shows that they have a military. Stop ignoring everything people have been saying. Even the Codex doesn't say much about their military since it is unknown. The wiki just uses info from planet codex and in game news. Its very difficult to gain a race's total military capabilities from that.

So stop saying they're good. I'm just saying how it looks. They look like crap.

Proxy armies more than once? Ever since the Alliance came around. Planet slave raids.

[1136342t54_]

bobdooly wrote...

So stop saying they're good. I'm just saying how it looks. They look like crap.

Proxy armies more than once? Ever since the Alliance came around. Planet slave raids.

I just love how you point out the main part of my post like I'm ignoring it while you are claiming they suck by looking at a minority of batarian pirates and mercs. I'm using some actual reasonable estimates of their military tech without any bias. You on the other hand seem hell bent on making the Batarians seem like weaklings in every regard because of some HUMAN **** YEAH non sense.

They paid pirates and slavers off to scare the Alliance off their colonies not use them as an actual military force. By in directly paying pirates and slavers they wouldn't have to fight a war with a up and coming power that the Council seem to favor in the first place. That doesn't mean they don't have a military.

Also when have I said their military was good? I really want to know. I may have said good enough but that is in comparison to the certain situation. North Korea's military is good enough to cause a lot of damage to South Korea but is it necessarily good compared to a super power like the US?

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 03 septembre 2011 - 04:55 .

[Someone With Mass]

Why even care? The majority of them are more than likely dead, since the Reapers arrived in their part of the galaxy first.

[111987]

1136342t54 wrote...

111987 wrote...
The minute the Batarians use a WMD on a garden world, the Council assembles and smacks them own like the hand of God.

If it was wastefule for the Council to invade the Terminus systems at full peace time power then after the fight Sovereign it would be worse. There is a reason why no one invades the Terminus Systems.

They know that every other power their will fight you.

They wouldn't be invading the whole Terminus, they'd only be fighting the Batarians. Yes more than likely other factions will become involved, but if the Batarians are destroying garden worlds, the Council won't have a choice. Destroying a garden world is a BIG no no.

[The Baconer]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Why even care? The majority of them are more than likely dead, since the Reapers arrived in their part of the galaxy first.

And nothing of value was lost.

[1136342t54_]

111987 wrote...

They wouldn't be invading the whole Terminus, they'd only be fighting the Batarians. Yes more than likely other factions will become involved, but if the Batarians are destroying garden worlds, the Council won't have a choice. Destroying a garden world is a BIG no no.

Would it matter? It was quite obvious that invading one Terminus System by the Council is an attack on all of them. They hate the Council that much basically. I was just saying that it would be far more difficult this time around.

[DetailedSubset]

Amakiir wrote...

DetailedSubset wrote...

Amakiir wrote...

The turian 'fleet' that occupied Shanxi was a four ship patrol. The human fleet that counter attacked was much larger. Ship for ship the turians were far superior.

The fleet that operated Shanxi was a full and proper fleet.
The patrol ships destroyed an expedition sent through the Shanxi-Theta relay thus starting the war. The Commander of Shanxi sent out a retalitory force which destroyed the Turian patrol, the Turian responce was to send a fleet to capture Shanxi, this fleet was then in turn routed by the Human Alliance Second Fleet.

You need to brush up on your Future History.

I'm well aware of the wiki version. Unfortunately the old forums are closed, so I can't pull up the numerous discussions that Mr. L'Etoile participated in on the subject. Here is the in game codex version of the fcw atleast.

The codex entry doesn't change what I've written it's just more vague, the entry on the Wiki uses information from the comics and the codex combined and given the unusualy strict editing rules on the wiki it's all but gaurenteed to be accurate.

[1136342t54_]

DetailedSubset wrote...
The codex entry doesn't change what I've written it's just more vague, the entry on the Wiki uses information from the comics and the codex combined and given the unusualy strict editing rules on the wiki it's all but gaurenteed to be accurate.

To be more accurate the Turians used a task force to take Shanxi. The SA used nearly their entire fleet to take out a Task force.

[DetailedSubset]

1136342t54 wrote...

DetailedSubset wrote...
The codex entry doesn't change what I've written it's just more vague, the entry on the Wiki uses information from the comics and the codex combined and given the unusualy strict editing rules on the wiki it's all but gaurenteed to be accurate.

To be more accurate the Turians used a task force to take Shanxi. The SA used nearly their entire fleet to take out a Task force.

Where is this task force mentioned in any sources? Mass Effect: Evolution says a fleet as does the Wiki and the codex is ambigious.

[1136342t54_]

DetailedSubset wrote...

Where is this task force mentioned in any sources? Mass Effect: Evolution says a fleet as does the Wiki and the codex is ambigious.

Codex says a Turian task force (I will have to read it again) wiki never specifies a fleet and Evolution seems to be told from a more human point of view. A Turian task force is still a fleet but not a very large one at all. I would expect something like 50 ships not the 200 ships humanity sent to stop them.

[DetailedSubset]

1136342t54 wrote...

DetailedSubset wrote...

Where is this task force mentioned in any sources? Mass Effect: Evolution says a fleet as does the Wiki and the codex is ambigious.

Codex says a Turian task force (I will have to read it again) wiki never specifies a fleet and Evolution seems to be told from a more human point of view. A Turian task force is still a fleet but not a very large one at all. I would expect something like 50 ships not the 200 ships humanity sent to stop them.

 codex entry is there

[darknoon5]

Honestly, half the posters in this thread (read, 90% of the people who vocally hate a fictional race based on the actions of a few individuals) are a great showcase of BSN stupidity.

