43 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaldor Silverwand]

 Granted that NWN2 is based on D&D 3.5. I know this. Even so, I was recently reading the AD&D 2nd edition "The Complete Book of Elves" which has a section specifically detailing the elves of the variou D&D realms, including the Forgotten Realm.  According to this section:

"The elves of Toril do not follow the standards of most other worlds... While these elves possess the standard elf abilities, their appearance is markedly different. These elves are of human height..." (The Book of Elves, p. 25)

I certainly understand that many things changed between AD&D and 3.5, but the height of Toril elves seems like an odd thing to deliberately change in the rulebooks. Unless someone can cite an authoritative source, I think the elves of NWN2 have been, well, short-changed.

Why do I care? Well, for the campaign I am currently working on I am going to include the drow enclave T'lindhet. If the elves of Toril are really supposed to be human height then I may populate the city with human sized drow rather than using the standard blueprints included in NWN2.

Regards

[kamal_]

That's retconned in 4e. Human height elves are "eladrin". Eladrin are totally not elves. <_<

Also keep in mind the stock nwn2 human male is 2 meters tall, just below 6 feet 7 inches. The stock nwn2 elf may actually be a normal human height, but apparently the Sword Coast is populated by humans who crossbred with giants.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

The dnd4 wikia page on elves says that elves are on the average 5'4" to 6' tall. That sounds like average human height to me. The human blueprints in NWN2 are clearly too tall as you say so maybe that is the bigger issue (sorry).

[kevL]

- not sure if you consider this relevant, Silver

but if my calculations are accurate JRRTolkien stated that elves that got to the Holy Land were > 7' tall, and those who stayed behind, the further behind they were the shorter they got ... Drow stayed way far behind hehe


then again, there's always Feanor to consider. ( in some way hope this helps )

ps. "Make your own myths or someone will make them for you." .....

[Seagloom]

It was an oversight. One of the Obsidian devs commented on the old boards that they realized Toril's elves were taller too late to correct it. Since NWN2's monster designs were lifted from the Monster Manual, it stands to reason Obsidian also modeled elves after standard D&D books. Elves are clearly shorter than humans in those.

On a side note, drow are shorter than elves on average. Although a six foot drow is not impossible.

[kamal_]

Then they were doubly wrong. The stock nwn2 elf male is 1.8 meters, or 5 feet 11 inches. The stock elf female is 1.73 meters, 5 feet 9 inches. (this is taller than the modern real world human average). In other words, nwn2 elves are the "correct" height, but humans are way too tall and Obsidian thought the elven height was wrong when it's actually correct.

Incidentally, the default human female is 1.97 meters, 6 feet 6 inches.

[The Fred]

I always thought that elves were taller than humans in real life.

[Dorateen]

And dwarves were created perfectly, in Moradin's image.
Harumph!

[foil-]

I've always sort of wanted to make it my personal mission to make elves about 1 head shorter throughout the realms.

90x180http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5186874/ELF_HEAD2.jpg[/img]

Modifié par foil-, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:57 .

[_Knightmare_]

Aren't drow supposed to be shorter than the standard elf to begin with? Seems logical so that they can fit better into underground passageways.

[kamal_]

_Knightmare_ wrote...

Aren't drow supposed to be shorter than the standard elf to begin with? Seems logical so that they can fit better into underground passageways.

They are, but teenage male fantasy has made them taller.

[_Knightmare_]

Yeah I thought so. Just looked in the 3rd ed Forgotten Realms book. It says there under the Drow section "They also tend to be smaller and thinner than most elves."

[Seagloom]

kamal_ wrote...

Then they were doubly wrong. The stock nwn2 elf male is 1.8 meters, or 5 feet 11 inches. The stock elf female is 1.73 meters, 5 feet 9 inches. (this is taller than the modern real world human average). In other words, nwn2 elves are the "correct" height, but humans are way too tall and Obsidian thought the elven height was wrong when it's actually correct.

Incidentally, the default human female is 1.97 meters, 6 feet 6 inches.

I can understand why they still felt the heights were off. Regardless of what NWN2's files note for various humanoid heights, they do not appear all that tall. Human females do not look anywhere near 6'6" on screen. I usually bump the slider way up so my characters will be as tall, if not taller than most of the human males she runs into. Otherwise she is always somewhat shorter, and not all that tall in comparison to her environment either.

foil- wrote...

I've always sort of wanted to make it my personal mission to make elves about 1 head shorter throughout the realms.

My sorceress wishes to sign up for this most noble of causes.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Umm...being American, I think the meters in NWN2 are actually yards. So that 2 'meter' tall human male is actually 1.83m.

[The Fred]

Umm... being not American, I think they should be "metres".
;-)

[foil-]

Ummm...being sort of American, continentally speaking, I couldn't give a rats ***. 
:-P


But I'm leaning towards the yards thing.

Modifié par foil-, 04 septembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[Dann-J]

I'm surprised that the metric system made it to Abeir-Toril at all. It hasn't even made it to the U.S. yet.

I myself measure everything in potrzebies.

[foil-]

Ya, metric sounds very out of place in a fantasy setting. Star Trek yes, Tolkein no.

Not sure what a more archaic sounding unit of measure is. Furlong? Span?

http://www.hemyockca....uk/measure.htm

Modifié par foil-, 05 septembre 2011 - 09:56 .

[Skadison]

Lets hope if you make a NWN 3 this is corrected.

[foil-]

Skadison wrote...

Lets hope if you make a NWN 3 this is corrected.

I agree.  This is a grevious insult and should be soley responsible for sinking any game's metacritic score straight to zero.  And I expect historically accurate bugbears from now on also.

[dunniteowl]

Hands, Feet, even inches and yards were all being used in such a setting, though they were not standardized and varied from region to region, depending on "who's" hand, foot or whatever it was they used to make a measurement. A rod is too long, because it's a unit of distance for travel. You might have run into a cubit. A possibility most likely might have been a yard, which comes from measuring cloth. It used to originally be a "cloth yard" which is why you'll read in some books, "He nocked a clothyard shaft to his bow, fit for war or hunting." That told you it was a longer than average arrow.

I would love to have a database that includes a set unit of measure by whatever you call it, have a mathematical basis for it, and then allow that to calculate the difference between 20 furlongs, 6 rods and 7 stadia. Wouldn't that be cool?

[Shaughn78]

This is a very easily corrected problem.

All scaling of playable races is done in the appearance.2da. All the models are the same size. Currently humans have a scale of 1.0 and elves 0.9. If the human appearance was changed to 0.9 then both elves and humans would be the same size and humans would no longer be 6'6" to 6'10".

[kamal_]

You'd want to set elves to 1.0. Everything is scaled to default human height.

[darkling lithely]

I'm bothered by everyone's shoulders being so wide. Sure, there's the slidey thing in creation, but proportions stay the same. My dex heavy characters need narrower shoulders. My magic-users should be frail. They all look like they are wearing shoulder pads. I hate football.

[foil-]

I bet you could tweak those proportions even more with the character editor to make them look more frail. Someone else will have to pipe in with the name of the editor. I haven't used it for a couple years now.

Modifié par foil-, 14 septembre 2011 - 12:18 .