110 réponses à ce sujet

[ODST 3]

Why isn't she working on ME 3? She did good things for the franchise with ME 2.

[Han Shot First]

Listening to reviews and fans

..but hopefully with a heavy dose of salt. Fans are wrong as often as they are right, particularly when it involves speculation over a product that hasn't been released yet.  And they love to b1tch

Modifié par Han Shot First, 04 septembre 2011 - 01:44 .

[Saedius Asicus]

Han Shot First wrote...

Listening to reviews and fans

..but hopefully with a heavy dose of salt. Fans are wrong as often as they are right, particularly when it involves speculation over a product that hasn't been released yet.  And they love to b1tch

Amen.  Correct, this one is.

[Taritu]

ODST 3 wrote...

Why isn't she working on ME 3? She did good things for the franchise with ME 2.

Not sure. She did get a significantly better title at her new employer and she may have wanted to work on a different type of game or to be overall lead, rather than just gameplay lead.

[CroGamer002]

Nice.

[Terror_K]

To be honest, I was never a big fan of Christina's goals, approach and overall mindset with Mass Effect.

[Phaedon]

Han Shot First wrote...

Listening to reviews and fans

..but hopefully with a heavy dose of salt. Fans are wrong as often as they are right, particularly when it involves speculation over a product that hasn't been released yet.  And they love to b1tch

Yes, yes they do.

[Crackseed]

ODST 3 wrote...

Why isn't she working on ME 3? She did good things for the franchise with ME 2.

Christina left Bioware and is working for RIOT Games as a designer.

[Phaedon]

Christina was definitely around when those concepts were discussed, decided and partially developed.

[azerSheppard]

marshalleck wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

-Her pile of dice stand out as declaring she's never played an RPG as well.  She has a pile of 6-sided dice.  Except PnP RPG's use 4 sided,  6 sided,  8 sided,  10 sided,  12 sided,  and 20 sided.

Hero system from Champions (and assorted settings) uses 6-sided die only, and it's one of the more complex PNP RPG systems out there.

I think the DA PnP uses several 6 sided ones. Haven't got around to play it though, too much whitewolf going around right now. Trying to become a decent storyteller xd

[Dionkey]

Terror_K wrote...

To be honest, I was never a big fan of Christina's goals, approach and overall mindset with Mass Effect.

I couldn't agree with this more.

[Gabriel S.]

Wow, that Prezi thing is AMAZING!

[Arppis]

Polish Everything-part is true from gameplay perspective too, it seems. It runs a lot smoother and seems to be playing better now.

[Ostagar2011]

Christina's decisions will, in time, be seen as a major turning point for BioWare. Alongside Dragon Age 2.

People here are too quick to proclaim that what she did with ME1 - ME2 was Awsome because the shooting was more fluid. The reason we cared about the shooting was because the story and RPG aspects (eg meaningful choices/consequences) of ME1 had us all hooked and 'bought into' the universe. If ME2 had come out without an ME1, it would probably have been seen as a decent, but not Great game, and probably been mostly forgotten by now. The reason most of us are still here is the magic that still lingers from the RPG elements of ME1 (however clunky the rest of ME1 was). I think Christina did not understand this.

[Phaedon]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Christina's decisions will, in time, be seen as a major turning point for BioWare. Alongside Dragon Age 2.

People here are too quick to proclaim that what she did with ME1 - ME2 was Awsome because the shooting was more fluid. The reason we cared about the shooting was because the story and RPG aspects (eg meaningful choices/consequences) of ME1 had us all hooked and 'bought into' the universe. If ME2 had come out without an ME1, it would probably have been seen as a decent, but not Great game, and probably been mostly forgotten by now. The reason most of us are still here is the magic that still lingers from the RPG elements of ME1 (however clunky the rest of ME1 was). I think Christina did not understand this.

Soooo...!

You are saying that ME1 was a great RPG? And that this was the reason that you liked it? 

Then again you say that ME1 had 'meaningful choices and consequences, etc' and that Christina has something to do with that.

