72 réponses à ce sujet

[BluSoldier]

 Hey guys,
    As I'm sure you all know, Arrival was a very emotional DLC.  As Shepard, you have to crash an asteriod into a mass relay, killing hundreds of thousands of Batarians.  Yes, I know that many of you have no sympathy for Batarians, but here me out.  In the mass effect one DLC, Bring down the sky,  Shepard's objective is to prevent an asteroid from chrashing into a human planet, which would kill millions of humans.  As I was playing Arrival, it almost made me feel like a terorist, just like Balak.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________Bring Down The Sky__________________________________________

-Humans are doing asteroid research
-Batarians attack the asteroid and pillage the base
-Balak goes nuts and decides to crash the asteroid into a Human planet Killing millions
-3 Fusion torches activated by batarians and later deactivated by Shepard, saving millions of Humans.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
____________________________________Arrival__________________________________________________

-Humans are doing anti-Reaper research
-Batarians Capture human research leader (Justified becuase humans are not meant to be in Batarian space)
-Shepard breaks into a Batarian federal prison and breaks human leader out (illigal assault &murder of prison guards)
-Shepard and research leader go back to asteroid base and shepard finds out leader is indoctrinated and has already cancelled her research
-Shepard goes around killing more humans, and eventually activates 3 fusion torches to propell the asteroid into a mass relay, killing hundreds of thousands batarians.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________Conclusion______________________________________________
I understand that Shepard's actions in Arrival are necesary do to the reapers, but does that warrant terrorism?  Balak wanted to destroy the human planet becuase he thought he was doing what was best for his people, just like how shepard is doing what he thinks is best for his.  Both do this by attempting to crash an asteroid into thier intended target (with 3 almost identical fusion torches), and kill many, many innocent civilians.  I know that stopping the reapers is what is most important, but how much of our humanity our we willing to give up.
________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________Bioware________________________________________________
I think Bioware wanted to make ME1 players feel like Balak in this DLC.  The whole time I was thinking to myself, how am I any better?  Bioware, congradulations on making a DLC that not only referenced a previous one, but puts the player on the other side of the conflict.  BRAVO!!!!!!!!
_________________________________________________________________________________________
______________________________Exhibit 1___________________________________________________

images.wikia.com/masseffect/images/0/06/FusionTorches.png: Me1 Fusion Torches
www.youtube.com/watch:Skip to 25 seconds for fusion torches.

Modifié par BluSoldier, 03 septembre 2011 - 04:57 .

[DeathDragon185]

mind=blown

[Apocsapel91]

DeathDragon185 wrote...

ming=blown

Fixed.

OT: I just noticed that.  I haven't played ME1 in a long time so I never really noticed this.

[BluSoldier]

Okay, so it's not exactly 3 torches, but the concept is pretty much the same.

[111987]

Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

[UltimaRai]

Shepard has a reason and can even have moral comfort for what he did.
Shepard can try to warn them, whereas Balak doesn't.
Balak does it to exact revenge, Shepard does it to try and delay reapers so the rest of the Universe has time to escape.
Also if Shepard didn't destroy the Mass Relay, the Reapers would've gotta to those Batarians and they would've still died.

Modifié par UltimaRai, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:06 .

[BluSoldier]

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I undesrstand that Sheoard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

[UltimaRai]

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I undesrstand that Sheoard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

Sacrifice hundreds of thousands, but to save an even larger amount.

Modifié par UltimaRai, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:11 .

[BluSoldier]

I'm not going to say that Shepard is evil or anything like that, but the way his plan was executed was almost identical to Balak's.

[111987]

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I undesrstand that Sheoard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

Would you rather Shepard had not done anything and stood idly by as trillions died?

EDIT: I agree though that the parallels are interesting. I just disagree with the idea that what Shepard did was terrorism, or on the same moral level as Balak.

Modifié par 111987, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[BluSoldier]

111987 wrote...

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I understand that Shepard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

Would you rather Shepard had not done anything and stood idly by as trillions died?

I am not saying that Shep's actions are immoral, just eirily similar to Balak's.

[UltimaRai]

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Would you rather Shepard had not done anything and stood idly by as trillions died?

I am not saying that Shep's actions are immoral, just eirily similar to Balak's.

Well it wasn't exact him that thought up of the meteor plan but his plan to see it through, BUT he can try and alert the civilians.

So the Meteor plan is similar to Balak but it would be Kenson that has a similar plan, not Shepard.

[111987]

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I understand that Shepard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

Would you rather Shepard had not done anything and stood idly by as trillions died?

I am not saying that Shep's actions are immoral, just eirily similar to Balak's.

Maybe I misunderstood you. This line you wrote implied you thought it was immoral though

"I know that stopping the reapers is what is most important, but how much of our humanity our we willing to give up?"