Anybody who uses "ghey" and "Niggur" in their vocabulary doesn't deserve attention.

To answer the original question, the Batarians aren't as strong as any of the council races, largely due to infighting. As has been said. That said, they still have an organized military, including some kind of N7 equivalent, and at least one dreadnought. Oh, and the leviathan of dis could severely increase their military power, assuming it isn't just an easter egg.

Either way, they weren't strong enough to withstand the reapers, unsurprisingly.

Modifié par darknoon5, 03 septembre 2011 - 06:26 .

[1136342t54_]

DetailedSubset wrote...

 codex entry is there

I think I just personally compared it to a task force since the Turians themselves saw it as a police action and would only send a small fleet to deal with humanity. We weren't that strong pound for pound and I remember one of the devs (a while ago) saying that the Turian ships were better than humans we just had better carriers and superior numbers in certain battles.

[Kolgen1227]

111987 wrote...

The level of tech is pretty much the same between all the races by this point. Even if it isn't, it has to be pretty close. Plus the three races you said are the Council races and thus the most powerful races in the galaxy. The Quarians are also pretty much a race of engineers. Batarians are not a council race nor have they been stated to be technologically adept.

you are forgetting the discussion with Garrus when he talks about his team, not sure on the exact quote, (and a batarian who could hack any system ever made) hmm, sounds like they can be very tech savey. if someone knows the exact quote please feel free to put it.

[1136342t54_]

Kolgen1227 wrote...

you are forgetting the discussion with Garrus when he talks about his team, not sure on the exact quote, (and a batarian who could hack any system ever made) hmm, sounds like they can be very tech savey. if someone knows the exact quote please feel free to put it.

That Batarian was like the Tali of his group. He was probably former Batarian SIU.

[VaultingFrog]

I find this amusing. People who hate the Batarians are using Balak as an example (or more accurately his quotes) and the people who are "defending" the Batarians (though more or less just being realistic) dont have a whole lot to back up their argument (though neither side does in actuality).

Let me start with Balak. He is a terrorist correct? Have none of you even considered that it might just be the arrogant posturing of a self proclaimed warlord as we have seen in many instances in ME? Does it not occur to you that his opinion of the Batarian people and their military could be even slightly skewed by his ego in thinking that "they need me to do this..."? I am suprised that anybody is taking those comments seriously.

Fact of the matter is the only creditable evidence is the codex entries of the single dreadnought, the arms manufacture and the mention of their commando/military training styles. That being said, they are not bound to Council rules and could have substantially more than what is currently known. Yes it is pure speculation however it is not impossible.

More to the point the use of "pirates and terrorists" to attack other species is brilliant. It allows them not only to attack other species with out fear of reprisal but keeps their own numbers hidden and prevents casualties to their forces. Basically they are using those "pirates and terrorists" as expendable troops much like slaves being sent before the actual army.

Personally I find that you people are so biased that nobody can be right except for you. But that is typical over the internet. In all I see nothing but pure speculation on both sides of the argument and only one fact being presented (the codex entries). I would say you all should be ashamed at yourselves but I know that will never happen so I will simply bid you good hunting on your fruitless quests to prove your point.

[1136342t54_]

 Vaulting Frog you are using the same argument that the side supporting the point that the Batarians have military. You are essentially saying your own point is speculation:P

[armass]

1136342t54 wrote...

bobdooly wrote...

So stop saying they're good. I'm just saying how it looks. They look like crap.

Proxy armies more than once? Ever since the Alliance came around. Planet slave raids.

I just love how you point out the main part of my post like I'm ignoring it while you are claiming they suck by looking at a minority of batarian pirates and mercs. I'm using some actual reasonable estimates of their military tech without any bias. You on the other hand seem hell bent on making the Batarians seem like weaklings in every regard because of some HUMAN **** YEAH non sense.

They paid pirates and slavers off to scare the Alliance off their colonies not use them as an actual military force. By in directly paying pirates and slavers they wouldn't have to fight a war with a up and coming power that the Council seem to favor in the first place. That doesn't mean they don't have a military.

Also when have I said their military was good? I really want to know. I may have said good enough but that is in comparison to the certain situation. North Korea's military is good enough to cause a lot of damage to South Korea but is it necessarily good compared to a super power like the US?

Believe it or not, North Korea actually has the 4th largest army in the world, and because of the cultural and media brainwashing from the birth, they are fanatical and almost religious in their relationship to their country and it's tyrannical leader(to them he's basically next from God). Plus they have nukes. This makes them very dangerous.

I don't know how large army and fleets batarians have, but it is sure to be more than just a couple of slaver and pirate groups that wage proxy war and raids. And they have planet killing weapons for sure, since they are not restricted by any conventions.

Modifié par armass, 03 septembre 2011 - 07:46 .

[1136342t54_]

armass wrote...

Believe it or not, North Korea actually has the 4th largest army in the world, and because of the cultural and media brainwashing from the birth, they are fanatical and almost religious in their relationship to their country and it's tyrannical leader(to them he's basically next from God). Plus they have nukes. This makes them very dangerous.

I don't know how large army and fleets batarians have, but it is sure to be more than just a couple of slaver and pirate groups that wage proxy war and raids. And they have planet killing weapons for sure, since they are not restricted by any conventions.

No kidding I know enough about North Korea to know that they have a large military but compare it with a nation like ours we would be able to take their military out with superior tech, weaponry, equipment and training. It will just be more difficult than Iraq.