Modifié par Phaedon, 04 septembre 2011 - 06:24 .

[alex90c]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Christina's decisions will, in time, be seen as a major turning point for BioWare. Alongside Dragon Age 2.

People here are too quick to proclaim that what she did with ME1 - ME2 was Awsome because the shooting was more fluid. The reason we cared about the shooting was because the story and RPG aspects (eg meaningful choices/consequences) of ME1 had us all hooked and 'bought into' the universe. If ME2 had come out without an ME1, it would probably have been seen as a decent, but not Great game, and probably been mostly forgotten by now. The reason most of us are still here is the magic that still lingers from the RPG elements of ME1 (however clunky the rest of ME1 was). I think Christina did not understand this.

Actually, I played ME2 first and thought it was great.

[Brenon Holmes]

You might want to be careful of ascribing everything to one specific person. :happy: (Public-ish figures are easy to single out, I know! However...)

On the gameplay team we have some folks who focus on specific areas and drive most of the decisions, iterations, and change for those areas, Preston as the Lead Designer provides direction and gives feedback and suggestions...

I think to suggest that one person is/was responsible for everything is a bit of an overstatement.

... and that's not even touching on the rest of the team (character art, concepting, animation, cine anim, cine design, level design, QA, etc)...  all of whom have a rather large impact on what we're doing and where we're heading as a project.

(sorry, not really answering your question... but just wanted to address one of the sort of implied assumptions in the discussion :happy:)

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 04 septembre 2011 - 06:32 .

[Gorosaur]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Christina's decisions will, in time, be seen as a major turning point for BioWare. Alongside Dragon Age 2.

People here are too quick to proclaim that what she did with ME1 - ME2 was Awsome because the shooting was more fluid. The reason we cared about the shooting was because the story and RPG aspects (eg meaningful choices/consequences) of ME1 had us all hooked and 'bought into' the universe. If ME2 had come out without an ME1, it would probably have been seen as a decent, but not Great game, and probably been mostly forgotten by now. The reason most of us are still here is the magic that still lingers from the RPG elements of ME1 (however clunky the rest of ME1 was). I think Christina did not understand this.

I stayed around because of the story and the characters, which to be honest I still loved in ME2.

[JeffZero]

I found plenty of lingering magic in ME2.

[ODST 3]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Christina's decisions will, in time, be seen as a major turning point for BioWare. Alongside Dragon Age 2.

People here are too quick to proclaim that what she did with ME1 - ME2 was Awsome because the shooting was more fluid. The reason we cared about the shooting was because the story and RPG aspects (eg meaningful choices/consequences) of ME1 had us all hooked and 'bought into' the universe. If ME2 had come out without an ME1, it would probably have been seen as a decent, but not Great game, and probably been mostly forgotten by now. The reason most of us are still here is the magic that still lingers from the RPG elements of ME1 (however clunky the rest of ME1 was). I think Christina did not understand this.

Wrong because unlike Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2 was a great game, an improvement on the first.

[Gatt9]

Ostagar2011 wrote...

Christina's decisions will, in time, be seen as a major turning point for BioWare. Alongside Dragon Age 2.

People here are too quick to proclaim that what she did with ME1 - ME2 was Awsome because the shooting was more fluid. The reason we cared about the shooting was because the story and RPG aspects (eg meaningful choices/consequences) of ME1 had us all hooked and 'bought into' the universe. If ME2 had come out without an ME1, it would probably have been seen as a decent, but not Great game, and probably been mostly forgotten by now. The reason most of us are still here is the magic that still lingers from the RPG elements of ME1 (however clunky the rest of ME1 was). I think Christina did not understand this.

It's actually a massive problem in the Industry at this point,  not just limited to Bioware or Christina.

History Lesson:  In the late 90's video gaming hit it's critical point.  Prior to this,  it was primarily the hobby of children,  but the 80's children grew up and still gamed,  and the 90's children were gaming,  increasing the market enourmously.  It went from a niche market to "Big buisness".  Major media names started gobbling up gaming companies.  Disney,  Fox,  Time-Warner,  Hasbro,  and others.  At this point,  3D graphics were introduced,  drastically increasing the cost of development because Art teams suddenly outnumbered everyone else on the project combined.  Studios required publishers to fund them,  they couldn't go it alone.  Publishers were only interested in what made the most money.