[BluSoldier]

111987 wrote...

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I understand that Shepard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

Would you rather Shepard had not done anything and stood idly by as trillions died?

I am not saying that Shep's actions are immoral, just eirily similar to Balak's.

Maybe I misunderstood you. This line you wrote implied you thought it was immoral though

"I know that stopping the reapers is what is most important, but how much of our humanity our we willing to give up?"

Yeah, I do understand what you are saying.  I hope yuo understand that just becuase it was for the greater good, does not excuse it from being an atrocity.  Even if it was a necesary evil.

[Sgt Stryker]

"Sometimes thousands must die so that millions may live."

300,000 incinerated batarians are better than 300,000 indoctrinate batarians.

[OmegaXI]

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I understand that Shepard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

Would you rather Shepard had not done anything and stood idly by as trillions died?

I am not saying that Shep's actions are immoral, just eirily similar to Balak's.

Maybe I misunderstood you. This line you wrote implied you thought it was immoral though

"I know that stopping the reapers is what is most important, but how much of our humanity our we willing to give up?"

Yeah, I do understand what you are saying.  I hope yuo understand that just becuase it was for the greater good, does not excuse it from being an atrocity.  Even if it was a necesary evil.

Well yes it does excuse Shepard from commiting an atrocity. Its war people die, sometimes a couple hundred thousand
batarians have to die so trillions can live. Besides the Reapers would have killed them anyways, better they die by Shepards hand (pushing a buttton) than by the Reapers husks and lasers. And I'm sure they had it coming

[111987]

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I understand that Shepard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

Would you rather Shepard had not done anything and stood idly by as trillions died?

I am not saying that Shep's actions are immoral, just eirily similar to Balak's.

Maybe I misunderstood you. This line you wrote implied you thought it was immoral though

"I know that stopping the reapers is what is most important, but how much of our humanity our we willing to give up?"

Yeah, I do understand what you are saying.  I hope yuo understand that just becuase it was for the greater good, does not excuse it from being an atrocity.  Even if it was a necesary evil.

Don't worry, I do agree that it was a necessary evil. If faced with the choice though, I would sacrifice the Batarians every time.

Modifié par 111987, 03 septembre 2011 - 05:49 .

[littlezack]

You have a choice not to kill all those Batarians. It results in the Reapers winning and a Game Over, but you have a choice.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Bring down the sky, for the radio station.

[KotorEffect3]

The difference is motive. Balak is a douchebag that wanted to kill millions. Shepard on the other hand wanted to save trillions.

[KingNothing125]

I see what you're getting at, holmes... but the fact that the Reapers are coming in Arrival pretty much trumps anything else. Yeah killing 305,000 Batarians is pretty dickish, but they're going to die either way. Either they get vaporized by a supernova sized mass relay explosion, or they get reaped by the Reapers.

Balak had a choice; he could have just walked away and no harm would have come to Terra Nova or any Batarian colony. Shepard can't just walk away, he has to kill the Batarians. His hand is forced, because if he doesn't, the Reapers will reap the entire galaxy.

[Johnny34]

Was definitely the moral choice and right thing to do. a hundred thousand dead to save trillions more. the hundreds of thousands of batarians would have been the first to go when the reapers came anyway.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Johnny34 wrote...

Was definitely the moral choice and right thing to do. a hundred thousand dead to save trillions more. the hundreds of thousands of batarians would have been the first to go when the reapers came anyway.

It wasn't even a 'Kill one to save many' decision, since they're dead anyway. Out of the two choices, killing them in an earth-shattering kaboom or having the Reapers reap them the explosion is more humane all around.

The one thing that annoyed me greatly about Arrival was when you're about to warn the system to evacuate and Kenson pops up, whining like a loon about how you ruined her plans. That action could've legitmately saved lives, and not only did you not enable the pop-up blocker on the communications console - you're not even allowed to try again after she shuts up!

[Inutaisho7996]

BluSoldier wrote...

111987 wrote...


Hey, if you don't want to make the sacrifice, you don't have to. It's not like there will be any negative repercussions if you don't sacrifice those Batarians...

Oh, wait.

www.youtube.com/watch

I undesrstand that Sheoard's motive logically more sound that Balak's, but I would like to point out that Balak only killed a hundred or so, while shepard killed hundreds of thousands.

Terra Nova had a population of 4.4 million. Balak was going to kill 4.4 million people because humans beat the batarians to colonizing the Skyllian Verge, and now there's a petty feud between the two species. Shepard killed 304,492 batarians to save trillions of lives.

Modifié par Inutaisho7996, 03 septembre 2011 - 06:16 .

[BluSoldier]

Shepard definitely had the MORAL high ground and reasons, but their ACTIONS are near identical. I d not support Shepard's breaking into the prison, however.