So the Industry coalesced down to a subset of the gaming genres,  because Publishers were only interested in the biggest yields.  To justify it,  in the late 90's/early 00's,  the marketing campaigns condemned the genres that didn't traditionally sell the very highest numbers of units.  "Turn-based is old,  (Insert action game) is an RPG!".

/.historylesson

Problem is,  Herd Mentality.  When the gaming press and the PR people spout that out often enough,  some very significant number of people believe it.  Look here on these boards...

-TB games were a technological limitation!  (Except they weren't,  RT was present on the C64)
-TB PnP games were like that because of dice!  (Except they weren't,  it was a concious choice,  all dice could be rolled simultaneously)
-Games with a story and choices are an RPG!  (Except there's myriad counter-examples of games that feature both,  and are not RPG's)
-TB games won't sell!  (Pokemon,  Civilization)

It becomes a critical issue when you have these people who were brought up in a environment where marketing departments tried to manipulate the public into buying these games because of buzzwords,  and they actually believe that the marketing is true.  Reread those quotes,  but picture them in an article pushing a Starcraft-clone,  or Oblivion,  and it becomes evident that the intention isn't a statement of fact,  but a statement of PR.

The incoming software engineers,  and artists,  have little knowledge of what does and doesn't work outside of a decade of marketing.  Fallout 3's boards demonstrated this in spades,  the Developers there wholeheartedly believe that pretty much all of the concepts of an RPG have no point other than having a level number somewhere.  Norman displays it,  and she wouldn't have gotten far if the rest of the dev team hadn't drank the marketing dept's kool-aid.

Even the people here on these boards,  and others,  readily display it.  Watch a PR article come out that uses some key-buzzword,  watch the boards as people suddenly start using it as if it has some meaning and describes something fantastically new.  "Cinematic!  Immersive!",  you'll see people swearing up and down that X is fantastically incredible because of that buzzword,  and that all games should now have that buzzword.

Which is absolutely amazing,  because I doubt very highly that when these very same people see a movie trailer that shouts "Immerse yourself in the world of X",  and other buzzwords,  that they're sitting there doing the exact same thing.

It's only in gaming that PR pieces dramatically affect the direction of the Industry.

The reason why is fairly obvious.  The people drawn to gaming,  especially to the boards and to development,  are those most likely to have issues with social interaction,  and least likely to have a healthy group to identify with.  So they create their identity through gaming,  and enter Herd Mentality state,  where they have a instinctive need to buy into whatever the perceived leaders tell them is true,  for fear of losing their "Social group" and failing a major psychological need.

http://www.wired.com...mer-self-image/

Hence why we've got everything is a Shooter,  mislabelled games,  and massive fighting inside of the gaming community that actually was once united.  Publishers marketing departments want only the very largest returns,  people are meeting their "Social need for belonging to a group" though gaming,  they'll buy into whatever the perceived leaders tell them to maintain that identity,  and they'll fight tooth-and-nail against all who threaten the "Leaders" outlined course.

[littlezack]

For those who aren't familiar with Gatt and don't want to read his essay, let me sum up his point - they rarely change, so it's simple.

-The industry is being deluded to pacify for casuals.
-It's all about money.
-It was better before.
-I know what an RPG is and others don't.

[Bozorgmehr 2.0]

That's quite the conspiracy theory you got there Gatt. Did those "PR ghosts", "Leaders", or whatever they are, also assassinated JFK?

[Il Divo]

littlezack wrote...

For those who aren't familiar with Gatt and don't want to read his essay, let me sum up his point - they rarely change, so it's simple.

-The industry is being deluded to pacify for casuals.
-It's all about money.
-It was better before.
-I know what an RPG is and others don't.

And you didn't even need an essay to explain all that, did you?

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 septembre 2011 - 07:40 .